Should Shane Flanagan and James Hird coach again?

[sam snee]

Not many gun coaches on the market still do t think flano is the right fit for us ,hope Gus leaves no stone unturned in his search for the right man just don’t think flano is

 

[Bazildog]

But who was available back then - Hook?
Hardly setting the world on fire at Kogarah.
Bellamy in my view was never leaving Melbourne and Bennett was always headed back to Queensland. So I don’t think much has changed and I do think Pay would’ve done better with Barrett’s roster than Barrett did. Apart from that Flanagan is a Karmichael .

Dinkum... you memory is in convieniant mode this morning.. You know as well as I do that both Bellamy and Bennett were potentially available at various times and not tied into long term deals at all. I am sure if Gus was here a year or two earlier he would have chased Bennett again.

By better than Barrett I assume you mean less shit because they were and still are both rubbish as FG coaches which is why Dean isnt in the game anymore and Barrett might be an assistant again maybe..

As for Hook, he has proven to be very good at bringing young guys into grade and we certainly could have used that with the BBO, Averillo and Topine etc. I never said he was our way to a premeirship but he would be miles better than the last two peanuts and at the least would have brought some disipline back while we rebuild and find a proper premiership coach.

But then again, we could just sit on our hands again and think/hope about finding someone that..,

We all like and trust, drinks the same brand of beer, was a Canterbury jnr, has never had some much as a speeding fine, speaks well, gets on with all board members, is appealing on the eye (for @Mutt Dafty and @PE Teacher 21 and @Tassie Devil ) loves kebabs, can recite every great Bulldog player thats ever lived, is loved by all the press and hopefully wants to be a long term Kennel member giving up at least 4-5 hours per week answering anything we ask him.

Piece of piss.

 

[2144superman]

Dinkum... you memory is in convieniant mode this morning.. You know as well as I do that both Bellamy and Bennett were potentially available at various times and not tied into long term deals at all. I am sure if Gus was here a year or two earlier he would have chased Bennett again.

By better than Barrett I assume you mean less shit because they were and still are both rubbish as FG coaches which is why Dean isnt in the game anymore and Barrett might be an assistant again maybe..

As for Hook, he has proven to be very good at bringing young guys into grade and we certainly could have used that with the BBO, Averillo and Topine etc. I never said he was our way to a premeirship but he would be miles better than the last two peanuts and at the least would have brought some disipline back while we rebuild and find a proper premiership coach.

But then again, we could just sit on our hands again and think/hope about finding someone that..,

We all like and trust, drinks the same brand of beer, was a Canterbury jnr, has never had some much as a speeding fine, speaks well, gets on with all board members, is appealing on the eye (for @Mutt Dafty and @PE Teacher 21 and @Tassie Devil ) loves kebabs, can recite every great Bulldog player thats ever lived, is loved by all the press and hopefully wants to be a long term Kennel member giving up at least 4-5 hours per week answering anything we ask him.

Piece of piss.

@PE Teacher 21 too huh ... this has been a real week of revelations. LOL

 

[Bazildog]

@PE Teacher 21 too huh ... this has been a real week of revelations. LOL

He has a thing for good abs apparently.

 

[senshidog]

Who gives a fuck... get him in here!

He wasn't the only one to blame for the Sharks peptide saga, infact he was the lesser responsible compared to the others.

NRL just don't want us to succeed. I bet if we signed a betting partner however that would change fast.

 

[DinkumDog]

Dinkum... you memory is in convieniant mode this morning.. You know as well as I do that both Bellamy and Bennett were potentially available at various times and not tied into long term deals at all. I am sure if Gus was here a year or two earlier he would have chased Bennett again.

By better than Barrett I assume you mean less shit because they were and still are both rubbish as FG coaches which is why Dean isnt in the game anymore and Barrett might be an assistant again maybe..

As for Hook, he has proven to be very good at bringing young guys into grade and we certainly could have used that with the BBO, Averillo and Topine etc. I never said he was our way to a premeirship but he would be miles better than the last two peanuts and at the least would have brought some disipline back while we rebuild and find a proper premiership coach.

But then again, we could just sit on our hands again and think/hope about finding someone that..,

We all like and trust, drinks the same brand of beer, was a Canterbury jnr, has never had some much as a speeding fine, speaks well, gets on with all board members, is appealing on the eye (for @Mutt Dafty and @PE Teacher 21 and @Tassie Devil ) loves kebabs, can recite every great Bulldog player thats ever lived, is loved by all the press and hopefully wants to be a long term Kennel member giving up at least 4-5 hours per week answering anything we ask him.

Piece of piss.

Nothing to do with convenience Baz.

I’ve never said Pay was a great coach and clearly wasn’t the long term answer. I supported him because he was handed a shit sandwich and had a red hot crack with a garbage squad. I absolutely believe he’d have the current team playing better than Barrett did.

In 2020, Bellamy publicly stated he’d ‘Never spoken to the Bulldogs’ - partly maybe to protect his mate Pay. But I think it’s a bit of a leap to conclude he was ever a realistic option for Belmore. same for Bennett who also said publicly that when his Redfern stint was over he was heading back to Queensland.

Speculation as to whether if Gus came earlier or not is just that. And - let’s say Hook got the coaching job over Barrett - then no Gus at Belmore or Hook quits because he refuses to work with Gus again and we’re essentially in the same spot we are now anyway.

As for the rest of your post - good laugh but yeah nah. Bottom line I think Flanagan is toxic and don’t want him. But if that’s the way it goes I’ll roll with it because the club is bigger than any individual and I don’t walk away from 42 years of support - but I’ll have to cop it with gritted teeth - because he’s a Karmichael.

 

[The DoggFather]

Dinkum... you memory is in convieniant mode this morning.. You know as well as I do that both Bellamy and Bennett were potentially available at various times and not tied into long term deals at all. I am sure if Gus was here a year or two earlier he would have chased Bennett again.

By better than Barrett I assume you mean less shit because they were and still are both rubbish as FG coaches which is why Dean isnt in the game anymore and Barrett might be an assistant again maybe..

As for Hook, he has proven to be very good at bringing young guys into grade and we certainly could have used that with the BBO, Averillo and Topine etc. I never said he was our way to a premeirship but he would be miles better than the last two peanuts and at the least would have brought some disipline back while we rebuild and find a proper premiership coach.

But then again, we could just sit on our hands again and think/hope about finding someone that..,

We all like and trust, drinks the same brand of beer, was a Canterbury jnr, has never had some much as a speeding fine, speaks well, gets on with all board members, is appealing on the eye (for @Mutt Dafty and @PE Teacher 21 and @Tassie Devil ) loves kebabs, can recite every great Bulldog player thats ever lived, is loved by all the press and hopefully wants to be a long term Kennel member giving up at least 4-5 hours per week answering anything we ask him.

Piece of piss.

Bennett APPROACHED US TWICE! Pre and post Des.

 

[Bazildog]

Nothing to do with convenience Baz.

I’ve never said Pay was a great coach and clearly wasn’t the long term answer. I supported him because he was handed a shit sandwich and had a red hot crack with a garbage squad. I absolutely believe he’d have the current team playing better than Barrett did.

In 2020, Bellamy publicly stated he’d ‘Never spoken to the Bulldogs’ - partly maybe to protect his mate Pay. But I think it’s a bit of a leap to conclude he was ever a realistic option for Belmore. same for Bennett who also said publicly that when his Redfern stint was over he was heading back to Queensland.

Speculation as to whether if Gus came earlier or not is just that. And - let’s say Hook got the coaching job over Barrett - then no Gus at Belmore or Hook quits because he refuses to work with Gus again and we’re essentially in the same spot we are now anyway.

As for the rest of your post - good laugh but yeah nah. Bottom line I think Flanagan is toxic and don’t want him. But if that’s the way it goes I’ll roll with it because the club is bigger than any individual and I don’t walk away from 42 years of support - but I’ll have to cop it with gritted teeth - because he’s a Karmichael.

Sorry Dink, but thats a furphy. I can recall many posts were your response or stance was to me was always to wait and be paitent, and you had plenty of debate with me about people I suggested including Bennett.

I was bitterly against Barrett but as you now suggest with Flanagan I sucked it up and supported the new coach even though there was zero evidence or history to suggest it will work. We all now know how that turned out.

Flannagan may well be a Karmichael, but if ever a club needed one of those its us, particularily as he does have a proven winning reputation and is a premiership winner. If it ends up being a battle of the Karmichaels, my money is on Gus.

 

[Bazildog]

Bennett APPROACHED US TWICE! Pre and post Des.

I know mate and thats my point. He always had a soft spot for the Dogs and personally recomeded Hannat, Ennis and Staggs all come to us when they left the Broncs.

 

[DinkumDog]

Sorry Dink, but thats a furphy. I can recall many posts were your response or stance was to me was always to wait and be paitent, and you had plenty of debate with me about people I suggested including Bennett.

I was bitterly against Barrett but as you now suggest with Flanagan I sucked it up and supported the new coach even though there was zero evidence or history to suggest it will work. We all now know how that turned out.

Flannagan may well be a Karmichael, but if ever a club needed one of those its us, particularily as he does have a proven winning reputation and is a premiership winner. If it ends up being a battle of the Karmichaels, my money is on Gus.

Call it what you want Baz.
Yes, I said be patient and I still say that now.
Of course we want to win, but not only the right people on the bus, but in the right seats.
We’ve come this far, why rush into something now?
Anyway agree to disagree.
I think Flanagan is the wrong choice, end of.
Nothing will change my view on that.
Well, maybe a Premiership will, but hopefully it’s not achieved with a questionable cap like in 2016.
Remember how you’ve often called them Cheatulla? There you go…

 

[Bazildog]

Call it what you want Baz.
Yes, I said be patient and I still say that now.
Of course we want to win, but not only the right people on the bus, but in the right seats.
We’ve come this far, why rush into something now?
Anyway agree to disagree.
I think Flanagan is the wrong choice, end of.
Nothing will change my view on that.
Well, maybe a Premiership will, but hopefully it’s not achieved with a questionable cap like in 2016.
Remember how you’ve often called them Cheatulla? There you go…

100% I did and Drugulla and kuntulla and I also said if you wish to qoute me some more that I "would rather slam my cock in a door than ever see Flange set foot in Belmore.". But that was before I got to enjoy She-man, Greenturd, the Andersons, Pay, Ferris, Barrett, and a convoy of busses full of useless players like Atoni, JMK, and Lewis..

But after 45 years of support and 18 years since our last premiership, 8 years since our last grandfinal and 6 years since I wasnt embarrased by our footy club, I have run out of fucking patience...

There we both go..

 

[DinkumDog]

I have run out of fucking patients...

Are they seeking help elsewhere?
Oh, patience .

Fair enough mate.
Everyone is over our reality.
I recently described to someone within the club that I ‘cannot remember a lower ebb’. And based on the response I got, that’s exactly why I think the coaching appointment won’t be rushed. We’ve cocked up the last two, if we don’t get this right there might be 3 more years of pain and no one wants that.

 

[Bazildog]

Are they seeking help elsewhere?
Oh, patience .

Fair enough mate.
Everyone is over our reality.
I recently described to someone within the club that I ‘cannot remember a lower ebb’. And based on the response I got, that’s exactly why I think the coaching appointment won’t be rushed. We’ve cocked up the last two, if we don’t get this right there might be 3 more years of pain and no one wants that.

We cocked up both times because we waited too fucking long.

 

[DinkumDog]

We cocked up both times because we waited too fucking long.

Too long to punt Hasler?
Yeah, agree there, by 2017 we were looking very average due to his/Castle’s backended deals.

For both Pay and Barrett though - Pay had 2.5 years and Barrett not even 1.5. With them I think it was more just the wrong choice. Pay was the ‘DNA’ play by Dib to win an election and Barrett was Lynne/Hill falling for his spin how he’d ‘learned, improved, grown’ etc.

All of it a mess - and hence why I see the club taking their time with the next guy. I’m cool with that because I don’t want to see us have buyers remorse (again).

 

[D- voice]

Like a spruiker from Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party shoving how-to-vote flyers in your face on election day, Shane Flanagan is pushing hard to become the next coach of the Bulldogs.

So hard it won’t surprise if it costs him the job.

He reached out to the club a week after Trent Barrett’s departure and in recent days has pitched up on 2GB and Fox Sports — the two media outlets for whom he’s worked since the NRL deregistered him four years ago.
Flanagan told a Fox Sports podcast on Tuesday: “I’m sure Gus or whoever is in charge of that responsibility, if they’re interested, come and give me a ring over the next couple of weeks, we’ll go from there, but at the moment I’ll just sit back.”

You there, Gus? Something? Helloooooo?

If they’re to engage with him, the Bulldogs general manager Phil Gould and the club’s board will need to be sure they can trust Flanagan, who has been more than prepared to extol his own virtues but is still haunted by his past mistakes.

Indeed, the way some have airbrushed over his past indiscretions which had seen him twice suspended from the NRL as he agitates for the Bulldogs job has been quite remarkable.
It would be nice to know if Flanagan, after all these years, takes any responsibility as head coach for what happened at Cronulla in 2011 when controversial sports scientist Stephen Dank was allowed to administer players with banned substances.

It would be nice to know if Flanagan has learned anything from his four-year exile after the NRL discovered he breached the conditions of his year-long suspension in 2014 for failing in his “duty of care” to his players.

Meanwhile, as Flanagan eyes a possible return to coaching, the other prominent coach at the centre of the “darkest day in Australian sport” is considering his own tale of redemption.

Former Essendon coach James Hird joined GWS Giants as a “leadership consultant” in January but now finds himself on the coaching staff after head coach Leon Cameron resigned earlier this month.

It’s unlikely the struggling Western Sydney franchise will appoint Hird as its senior coach, especially with four-time premiership winner Alastair Clarkson on the market, but there’s little doubt he wants back in, as confirmed by his former Bombers mentor, Kevin Sheedy, in a recent interview.

Should Hird be afforded a second chance? Should Flanagan be afforded a third?

Some maintain neither man should be allowed anywhere near a group of young athletes ever again, such was the impact of the drug saga that occurred while they were head coaches of their respective clubs and playing groups.
Yet both the AFL and NRL insist they’ve done their time, ticked all the right boxes and can’t, let alone won’t, stand in their way.
Perhaps the relevant question is whether an AFL or NRL club would be interested to take on a coach carrying so much baggage.

In Hird’s case, there’s a belief he wasn’t a particularly great coach anyway. He returned to Essendon from his year-long ban but resigned at the end of 2015 with a winning percentage of 48 per cent.

Flanagan, however, won a premiership at the Sharks in 2016, their first in 50 years of existence. Success has many fathers but he deserves a large slice of the credit.
The Bulldogs need more than just a hard-headed coach prepared to make tough decisions. They need someone who can work hand-in-glove with Gould.
People join the dots and say the two men are represented by the same person — veteran agent Wayne Beavis — but so was Anthony Griffin. How did that work out?
Flanagan’s son, Kyle, is an issue, as it often is when a father is coaching his son. He told 2GB on Saturday he would be strong enough to drop him if he felt it was best for the team but not everyone at Belmore is convinced.

He gave unsolicited advice to Barrett last year about how to play his son, just as he tried to give advice to Trent Robinson at the Roosters the year before that.
If he was appointed coach, could the Bulldogs trust Flanagan to dispassionately drop Kyle if the time came? What if Gould didn’t want to renew his contract? What if he found a better halfback?

Flanagan says he could work with Gould, but he’s shown before he has issues with authority.

When he returned to the game in 2015, NRL officials suggested he address his peers at a pre-season coach’s meeting. It was a chance to tell the other coaches what he’d learned, what he’d got wrong, how they could avoid the same grave error of letting mysterious high-performance types wielding syringes full of unknown substances into their club.

Flanagan didn’t see the point but eventually got up, grumbled a few words and sat down. No contrition was shown for the damage the supplements scandal had done to the game. It went down like a bad prawn with his fellow coaches.

Then, in 2018, after Sharks chief executive Barry Russell self-reported possible salary-cap breaches, the NRL ordered a forensic audit of the club’s books.
In doing so, it discovered Flanagan had defied the rules of his 2014 ban by negotiating contracts with players.

The smoking gun was a series of emails sent from his Sharks email address to his private one — that old trick! — but what isn’t commonly known is how the integrity unit also discovered Flanagan cheating on his homework.

One of the conditions of his return was completion of a compliance and ethics course. The audit discovered Flanagan had asked others to do the essays for him. When challenged by NRL investigators, he thought nothing of it.

When contacted on Thursday, Flanagan strongly denied this, insisting “all the work was my own”.

Flanagan deserves his chance again. It might even be at the Bulldogs, although you sense they would’ve talked to him by now if they were interested.
But if this one-man election campaign is to continue, he should stop telling us what he’s done — and start telling us how he’s changed.
(For the record, Flanagan has rejected repeated interview requests from this column for over two months, saying he didn’t want to be seen to be pitching up for a job).

Should Shane Flanagan and James Hird coach again?

The two coaches at the centre of the “darkest day in Australian sport” want a second chance. Do they deserve it?

www.smh.com.au

I could be wrong but looking at the wider picture of the Flanagan coaching dramas it leaves me with a very important conclusion...
Cronulla being a former super league club and most likely still have connections with News Lies unLTD leaves me wondering, is it the reason for someone with Flanagan's history of getting caught with cheating the cap and using drug enhancing peptide still manages to get a job at News Crap and Foxtel...
Most concerning, are the News Crap people trying to plant a mole in our club ?
Or will Flanagan become our solution by overcoming his previous toxic environments ?
Can we afford the risk now ?

 

[D- voice]

Told yers, the bloke is a grub and I’m still hoping he doesn’t get the job - especially so because he might be considered ‘the best available’. We’re better off talking Potter into staying longer (if we need to) to find the ‘right’ coach longer term. This decision is so critical and cannot be botched. In my view Flanagan is a NO.

Yeah, I was with you mate and agreed with your views about Pay for a long time but then when it was obvious that he was not the future I debated with you about the timing of moving him on. I wanted to see the club pull the trigger and chase the big name coaches and you wanted to wait and see to. We waited "because he deserves a better roster or his players" and only pulled the trigger when it was after all the decent coaches were gone, and we ended up with....Barrett. You know mate that I was always against the idea of Flannagan coaching us especially when there was any chance of Bellamy, Bennett, Robinson or someone like Shaun Wane. But they all are off the table and we desperately need an experinced winning coach and not some has been that never was or another "potential rookie".



True mate, but maybe he knows something we dont. Barrett was a fantastic speaker and a rubbish coach, Flannagan by record is tough successful coach that might not be the best public speaker and also has a few black marks. We desperately need a strong successful coach so if we believe Gould has control of the clubs future and thinks he can handle Flanagan, we should hire him now I reckon.

But who was available back then - Hook?
Hardly setting the world on fire at Kogarah.
Bellamy in my view was never leaving Melbourne and Bennett was always headed back to Queensland. So I don’t think much has changed and I do think Pay would’ve done better with Barrett’s roster than Barrett did. Apart from that Flanagan is a Karmichael .

You both have made good points but after the Hasler drama we should have never taken a gamble on a rookie coach, I did believe then and still believed now until just recently that we should have made an offer to Bellamy he can't refuse !

 

[c-b-b]

I bet the majority of people in support of Flanno Sr have a different view if we have a decent coach and he's looking to coach at another club.

 

[DinkumDog]

You both have made good points but after the Hasler drama we should have never taken a gamble on a rookie coach, I did believe then and still believed now until just recently that we should have made an offer to Bellamy he can't refuse !

Too late for Bellamy (unless Gus can pull a rabbit out of a hat) and I’m not convinced he ever would’ve come anyway. He’d just won another comp in 2017 when the Hasler thing was coming to a head and in 2018 he still had Smith and Slater despite Cronk having gone to Bondi - why would he have left what he had for a club in salary cap hell regardless of how much you paid him? He’s too smart and I don’t think it was ever on.

 

[D- voice]

Too late for Bellamy (unless Gus can pull a rabbit out of a hat) and I’m not convinced he ever would’ve come anyway. He’d just won another comp in 2017 when the Hasler thing was coming to a head and in 2018 he still had Smith and Slater despite Cronk having gone to Bondi - why would he have left what he had for a club in salary cap hell regardless of how much you paid him? He’s too smart and I don’t think it was ever on.

I know it's too late for now, if money wouldn't do it throwing the challenge at someone like him after winning another GF might have done it, sometimes challenging egos can do the trick.
We'll never know until we try !!!

 

[Ant2611]

Barrett speakes more eloquently than flange..... does that mean he is a better coach?