Official Stephen Crichton signs with the Bulldogs 2024

[bradtalo]

If I were Gus I'd be throwing whatever I had to at Moses then whatever if left in the budget for a fullback from Latrell Mitchell down to Will Kennedy. No use getting Crichton if it costs us a top 7. There's a big gap from Moses and Williams to the 7's below them. With fullbacks not so much

 

[Lynchpin]

I was keen on Crichton, but anything close to a million is way overs. 800k tops and even that is too much for a centre,who thinks he might like fullback

We just paid Corey Allan (and we're still paying him) fullback money to play wing, centre, reggies, and rehab.
Actually, it's a similar story trying to turn Cotric into a Centre.
We can't (shouldn't) be paying Crichton Elite Fullback money on the chance he might make a go of it (I don't care what his junior pedigree is/was).
We can (should) be paying him Top Centre money (plus an opportunity to play and become a genuine Fullback), only if we think he is a top 5 Centre: I think he is more towards 6-10); which means $500k-ish, maybe up to $600k if you really, really think he is top 5 (but then for that money he probably stays at Panthers - and I hope he does).
If he comes over, ends up playing Fullback and does it well then future contracts will accommodate the new status and value.
If he comes over, and ends up just being a top 10 centre then you're paying for what you're getting, and that's fine - but no more massive overs on speculation.

 

[kmr07]

We just paid Corey Allan (and we're still paying him) fullback money to play wing, centre, reggies, and rehab.
Actually, it's a similar story trying to turn Cotric into a Centre.
We can't (shouldn't) be paying Crichton Elite Fullback money on the chance he might make a go of it (I don't care what his junior pedigree is/was).
We can (should) be paying him Top Centre money (plus an opportunity to play and become a genuine Fullback), only if we think he is a top 5 Centre: I think he is more towards 6-10); which means $500k-ish, maybe up to $600k if you really, really think he is top 5 (but then for that money he probably stays at Panthers - and I hope he does).
If he comes over, ends up playing Fullback and does it well then future contracts will accommodate the new status and value.
If he comes over, and ends up just being a top 10 centre then you're paying for what you're getting, and that's fine - but no more massive overs on speculation.

$500k for Allan is fullback money? Yes Allan definitely was not worth that, but fullback money is more around the $800k to $1M mark

 

[TwinTurbo]

We just paid Corey Allan (and we're still paying him) fullback money to play wing, centre, reggies, and rehab.
Actually, it's a similar story trying to turn Cotric into a Centre.
We can't (shouldn't) be paying Crichton Elite Fullback money on the chance he might make a go of it (I don't care what his junior pedigree is/was).
We can (should) be paying him Top Centre money (plus an opportunity to play and become a genuine Fullback), only if we think he is a top 5 Centre: I think he is more towards 6-10); which means $500k-ish, maybe up to $600k if you really, really think he is top 5 (but then for that money he probably stays at Panthers - and I hope he does).
If he comes over, ends up playing Fullback and does it well then future contracts will accommodate the new status and value.
If he comes over, and ends up just being a top 10 centre then you're paying for what you're getting, and that's fine - but no more massive overs on speculation.

Are we talking what’s in the Cap only (anything else is irrelevant)?
Are we talking Top 30 2022 Cap ($9.2m) or 2023 Cap ($11m)?
Rough rounding 2023 Cap = +20% (still 30 players and still have to spend 95%)

Using Zero Tackle numbers as they are easily accessible.

So if an elite Fullback (Tedesco, Trbojevic) was $1.1m in 2022 then it’s $1.3m in 2023.
Top centre (Manu, Staggs, Lomax) was $700k in 2022, then it’s $840k in 2023.
Crichton was on $600k in 2022, should be $700k to align with his pears and then $840k in 2023.

If (and that’s a very big IF) we had him on $840k in our Cap for 2023 than that’s top centre money, nowhere near elite Fullback money which would be $1.3m. Of course we could/should be talking 2024 Cap, which maybe even higher.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Lynchpin]

but fullback money is more around the $800k to $1M mark

According to SMH (so, grain of salt obviously, but...), average Fullback money (2022) :
* 1-5 (Excellent): $939,000
* 6-10 (Very Good): $595,000
* 11-15 (Good): $419,000
These figures are probably okay to work with, within a certain +/- (so good enough, for the sake of argument).

So yeah, I am going to say $500k is Fullback money, especially since Barrett (stupidly) bought him for that role.

I don't think even Allan's biggest fan on their most optimistic day, or Corey himself would claim to be an Excellent Fullback and therefore command "around the $800k to $1Mil mark"

 

[Lynchpin]

Are we talking what’s in the Cap only (anything else is irrelevant)?

Yep. Cap value only. "(anything else is irrelevant)" - indeed.

I get it. Take a peek around the comp and all players are worth "more". Because he's getting it, so should I. Unfortunately, the cap is finite (well, for some anyway). Sure, you can pay Manu-money for Crichton, but why would you?

Interestingly. Just on the Zero-tackle^ Roosters list for '23 (assuming $11mil "cap")
They have:
* 8 Players chewing up $5.6mil (so, $5,4mil to accommodate 22)
* Min wage of $150k x 22 = $3.3mil (so, now @ $8.9Mil)
* Leaves $1.1Mil (for amounts above $150k) to share amongst players like: Suaalii, Chricton, Radley, Walker - are any of these players going to be on only $425k ($1.1Mil / 4)? Which also assumes players like Allan (we didn't let him go for $150k), Butcher, Momirovski, Watson are only minimum wage.

^ I think these are more "gossip" numbers, based on reports/hearsay of what players are "earning", not necessarily what is declared under the cap.
Look at the Dogs (on Zero Tackle) - has TPJ on $925k. Thompson on $800k. I would wager a guess that neither of these figures is what is imposed on our cap.

 

[GA45]

According to SMH (so, grain of salt obviously, but...), average Fullback money (2022) :
* 1-5 (Excellent): $939,000
* 6-10 (Very Good): $595,000
* 11-15 (Good): $419,000
These figures are probably okay to work with, within a certain +/- (so good enough, for the sake of argument).

So yeah, I am going to say $500k is Fullback money, especially since Barrett (stupidly) bought him for that role.

I don't think even Allan's biggest fan on their most optimistic day, or Corey himself would claim to be an Excellent Fullback and therefore command "around the $800k to $1Mil mark"

@Flanagun

 

[hayes]

Yep. Cap value only. "(anything else is irrelevant)" - indeed.

I get it. Take a peek around the comp and all players are worth "more". Because he's getting it, so should I. Unfortunately, the cap is finite (well, for some anyway). Sure, you can pay Manu-money for Crichton, but why would you?

Interestingly. Just on the Zero-tackle^ Roosters list for '23 (assuming $11mil "cap")
They have:
* 8 Players chewing up $5.6mil (so, $5,4mil to accommodate 22)
* Min wage of $150k x 22 = $3.3mil (so, now @ $8.9Mil)
* Leaves $1.1Mil (for amounts above $150k) to share amongst players like: Suaalii, Chricton, Radley, Walker - are any of these players going to be on only $425k ($1.1Mil / 4)? Which also assumes players like Allan (we didn't let him go for $150k), Butcher, Momirovski, Watson are only minimum wage.

^ I think these are more "gossip" numbers, based on reports/hearsay of what players are "earning", not necessarily what is declared under the cap.
Look at the Dogs (on Zero Tackle) - has TPJ on $925k. Thompson on $800k. I would wager a guess that neither of these figures is what is imposed on our cap.

Brisbane were paying 200 to 250k last year

 

[TwinTurbo]

Yep. Cap value only. "(anything else is irrelevant)" - indeed.

I get it. Take a peek around the comp and all players are worth "more". Because he's getting it, so should I. Unfortunately, the cap is finite (well, for some anyway). Sure, you can pay Manu-money for Crichton, but why would you?

Interestingly. Just on the Zero-tackle^ Roosters list for '23 (assuming $11mil "cap")
They have:
* 8 Players chewing up $5.6mil (so, $5,4mil to accommodate 22)
* Min wage of $150k x 22 = $3.3mil (so, now @ $8.9Mil)
* Leaves $1.1Mil (for amounts above $150k) to share amongst players like: Suaalii, Chricton, Radley, Walker - are any of these players going to be on only $425k ($1.1Mil / 4)? Which also assumes players like Allan (we didn't let him go for $150k), Butcher, Momirovski, Watson are only minimum wage.

^ I think these are more "gossip" numbers, based on reports/hearsay of what players are "earning", not necessarily what is declared under the cap.
Look at the Dogs (on Zero Tackle) - has TPJ on $925k. Thompson on $800k. I would wager a guess that neither of these figures is what is imposed on our cap.

I think you may have missed a few things that are rather important THE CAP GOES UP BY 20% IN 2023 and there are STILL ONLY 30 PLAYERS and 95% OF THE CAP HAS TO BE SPENT.

There are only 2 choices, pay everyone (contracted and yet to be contracted) 20% more, which means increasing existing contracts OR maintain the contracted players on their existing amounts AND contract new signing on more than +20%.

Whatever the choices the $'s players get paid under the CAP has to increase by ~20%. The players know this, their agents know this and there is no escaping from it. A player/agent that was asking for $500k in 2022 will be asking for $600k in 2023/24.

We can debate forever who is worth what, and who is worth more or less than who, but the above is irrefutable.

We can't (shouldn't) be paying Crichton Elite Fullback money on the chance he might make a go of it (I don't care what his junior pedigree is/was).

I don't think anyone is suggesting we pay Crichton $1.3m, which is Elite Fullback money in 2023/24.
$600k is less than half Elite Fullback money and agruably $100k less than Elite Centre money.

We can (should) be paying him Top Centre money (plus an opportunity to play and become a genuine Fullback), only if we think he is a top 5 Centre: I think he is more towards 6-10); which means $500k-ish, maybe up to $600k if you really, really think he is top 5 (but then for that money he probably stays at Panthers - and I hope he does).

Crichton is already on $600k at Penrith in 2022, just to stay on par that needs to be $720k in 2023/24.

If he comes over, ends up playing Fullback and does it well then future contracts will accommodate the new status and value.
If he comes over, and ends up just being a top 10 centre then you're paying for what you're getting, and that's fine - but no more massive overs on speculation.

You need to lift your thinking by 20% to accommodate the 2023/24 Cap. If (yes "IF") we want Crichton then $600k is below his current rate (after allowing for the Cap increase), so we aren't getting him for that. Around $720k is same as he is on now (after allowing for the Cap increase), so we aren't getting him for that either. If it's $800k then that's $500k less than Elite Fullback money, a rather large chunk of change.


Always a Bulldog

 

[CMP]

Some of the élite players from what I understand are on % of the cap based contracts. I think both Turbo brothers & DCE are on % deals. I think Clearly is also

This will see any benefit with a bigger cap get gobbled up at some clubs

 

[TwinTurbo]

Some of the élite players from what I understand are on % of the cap based contracts. I think both Turbo brothers & DCE are on % deals. I think Clearly is also

This will see any benefit with a bigger cap get gobbled up at some clubs

That was Hasler way of avoiding the "non backloading" rule from the NRL. Not many others have followed that route that I have heard of.

Always a Bulldog

 

[flamebouyant]

Yep. Cap value only. "(anything else is irrelevant)" - indeed.

I get it. Take a peek around the comp and all players are worth "more". Because he's getting it, so should I. Unfortunately, the cap is finite (well, for some anyway). Sure, you can pay Manu-money for Crichton, but why would you?

Interestingly. Just on the Zero-tackle^ Roosters list for '23 (assuming $11mil "cap")
They have:
* 8 Players chewing up $5.6mil (so, $5,4mil to accommodate 22)
* Min wage of $150k x 22 = $3.3mil (so, now @ $8.9Mil)
* Leaves $1.1Mil (for amounts above $150k) to share amongst players like: Suaalii, Chricton, Radley, Walker - are any of these players going to be on only $425k ($1.1Mil / 4)? Which also assumes players like Allan (we didn't let him go for $150k), Butcher, Momirovski, Watson are only minimum wage.

^ I think these are more "gossip" numbers, based on reports/hearsay of what players are "earning", not necessarily what is declared under the cap.
Look at the Dogs (on Zero Tackle) - has TPJ on $925k. Thompson on $800k. I would wager a guess that neither of these figures is what is imposed on our cap.

Twin turbo has found his match. Lol good luck with your argument.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Twin turbo has found his match. Lol good luck with your argument.

Not even close

Always a Bulldog

 

[Powerslide]

Don't think the cap will be going up by 20% by what I have seen it will be maybe ~15% but biggest increases are for minimum contracts that have pretty much doubled. SO those clubs trying to have 20 top players with the rest of the top 30 filled with minimum contract will probably see little benefits to player retention/recruitement. However those clubs with existing contracts that have the ratchet clause based on Salary Cap ... things could get ugly

 

[Cappuccino]

Twin turbo has found his match. Lol good luck with your argument.

Big argument incoming with rival zero tackle datasets.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Don't think the cap will be going up by 20% by what I have seen it will be maybe ~15% but biggest increases are for minimum contracts that have pretty much doubled. SO those clubs trying to have 20 top players with the rest of the top 30 filled with minimum contract will probably see little benefits to player retention/recruitement. However those clubs with existing contracts that have the ratchet clause based on Salary Cap ... things could get ugly

That was a bullshit media report or at the very least a confusing report. The minimum Top 30 NRL contracts was $120k in 2022 (less the 6% Covid reduction) and for 2023 the RLPA is asking for $150k, that's a 25% increase, not a 100%. They may be confusing the Next 10 NRL contract (ie; Top 40) which the RLPS are asking $65k for (10 players = $650k total increase in the Cap).

Always a Bulldog

 

[Lynchpin]

I think you may have missed a few things that are rather important...

If that were true, then why would I state the assumption: $11mil "cap"

THE CAP GOES UP BY 20% IN 2023

Source? That's conjecture (which is fine, but if you shout more it will make it a fact).
It might turn out to be the case, but depending on how the CBA turns out, using $11Mil seems reasonable as a ballpark. If so, happy to adjust figures based on cap reality (when they finally announce it).

and agruably $100k less than Elite Centre money.

Yep. More than happy for you to make that argument. I disagree. I don't think he's an Elite Centre. Not in the top 5 Centres. Probably 6-8.

Crichton is already on $600k at Penrith in 2022, just to stay on par that needs to be $720k in 2023/24.

Probably why they're baulking on the re-sign.

You need to lift your thinking by 20% to accommodate the 2023/24 Cap.

Way ahead of you - see above.

If Gus & Ciraldo want Crichton on Elite Centre money, to possibly play fullback, then that's their call. I don't think he's either, but I ain't signing the cheques and ain't the expert anyways.

But if we decide to overstack some positions (Centre), it is going to mean less for (arguably more important) spine positions, like Fullback, Halfback, and Lock. Will they not also need +20% upgrades? After all, "The players know this, their agents know this and there is no escaping from it."

The Dogs have had a tendency to do that in the past (neglect the spine), and it ain't always worked out that well.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Don't think the cap will be going up by 20% by what I have seen it will be maybe ~15% but biggest increases are for minimum contracts that have pretty much doubled. SO those clubs trying to have 20 top players with the rest of the top 30 filled with minimum contract will probably see little benefits to player retention/recruitement. However those clubs with existing contracts that have the ratchet clause based on Salary Cap ... things could get ugly

The RLPA is well aware of the Media Rights and the Grants that the NRL provides to the Clubs.

• The NRL club grants have stayed at $13m since 2018.
• The broadcast revenue increase is ~15% for each club plus an extra club added (Dolphins) from next season onwards.
• It also increases if/when an 18th club is added, so the existing 17 club grants do not decrease.
• As a result the NRL club grants should go up to ~$16m.
• Commonly the NRL allocates around 75% of the grant to the Salary Cap, so 16 x 75% = $11.94m.

The RLPA is asking for a $12m Cap with $650k of that allocated to the Next 10 NRL players (making it a Top 40). To date the RLPA has not budged on that demand and have increased their media pressure

Players sick of low-ball CBA offer

Collective bargaining disagreement: Inside the pay war paralysing the NRL

Rugby league has already started its new financial year in the midst of a bitter dispute between the NRL and its clubs and players. How did we get to this point?

www.smh.com.au

Collective bargaining disagreement: Inside the pay war paralysing the NRL


Always a Bulldog

 

[Lynchpin]

The RLPA is asking for a $12m Cap

It will probably work out something like:
* 2023: $11.0 Mil (min: $150k)
* 2024: $11.4 Mil (min: $155k)
* 2025: $11.8 Mil (min: $160k)
* 2026: $12.2 Mil (min: $165k)
* 2027: $12.6 Mil (min: $170k)
[Average: $11.8 Mil - but, bump up each year by $200k, if their negotiations get up.]

...with the $650k for 31-40 outside the main cap of 30, but car allowances and Dev/Vet allowances inside those main cap figures.

 

[Dogmonster]

Have we sugned him yet??
Guy has a fkukey lucky rainbow shining out his arse.
Match winner.