Religious Discussion Thread

[Hacky McAxe]

Sorry Hacky, I forgot to reply directly.
I get what your saying, but at the end of the day human beings are fairly different to cakes.
I dont know how revelent it is to an athiest or even to most humans many of whom believe that we are born with certain characterstics which make them do certain things whether (good or bad), So I thought I'd copy for you, todays reading fron Vision Christian Media
Satan can attack you any time , anywhere. If you want to defeat him here are some tried and true principles you need to follow: (1) Guard your mind.You will never be defeated as long as your victorious in your mind, thats the birth place of everything you do. Satan knows that and he will try to get your thought so scarttered you wont be able to concentrate on whats important. Don't let him do it. Get back into focus, Isaiah said, you will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on you (Isaiah 26;3). Love people but trust God. Live by Scripture. " It is better to trust in the LORD than to put your confidence in man"(Plasms 118:08). When the devil wants to hurt you , he will often use a person to do it. Your enemy is anyone who attempts to thwart the will of God in your life. so identify such people and avoid them. God never commanded us to trust people. He comanded us to love people ---and trust Him. Understand the difference, for your victory depends on it. (3) Never give up Jesus said. No one who puts his hand on the plough and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God (Luke 9:62). Your dreams and goals are worth any fight, any price and any waiting period. Your faith is what defeats Satan. Remember Joseph? Every day of the adversity was just another stepping stone towards the throne. So keep walking and believing for their is victory ahead

Humans are different to cakes. And a Baker is different to God.

I use the analogy as it's relevant to God's ability. If God truly is all powerful, then making humans would be simpler than baking a cake. And not just Adam and Eve. All humans throughout history.

 

[Kelpie03]

Humans are different to cakes. And a Baker is different to God.

I use the analogy as it's relevant to God's ability. If God truly is all powerful, then making humans would be simpler than baking a cake. And not just Adam and Eve. All humans throughout history.

Humans need certain charatristics to survive in this rough world. If God had made humans with the charactristics which would ensure that they didn't do anything wrong/bad, He would have to spoon feed all of them and hold the hand while they are on earth.
I do believe that God created Humans but I don't think it is easier to make/create humans than it is to bake a cake.

 

[Kelpie03]

This is also a reading from VISION CHRISTIAN MEDIA (Corinthians 4:8).
It might help some understand why some are driven to do nasty things and others are driven by doing good to others (both their daily needs and their spiritual welfare).
Christian teachings and values should inspire those depressed and struggling to get their drive back and the will to win and live.

Satan can attack you anytime, and anywhere. If you want to defeat him here are some tried and true principles you need tofollow. (1) Guard your mind . You will never be defeated as long as your victorius in your mind, thats the birth place of everything you do. Satan knows that and he will try to get your thoughts so scattered, you won.t be able to concentrate on whats important. Don't let him do that. Get back into focus. Isaiah said you will keep him in perfect piece, whose mind is stayed on you: you: because he trusts in you, (Isaiah 26:3) (2) Love people, but trust God live by the scripture: "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118. 8). When the devil wants to hurt you, he will often use a person to do it.
Your 'enemy' is anyone attempts to thawart the will of God in your life, so identyify such people and avoid them. God never commanded us to trust people. He commanded us to love people and trust him. Understand the difference, for your victory depends on it. (3) No one who puts his hand on the plough and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God. (Luke9:62) Your dreams and goals are worth any fight, any price and any waiting period. Your faith is what defeates Satan. Remember Joseph? every day of adversity was another stepping stone towards the throne. So keep walking and believing for there is victory ahead.

 

[The DoggFather]

This is also a reading from VISION CHRISTIAN MEDIA (Corinthians 4:8).
It might help some understand why some are driven to do nasty things and others are driven by doing good to others (both their daily needs and their spiritual welfare).
Christian teachings and values should inspire those depressed and struggling to get their drive back and the will to win and live.

Satan can attack you anytime, and anywhere. If you want to defeat him here are some tried and true principles you need tofollow. (1) Guard your mind . You will never be defeated as long as your victorius in your mind, thats the birth place of everything you do. Satan knows that and he will try to get your thoughts so scattered, you won.t be able to concentrate on whats important. Don't let him do that. Get back into focus. Isaiah said you will keep him in perfect piece, whose mind is stayed on you: you: because he trusts in you, (Isaiah 26:3) (2) Love people, but trust God live by the scripture: "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118. 8). When the devil wants to hurt you, he will often use a person to do it.
Your 'enemy' is anyone attempts to thawart the will of God in your life, so identyify such people and avoid them. God never commanded us to trust people. He commanded us to love people and trust him. Understand the difference, for your victory depends on it. (3) No one who puts his hand on the plough and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God. (Luke9:62) Your dreams and goals are worth any fight, any price and any waiting period. Your faith is what defeates Satan. Remember Joseph? every day of adversity was another stepping stone towards the throne. So keep walking and believing for there is victory ahead.

Armour of God

 

[Hacky McAxe]

This thread went a bit quiet, so I thought I would add an interesting story I heard recently.

Georgetown College (major US College) was always heavily funded and supported by Catholic Jesuits due to their push for more knowledge. In the 1830s the college was financially struggling and on the verge of collapsing, so the Catholic Jesuits decided to gather money in an effort to save the college. The Catholic Jesuits only had one resource that was worth enough money. That was black slaves.

Leading up to this there was a long debate among the Catholics. They were trying to decide if they would keep the slaves, sell them, or set them free. Eventually the Jesuits chose to sell their slaves so that they could keep the college going, and use any additional money to help the Jesuit order. The other non-Jesuit Catholics chose to keep their slaves.

The investigation into this started due to Michelle Obama who is a descendant of one of those slaves. Ever since the stories came out, the Catholic Church has been running fund raisers in attempts to raise money or pay reparations to the descendants of their slaves, but unfortunately they haven't had much luck getting people to donate to the cause.

 

[The DoggFather]

This thread went a bit quiet, so I thought I would add an interesting story I heard recently.

Georgetown College (major US College) was always heavily funded and supported by Catholic Jesuits due to their push for more knowledge. In the 1830s the college was financially struggling and on the verge of collapsing, so the Catholic Jesuits decided to gather money in an effort to save the college. The Catholic Jesuits only had one resource that was worth enough money. That was black slaves.

Leading up to this there was a long debate among the Catholics. They were trying to decide if they would keep the slaves, sell them, or set them free. Eventually the Jesuits chose to sell their slaves so that they could keep the college going, and use any additional money to help the Jesuit order. The other non-Jesuit Catholics chose to keep their slaves.

The investigation into this started due to Michelle Obama who is a descendant of one of those slaves. Ever since the stories came out, the Catholic Church has been running fund raisers in attempts to raise money or pay reparations to the descendants of their slaves, but unfortunately they haven't had much luck getting people to donate to the cause.

I don't like or trust the Jesuits. IMO the serve the church more than they serve God.

 

[Kelpie03]

This thread went a bit quiet, so I thought I would add an interesting story I heard recently.

Georgetown College (major US College) was always heavily funded and supported by Catholic Jesuits due to their push for more knowledge. In the 1830s the college was financially struggling and on the verge of collapsing, so the Catholic Jesuits decided to gather money in an effort to save the college. The Catholic Jesuits only had one resource that was worth enough money. That was black slaves.

Leading up to this there was a long debate among the Catholics. They were trying to decide if they would keep the slaves, sell them, or set them free. Eventually the Jesuits chose to sell their slaves so that they could keep the college going, and use any additional money to help the Jesuit order. The other non-Jesuit Catholics chose to keep their slaves.

The investigation into this started due to Michelle Obama who is a descendant of one of those slaves. Ever since the stories came out, the Catholic Church has been running fund raisers in attempts to raise money or pay reparations to the descendants of their slaves, but unfortunately they haven't had much luck getting people to donate to the cause.

 

[Kelpie03]

This thread went a bit quiet, so I thought I would add an interesting story I heard recently.

Georgetown College (major US College) was always heavily funded and supported by Catholic Jesuits due to their push for more knowledge. In the 1830s the college was financially struggling and on the verge of collapsing, so the Catholic Jesuits decided to gather money in an effort to save the college. The Catholic Jesuits only had one resource that was worth enough money. That was black slaves.

Leading up to this there was a long debate among the Catholics. They were trying to decide if they would keep the slaves, sell them, or set them free. Eventually the Jesuits chose to sell their slaves so that they could keep the college going, and use any additional money to help the Jesuit order. The other non-Jesuit Catholics chose to keep their slaves.

The investigation into this started due to Michelle Obama who is a descendant of one of those slaves. Ever since the stories came out, the Catholic Church has been running fund raisers in attempts to raise money or pay reparations to the descendants of their slaves, but unfortunately they haven't had much luck getting people to donate to the cause.

Hi Hacky, thanks for keeping the thread going, been very sick for over a month now with the worst case of the flue ever. Must also say thank for pointing out bad people within the Catholic Church once gain. I agree that far to many people including some who call them selves Catholics, go along with the social trend without considering what God taught us and wants
As for me I dont make any excuses for the Jusits, Slavery should have been baned 2000 years ago when Jesus was still on earth. I suspect that the Church didn't condemn slavery, because in the OT servants were told to obey their master, I guess it was interperated as also refering to slaves.
I am fairly certain that the Catholic church was the first Religious Institution to condemn slavery.
Many years later in the US the deepely religious south,includingthe southern Baptists fought a war to hold on to their right to own slaves.
I also read that even in the 20 th centery the K K K were signling out and lynching Blacks, I recall many years ogo Presenter Bill Peach saying from memory that thousands of blacks were lynched with zero convictians.I believe that these fanaticals were staunch Southern Baptists who also hated
and vigirously percuiited Catholics and Jews.
I was aquianted with an American back in the 1970-80, he blamed the English for bringing the African slaves into America

 

[Mr 95%]

Hi Hacky, thanks for keeping the thread going, been very sick for over a month now with the worst case of the flue ever. Must also say thank for pointing out bad people within the Catholic Church once gain. I agree that far to many people including some who call them selves Catholics, go along with the social trend without considering what God taught us and wants
As for me I dont make any excuses for the Jusits, Slavery should have been baned 2000 years ago when Jesus was still on earth. I suspect that the Church didn't condemn slavery, because in the OT servants were told to obey their master, I guess it was interperated as also refering to slaves.
I am fairly certain that the Catholic church was the first Religious Institution to condemn slavery.
Many years later in the US the deepely religious south,includingthe southern Baptists fought a war to hold on to their right to own slaves.
I also read that even in the 20 th centery the K K K were signling out and lynching Blacks, I recall many years ogo Presenter Bill Peach saying from memory that thousands of blacks were lynched with zero convictians.I believe that these fanaticals were staunch Southern Baptists who also hated
and vigirously percuiited Catholics and Jews.
I was aquianted with an American back in the 1970-80, he blamed the English for bringing the African slaves into America

Hope you feeling better Kelpie..

 

[Kelpie03]

I don't like or trust the Jesuits. IMO the serve the church more than they serve God.

You are correct in pointing out that some religious people, no doubt including some Jesuit Priests see their Church above God, which you and i agree is wrong, the first thought for all Christians should be to serve God, in our case the Christian God. the problem as I see it is the often made mistake of not been able to see the wood for the trees.
I have been to a few non Catholic so called Christian functions,(by invite) and the main theam of the speakers was to point out the bad practices of some Catholics. I have never heard a Catholic Priest and a few were Jeusits rubbish protestants or other Religious institution.
Many non Cathoics don't see the need for a Central controling authority, which in the Catholic Church is the Pope.
I believe that comparing a Central Controling Authority, with a fragminted NON Authority is like comparing our current system with our pre Colonisation days, as bad as it is I rather our current system to the alternative, with all its faults and corruption.

 

[The DoggFather]

You are correct in pointing out that some religious people, no doubt including some Jesuit Priests see their Church above God, which you and i agree is wrong, the first thought for all Christians should be to serve God, in our case the Christian God. the problem as I see it is the often made mistake of not been able to see the wood for the trees.
I have been to a few non Catholic so called Christian functions,(by invite) and the main theam of the speakers was to point out the bad practices of some Catholics. I have never heard a Catholic Priest and a few were Jeusits rubbish protestants or other Religious institution.
Many non Cathoics don't see the need for a Central controling authority, which in the Catholic Church is the Pope.
I believe that comparing a Central Controling Authority, with a fragminted NON Authority is like comparing our current system with our pre Colonisation days, as bad as it is I rather our current system to the alternative, with all its faults and corruption.

Cathoilcs very rarely get mentioned in my Church (Orthodox).

All due respect, we focus on Biblical matters as much as possible.

I know the 7th Day Adventists LOVE to rip into you guys and appears it was created just to hate on Catholics.

 

[Kelpie03]

Cathoilcs very rarely get mentioned in my Church (Orthodox).

All due respect, we focus on Biblical matters as much as possible.

I know the 7th Day Adventists LOVE to rip into you guys and appears it was created just to hate on Catholics.

When I refer to Protestants I have never considered Orthodox as protestants. Learned back in primary school that we were allowed to attend Orthodox masses and receive communion. Virtually all Protastants hate the Catholic Church, and many of their top brass are Freemasons.
I read an artical in the Catholic Weekley written by Fr. Faver O.D. only very recently, about the 2 groups of Orthodox, ie the far eastern group comprosing the Arab countries and the western group Greeks and Russians., but nothing he wrote was in any way defamatery.
BTW for the antii Catholic Liberals on TK, i thought that your Bishop Mar Mary Emanuel was more out spoken against the sex liberalism and corruption than most Catholic Priests.

 

[The DoggFather]

When I refer to Protestants I have never considered Orthodox as protestants. Learned back in primary school that we were allowed to attend Orthodox masses and receive communion. Virtually all Protastants hate the Catholic Church, and many of their top brass are Freemasons.
I read an artical in the Catholic Weekley written by Fr. Faver O.D. only very recently, about the 2 groups of Orthodox, ie the far eastern group comprosing the Arab countries and the western group Greeks and Russians., but nothing he wrote was in any way defamatery.
BTW for the antii Catholic Liberals on TK, i thought that your Bishop Mar Mary Emanuel was more out spoken against the sex liberalism and corruption than most Catholic Priests.

Well the Orthodox Church is an Apostolic Church. Plus the traditionalist Catholics love our masses as we have kept them traditional IE not a "drive thru" service as Mar Mari says. Plus when 90% of the mass is in the language Jesus Himself spoke just makes it more special.

Yeah, Mar Mari has the guts to stick to the Bible and not bow down to agendas. We get a lot of Catholics come to our Friday night preach. In fact we have a few Muslim families and even Hindus that regularly come and listen. They like how staunch he is against worldly bullshit.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

This thread has gone quiet again. So a quick update on what's going on in the world of religion.

In Pakistan two Christians were accused of tearing pages out of the Quran. In response at least 7,000 Muslims have entered the Christian minority area, raided homes, attacked Christians, and burnt down at least 4 churches.

It's important to note that there's currently no evidence these Christians desecrated the Quran. People in the area have a habit of making false allegations against Christians if they have a dispute with them. In the past at least 12 Christians have been killed by lynch mobs after accusations were made that they insulted Muhammad, or desecrated the Quran.

 

[Art Vandelay]

This thread has gone quiet again. So a quick update on what's going on in the world of religion.

In Pakistan two Christians were accused of tearing pages out of the Quran. In response at least 7,000 Muslims have entered the Christian minority area, raided homes, attacked Christians, and burnt down at least 4 churches.

It's important to note that there's currently no evidence these Christians desecrated the Quran. People in the area have a habit of making false allegations against Christians if they have a dispute with them. In the past at least 12 Christians have been killed by lynch mobs after accusations were made that they insulted Muhammad, or desecrated the Quran.

Terrible to hear people acting this way.
Romans 3:23

 

[Art Vandelay]

Seriously

https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/world-cup/muslim-preacher-warns-its-haram-to-watch-the-matildas/news-story/13a1d50f96ca48c115da938110377e87

 

[Kelpie03]

Its obvious that so many people (CANT or DONT WANT) to consider the possibility of the existant of a GOD, and the reason/reasons are many and varied.
Perhaps the reason is documented in the bible where Jesus said ( MANY ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN).
Its dissappointed that so many non-believers don't want to see the value of having FAITH in GOD.
I thought I'd pass on a poem written by an elder of our Church.

FAITH FOR WHO BELIEVES
IS A GREAT REALITY
IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS DEEP INSIDE YOU
THAT OTHERS CANNOT SEE.

FAITH IS SOMETHING
THAT YOU CANNOT TOUCH WITH YOUR HANDS
EITHER YESTERDAY AND TODAY
THAT WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TOMORROWW.

FOR THOSE WHO WANT IT THEY WILL FIND IT
IT CANNOT BE BOUGHT WITH MONEY
ONLY THE HEART CAN HAVE IT
BECAUSE IT KNOWS HOW TO LOVE.

FOR THOSE WHO PRACTICE IT
THEY WILL HAVE NO ONE TO FEAR
ITS NATURE IS DIVINE
IT WILL SET US FREE IN THIS LIFE
AND GAIN US ETERNITY IN THE NEXT

 

[Kelpie03]

When it comes to morality and social ethics, any mention of the slippery slop affect on society is usually laughed or bitterily condemed by our athiests, so I thought that 1'd post a some points I found in the Family Life International booklet which is sent to me.

Peter Singer is Professer of Bioethics at Princetown University, and Laureate Professor at Melbourne University's Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics.
It was reportered that for 20 years he has never ceased to advocate abortion, euthanasia and infanticide, he also advocated that the murder of disabled infants can be justified, and that legal sanctions against it, should be relaxed. He also stated that the grounds for not killing persons should not apply to newborn infants, "since newborn babies cannot see themselves as beings who might or might not have a future, so they cannot have a desire to continue living.

In 2012 the then Governer- General of Australia Quentin Bryce, made him a Champion of the order of Australia (AC), and stated that "these awards reconise shining examples of men and women who display the finest community values of respect and giving, dedication and commitment.

THANK YOU GOOD PEOPLE FOR YOUR ATTEMPT TO DEVALUE HUMAN LIFE. AND FOR SENDING OUR SOCIETY FURTHER DOWN THE SLIERY SLOPE

Keeping a posivive attitude, "a heart at peace giges life to the body" From Vision Christian media.
Keeping a positive attitude isn't always easy; it requires mental discipline. Lets face it 95% of what we see and hear on the news today is negative. And while you can't bury your head in the sand, you must protect your mind against the " GRAVITATIONAL PULL" of negative influences around you. This calls for constantly doing two things . 1 Arresting the wrong thoughts. Casting down arguments of every high thing that exaults itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ (2 Coninthians 10:5) Take your wrong thoughts captive; otherwise they will take you captive, 2 Activating the right thoughts. ie. Whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is any praiseworthy- meditate on these things...and the a God of peace will be with you (Philippians 4:8-9 ). Knowing that God is in control of your life and he is directing your steps will enable you to keep a good attitude when you're faced with things like long Queues, trails and adversities. Your attitude not only affects the quality of life but also the length of it: Solomon said, 'A heart at peace gives life to the body. ' (Proverbs 14: 30) Medical science has proven that people with a strong faith who are diagnosed with a terminal illnessess tend to outlive their prognosis and their predicated life span.
So the word today is---keep a positive attitude

 

[Hacky McAxe]

When it comes to morality and social ethics, any mention of the slippery slop affect on society is usually laughed or bitterily condemed by our athiests, so I thought that 1'd post a some points I found in the Family Life International booklet which is sent to me.

Peter Singer is Professer of Bioethics at Princetown University, and Laureate Professor at Melbourne University's Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics.
It was reportered that for 20 years he has never ceased to advocate abortion, euthanasia and infanticide, he also advocated that the murder of disabled infants can be justified, and that legal sanctions against it, should be relaxed. He also stated that the grounds for not killing persons should not apply to newborn infants, "since newborn babies cannot see themselves as beings who might or might not have a future, so they cannot have a desire to continue living.

That's not true at all. If that's the exact wording the pamphlet used, then whoever wrote the pamphlet is lying.

Singer has said, and written, some terrible sounding stuff. But he didn't say that the grounds for not killing should not apply to newborn babies. He stated that if a child is suffering and has no potential for living a full life, then it should not be considered murder if a Doctor helps the family through euthanasia. And he also stated that while he sees an ethical difference between a baby dying and an adult dying, a baby's death still holds the same problems as its the family that suffer the death of the child.

When asked about his stance on healthy babies, he stated:

"What about a baby without any disability? Doesn’t your theory of personhood imply that parents can kill any baby they do not want, because it has no sense of the future?"

"Most parents, fortunately, love their children and would be horrified by the idea of killing it. And that’s a good thing, of course. We want to encourage parents to care for their children, and help them to do so. Moreover, although no newborn baby has a sense of the future, and therefore no newborn baby is a person, that does not mean that it is all right to kill any newborn baby. It only means that the wrong done to the infant is not as great as the wrong that would be done to a person who was killed. But in our society there are many couples who would be very happy to love and care for an infant without serious disabilities. Hence even if the parents do not want their own child, it would be wrong to kill it."

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Personally I don't exact agree with Singer's ethical standpoint as it is an attempt to treat a human as a logic problem (like any philosopher does), but he didn't advocate for killing healthy newborn children like is suggested.

I personally think Singer goes a little too far. He advocates euthanasia for disabled children, even if they are not in pain or on life support. Personally I think it's morally and ethically sound to carry out euthanasia if the child is suffering extreme pain with no hope for recovery. Keeping that child alive would be disgusting regardless of what your beliefs are. But if a child is born with a disability, I don't think that's enough of a justification for euthanasia.