Official Round 3 - Dogs vs Tigers - Consolidated Match Thread

[finchie]

I don't really believe for one second that Jackson would say no to playing lock if there wasn't a damn good reason for it.
I also don't really believe for one second that Pay and/or the rest of the coaching staff would let Jackson say no to playing lock if there wasn't a damn good reason for it.
A reason that they all agreed was valid and the best for the team based on the information and data that they have (and we don't).
At some point even the most critical of fans has to accept that maybe there's a damn good reason why the coaching staff and the team captain agree.

Go Dogs

Plz enlighten as to what that good reason is.
That same reason has been working wonders in the first 2 rounds hasn’t it.
Jackson has played his worst 2 games in a bulldog jumper

 

[EB18]

Plz enlighten as to what that good reason is.
That same reason has been working wonders in the first 2 rounds hasn’t it.
Jackson has played his worst 2 games in a bulldog jumper

Move Jackson to fucking lock simple. Deadset let me coach the team for a week. We are getting streamrolled though the middle which is causing gaps out wide. Tighten the fucking middle up. Jackson napa tolman come hold the middle. Elliott off the bench will help also. 1 of either jackson or tolman is on the field at all times. Martin and chn can hold there own out wide. Pays a moron he has no idea. Id do a better job and I havent even coached an under 11 oztag team.

 

[EB18]

We now the 2 tallest wingers in the nrl. If we can somehow get in good field postion then bomb all day long.

 

[dogwhisperer]

are you happy with the recruitment in the offseason ? considering the glaring holes we have at the centre position ?? was Sue required, was CHN a necessity, crighton ??

Granted the team isn't of first grade quality, but the offseason recruitment has not helped change that at all..

There's still a squad of 30 players you need to fill. I don't think we have paid big dollars for these recruits.

Let's start with the Penrith boys - Crichton played 20 FG games last year, was playing 1st grade in the semi's(replaced Mansour when Mansour got injured)
CHN - young promising backrower who was a regular starting player then started playing from the bench. Only 23 years old, up there with Martin and Jackson and much younger, a succession plan for the back row, Jackson isn't getting any younger and already hit his peak a couple of years ago, I'm seeing a slight decline in his career. CHN has been playing out of position, he's not a middle forward. Will provide something on the edge. Pay is finally starting him on the edge this week. Don't forget missed a chunk off the offseason through a groin injury. If Penrith who are a better team than us think they are First Graders, then why wouldn't we if we are struggling for players.

Napa - I really don't know why some people don't like the guy but it's a no brainer to have him in our squad. Has size, experience(which we don't have), he's shown enough for me in the first two rounds to suggest he will only get better. Clearly our middle suffered when he came off. Watch the parra game again. Scored a nice strong try off a Prince assist and defends well. Hasn't scored a try for the roosters in 59 games, scored one for us in only his second game for the club & made 182 meters.

Sue - rubbish - back up only when we have injuries.

Coggar & Meaney - well we really can't comment on them to be honest. They would've come real cheap, pipline players with potential, I'm reserving my judgement on them until they play at leat 50 FG games. Key position players. They need time. We really don't know how well they'll go, but worth the investment as they came on the cheap.

We haven't wasted our money at all considering the amount of top dollar players we let go or wanted to leave.
The definition of wasting money was throwing a crazy amount of money to re-sign Mbye, buying Woods and signing Foran for a $1m a season. Now that's insane!

There was money to buy a decent centre for $500k-$600k, but there was no one worth giving that money to on the market.

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

It looks like a NSW cup side

Oh shit were gonna get smashed, record score in sight .

 

[TwinTurbo]

Plz enlighten as to what that good reason is.
That same reason has been working wonders in the first 2 rounds hasn’t it.
Jackson has played his worst 2 games in a bulldog jumper

I didn't say that I know the reason/s, just that I believe that there must be some pretty good ones. Being off his game is hardly a valid reason why I would change someone out of their acknowledged position. I don't recall a time where Jackson has played lock and played better than he has in the 2nd row for 150+ games.

Go Dogs

 

[MatstaDogg]

Meh, at least Pay actually made some changes I guess.

 

[GDR]

There's still a squad of 30 players you need to fill. I don't think we have paid big dollars for these recruits.

Let's start with the Penrith boys - Crichton played 20 FG games last year, was playing 1st grade in the semi's(replaced Mansour when Mansour got injured)
CHN - young promising backrower who was a regular starting player then started playing from the bench. Only 23 years old, up there with Martin and Jackson and much younger, a succession plan for the back row, Jackson isn't getting any younger and already hit his peak a couple of years ago, I'm seeing a slight decline in his career. CHN has been playing out of position, he's not a middle forward. Will provide something on the edge. Pay is finally starting him on the edge this week. Don't forget missed a chunk off the offseason through a groin injury. If Penrith who are a better team than us think they are First Graders, then why wouldn't we if we are struggling for players.

Napa - I really don't know why some people don't like the guy but it's a no brainer to have him in our squad. Has size, experience(which we don't have), he's shown enough for me in the first two rounds to suggest he will only get better. Clearly our middle suffered when he came off. Watch the parra game again. Scored a nice strong try off a Prince assist and defends well. Hasn't scored a try for the roosters in 59 games, scored one for us in only his second game for the club & made 182 meters.

Sue - rubbish - back up only when we have injuries.

Coggar & Meaney - well we really can't comment on them to be honest. They would've come real cheap, pipline players with potential, I'm reserving my judgement on them until they play at leat 50 FG games. Key position players. They need time. We really don't know how well they'll go, but worth the investment as they came on the cheap.

We haven't wasted our money at all considering the amount of top dollar players we let go or wanted to leave.
The definition of wasting money was throwing a crazy amount of money to re-sign Mbye, buying Woods and signing Foran for a $1m a season. Now that's insane!

There was money to buy a decent centre for $500k-$600k, but there was no one worth giving that money to on the market.

Crighton I think was a waste and as you said so was sue.. we can ill afford any wasted signings..

I'm not ready to hang Pay as many others are at this stage of the season, however he needs to show us something.... don't you think ??

I do appreciate that at least he has made an attempt to fix things unlike his stubborn predecessor..

 

[speedy2460]

Can someone explain why Montoya was replaced by Hopoate. Montoya cant tackle apparently, so they replace him
with another non tackler. Meaney at the back is worth the gamble. But there is a need for a tackling centre and Hopoate isnt it.
I was one of the first to suggest CHN could play centre. It still looks like a good move.

 

[LoneWolf]

Well said HM! There’s nothing Pay can do!
That’s why I’m not rubbishing him. Yeh sure he could’ve made some better positional changes or bench rotations etc but seriously we got to give the guy a break. There’s probably only about 6 first graders in our whole squad that will make the other teams top 17.

The problem with pay is not so much the players at his disposal but the use of the players he has available ..
On paper there is some potential there and should be performing to much better standards than what we’ve shown ..

Centres and wingers are specialist positions and you can’t look past these 2 areas as the biggest struggles in last 2 games .

Montoya a mediocre winger chosen in centre and it’s proven disastrous
Holland who showed some potential towards last yr at right centre with reimis switched to opposite side and been a disaster
Crichton defence questionable and perhaps a little hard done by cause it’s his inside men letting him down , does offer some plus when bringing the ball out but hard to argue against his demotion

Similar arguments could be had about the second rowers

No matter the combinations we looked gased after 20-30 minutes in both games

We’re competitive up until that stage and then we falter badly

Against parra pay bought on 3 or so players through middle after 20 odd minutes with 70% possession , I understood the thinking as we gone shown up in rd 1 at that stage and he wanted some energy but it severely disrupted us and it lost us the game along with poor defence and structure on fringes ..

Pay has to take some blame as fitness , rotations and team selections are all on him and these are the 3 categories we’ve been shown up on

 

[GDR]

The problem with pay is not so much the players at his disposal but the use of the players he has available ..
On paper there is some potential there and should be performing to much better standards than what we’ve shown ..

Centres and wingers are specialist positions and you can’t look past these 2 areas as the biggest struggles in last 2 games .

Montoya a mediocre winger chosen in centre and it’s proven disastrous
Holland who showed some potential towards last yr at right centre with reimis switched to opposite side and been a disaster
Crichton defence questionable and perhaps a little hard done by cause it’s his inside men letting him down , does offer some plus when bringing the ball out but hard to argue against his demotion

Similar arguments could be had about the second rowers

No matter the combinations we looked gased after 20-30 minutes in both games

We’re competitive up until that stage and then we falter badly

Against parra pay bought on 3 or so players through middle after 20 odd minutes with 70% possession , I understood the thinking as we gone shown up in rd 1 at that stage and he wanted some energy but it severely disrupted us and it lost us the game along with poor defence and structure on fringes ..

Pay has to take some blame as fitness , rotations and team selections are all on him and these are the 3 categories we’ve been shown up on

well said, regardless of the roster you have brought up some glaring issues that have been echoed by several kennel members..

we don't expect miracles from this roster but we expect the basics sorted... Theres a very good possibility that Pay lost us that game with his bench choices and rotations..

seriously I still cant get over , Holland and smith combo being split up... it concerns me that Pay cant get that right..

 

[CaptainJackson]

Based on the 17 named. The following has to happen to be chance. It seems only pay and jackson dont.

1. Meaney
2. Okunbor (l)
3. Hoppa (l)
4. Holland (r)
5. Smith (r)
6. Foran (r)
7. Lewis (l)
8. Napa
9. Jmk
10. Tolman
11. Martin (l)
12. Chn (r)
13. Jackson

14. Lichaa
15. Smith
16. Elliott
17. Ogden

i.e we need to tighten up the middle so fucking put jackson there. Martin and chn can hold there own on the edge. Also 1 of jackson or tolman has to be on the field at all times. Cant be both on the bench at once. Ffs i should coach this team. Jackson sub at 32 min mark. Back on at 48-50 min mark. Tolman plays first 48-50 mins. If martin fagiues jackson or elliott goes there. Chn plays 80.

This is probably the best lineup we can realistically hope for. By realistically I mean that elliot is never going to get dropped because the club has a massive love in for him.

The only thing I'd change about that lineup is

Okunbur is still questionable and that position is up for grabs

My bench would be Ogden, Fualalo, RFM, and then fourth either carry a hooker or an extra forward (NOT elliot)

Elliot shouldn't be in 1st grade IMO, he offers nothing for us.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Crighton I think was a waste and as you said so was sue.. we can ill afford any wasted signings..

I'm not ready to hang Pay as many others are at this stage of the season, however he needs to show us something.... don't you think ??

I do appreciate that at least he has made an attempt to fix thing unlike his stubborn predecessor..

I agree

 

[Bull Terrier]

Can someone explain why Montoya was replaced by Hopoate. Montoya cant tackle apparently, so they replace him
with another non tackler. Meaney at the back is worth the gamble. But there is a need for a tackling centre and Hopoate isnt it.
I was one of the first to suggest CHN could play centre. It still looks like a good move.

i agree with you i figure that at least Hopa has some attacking skills where as Montoya shows nothing at all. I agree with CHN at centre also thats another option hopefully we can use.

 

[Bull Terrier]

A huge Congrats to Jayden Okunbur for making his FG Debut, especially the fact his a Canterbury Junior. Well done hope you have a great game.

 

[dogwhisperer]

The problem with pay is not so much the players at his disposal but the use of the players he has available ..
On paper there is some potential there and should be performing to much better standards than what we’ve shown ..

Centres and wingers are specialist positions and you can’t look past these 2 areas as the biggest struggles in last 2 games .

Montoya a mediocre winger chosen in centre and it’s proven disastrous
Holland who showed some potential towards last yr at right centre with reimis switched to opposite side and been a disaster
Crichton defence questionable and perhaps a little hard done by cause it’s his inside men letting him down , does offer some plus when bringing the ball out but hard to argue against his demotion

Similar arguments could be had about the second rowers

No matter the combinations we looked gased after 20-30 minutes in both games

We’re competitive up until that stage and then we falter badly

Against parra pay bought on 3 or so players through middle after 20 odd minutes with 70% possession , I understood the thinking as we gone shown up in rd 1 at that stage and he wanted some energy but it severely disrupted us and it lost us the game along with poor defence and structure on fringes ..

Pay has to take some blame as fitness , rotations and team selections are all on him and these are the 3 categories we’ve been shown up on

Good post and really good insight into what's happening. I can't argue with most of the things you said. These things obvioulsy played a part.
For 30 minutes we actually played really really well, so Pay must be doing at least something right.
Where we faulted was when the momentum changed, for some reason when Parra started getting more of the ball we didn't know how to respond. We just didn't absorb the pressure well.
Momentum is going to change in a game multiple times in 80 mins of footy. For some reason when it was 18-10(parra scored three tries in a row) we shit ourselves and hit the panic button, tried to play catch up footy and threw some dumb passes that got intercepted and the score hit 30-10 game over red rover. At 18-10, we were still in the game, we needed to roll our sleeves up, kick to the corners, play set for set footy, wear them down and eventually the tide would have turned our way again. We lacked patience, composure, experience and leadership. I don't care what anyone says, Parra are rubblish, they didn't win it, we gifted them the win.

 

[Malla]

Good post and really good insight into what's happening. I can't argue with most of the things you said. These things obvioulsy played a part.
For 30 minutes we actually played really really well, so Pay must be doing at least something right.
Where we faulted was when the momentum changed, for some reason when Parra started getting more of the ball we didn't know how to respond. We just didn't absorb the pressure well.
Momentum is going to change in a game multiple times in 80 mins of footy. For some reason when it was 18-10(parra scored three tries in a row) we shit ourselves and hit the panic button, tried to play catch up footy and threw some dumb passes that got intercepted and the score hit 30-10 game over red rover. At 18-10, we were still in the game, we needed to roll our sleeves up, kick to the corners, play set for set footy, wear them down and eventually the tide would have turned our way again. We lacked patience, composure, experience and leadership. I don't care what anyone says, Parra are rubblish, they didn't win it, we gifted them the win.

Great points and the composure and leadership should start with our halves... didn't see any of that. Being up 10-0 with a mountain of possession, Foran should have taken over and kicked to corners, turned their big forwards around and keep pressing through the middle. If we went to half time up then it would have been a close game but as you said once we were behind by more than a converted try we panicked.

Either way, I do expect a better show against Tigers. We won't win, but we won't get blown out.

 

[Straight18]

Some mentioned we have 2 tall wingers so lets cross field bomb.
When i read that i thought i bet thats the only game plan dean has this week. Lol.
Tackling certainly has been off the agenda. Lol
Fuck me where gonna get smashed again.

 

[Gabe]

Non of it will make a difference if Pay rotates his bench the same way he did last week.

 

[finchie]

I didn't say that I know the reason/s, just that I believe that there must be some pretty good ones. Being off his game is hardly a valid reason why I would change someone out of their acknowledged position. I don't recall a time where Jackson has played lock and played better than he has in the 2nd row for 150+ games.

Go Dogs

He’s only won the brad Fittler medal playing origin at lock
No biggie