"Rebuilding"

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Oatley Dog

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[QUOTE="c-b-b, post: 3376308, member: 20561"
That's an interesting theory but what's to be gained by pretending we are close to the cap and not signing anyone. And what's to be achieved by using kids in a squad when according to what you're saying we have plenty of cash available to sign better players. Which club would want to go through even a couple of year of unnecessary pain when they could be signing players. I can't see any logical reason for it.
It as simple as looking at the squad.
We have 3 players $700k plus Klemmer, Jackson & Foran.
2 around $500k Tolman & Hopoate. Hopoate probably less.
No one else above $300k.
You tell me how we can be in "salary cap trouble"
Whole thing/story is bullshit.
For what purpose you ask? No idea but I know it's bullshit.[/QUOTE]
And you know this because you have been told about one players contract (not seen it mind you?) Mate I will go with what the people who are in charge of it all have told me thanks very much. We were that far up the creek that we were on dry land, now we are on the creek but we haven't got a paddle.... Even Hill has said there were quite a number with ratchet clauses. Even with Mbye and Woods now gone there are still quite a few in the mix and we are talking about 25%+ bumps not 5-10%. Effectively our cap is about $6.6m instead of $9.4m due to the ratchet clauses and don't forget this year at least we have been paying for all those who have now gone and prob a couple more next year as well.
 

nangsta

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LOL

Dogs recruitment: Jack Cogger, Nick Meaney, Chris Smith.
Storm recruitment: Albert Vete, Tom Eisenhuth, and Marion Seve.

In that same period.

LOL
thats the part that worries me.

and with the club supposedly not looking to resign the morris bros is this the backline we will be looking at with players like Montoya, Holland , Smith, Crighton.

we are headed for the spoon next year if we dont improve this roster
 

Trafford10

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It as simple as looking at the squad.
We have 3 players $700k plus Klemmer, Jackson & Foran.
2 around $500k Tolman & Hopoate. Hopoate probably less.
No one else above $300k.
You tell me how we can be in "salary cap trouble"
Whole thing/story is bullshit.
For what purpose you ask? No idea but I know it's bullshit.
And you know this because you have been told about one players contract (not seen it mind you?) Mate I will go with what the people who are in charge of it all have told me thanks very much. We were that far up the creek that we were on dry land, now we are on the creek but we haven't got a paddle.... Even Hill has said there were quite a number with ratchet clauses. Even with Mbye and Woods now gone there are still quite a few in the mix and we are talking about 25%+ bumps not 5-10%. Effectively our cap is about $6.6m instead of $9.4m due to the ratchet clauses and don't forget this year at least we have been paying for all those who have now gone and prob a couple more next year as well.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, but I know.
In 2019 as it stands now we have by far the weakest roster in the NRL and not just by a little bit but by a country mile the weakest roster.
Looking at our player list there is no way it can be close to $9.6m
I just do not believe it.
And while the club will again be paying for players to pay elsewhere (i.e Woods $150k & Mybe $200k) that is a lot less than the $700k this season they are forking out for Graham & Kasiano.
You say you have been told that they are working with only $6.6m but what have you been told? There is no detail.
Explain it to me, who, how much & how long?
I stand by my assessment, in that our squad for next season we have 5 maybe 4 players that have a market value abouve $500k. How can we be pushing the cap with virtually no big name players?
 

Oatley Dog

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And you know this because you have been told about one players contract (not seen it mind you?) Mate I will go with what the people who are in charge of it all have told me thanks very much. We were that far up the creek that we were on dry land, now we are on the creek but we haven't got a paddle.... Even Hill has said there were quite a number with ratchet clauses. Even with Mbye and Woods now gone there are still quite a few in the mix and we are talking about 25%+ bumps not 5-10%. Effectively our cap is about $6.6m instead of $9.4m due to the ratchet clauses and don't forget this year at least we have been paying for all those who have now gone and prob a couple more next year as well.
I don't know, but I know.
In 2019 as it stands now we have by far the weakest roster in the NRL and not just by a little bit but by a country mile the weakest roster.
Looking at our player list there is no way it can be close to $9.6m
I just do not believe it.
And while the club will again be paying for players to pay elsewhere (i.e Woods $150k & Mybe $200k) that is a lot less than the $700k this season they are forking out for Graham & Kasiano.
You say you have been told that they are working with only $6.6m but what have you been told? There is no detail.
Explain it to me, who, how much & how long?
I stand by my assessment, in that our squad for next season we have 5 maybe 4 players that have a market value abouve $500k. How can we be pushing the cap with virtually no big name players?[/QUOTE]
Mate, simple maths. The cap went from $7m+ to $9.4m and going to $9.6m next season. A large number of players who signed before the cap was finalised had ratchet clauses inserted to say whatever they signed for there and then would be boosted by the change value in the cap. That's around 27%. Worse still, that 27% is applied to what will be the backended value of their contracts, so Klemm, JJ, Hoppa, Foran and no doubt a number of the other lesser lights are getting even more dough next year in any event.

So whatever they signed for prior to about April 2017 goes up by a total of 27% next season (25% of which they got this year including Woods and Mbye who we have already paid). Essentially for practical purposes because so much of our cap was tied up before the new cap came in that means we have nothing left because all the increases have been chewed up. Whatever we are paying for Woods and Mbye next year is in there as well.

You talk about blokes being on $700k - thats the average over the 3 years. They played for bugger all last year and are getting a bomb in the next 2 years with a 27% loading. That's what is killing us - the combination not one or the other. 25% of $700k is only $175k extra. 25% of $1.1m is $275k so the difference is an extra $500k per person. That is the sort of thing that has happened and explains why they simply had to let players go. Just the 4 blokes you are talking about soak up an extra $2m between them. Now add it all the others and you can see how it disappeared pretty quickly.

To be fair no-one in the club has given me numbers but they have given me an explanation of how it went south. I've just used the numbers to give it perspective. The cap is what it is so that percentage is pretty right, but no-one really knows what each of them are on next year specifically other than the club itself of course but there is a lot on anger within the footy club that it has happened this way. That bit I am sure of.
 

Dognacious

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Alot is made of this word.. for me these 3-5year plans are a myth & unnecessary & a clubs fortunes can change dramatically through smart recruitment/retention within a year or 2

Its been done many times before where teams improve dramatically off the back of one year of good recruitment..

It happened to us in 2000 for 2001 also in 2008 for 2009 with Jmoz, Stagg, Ennis, Hannant, Kimmorley, Eastwood

Several Teams have won the comp after a poor previous seasons just on bringing the right personell
2005 Tigers Scott Prince
2010 Dragons Bennett Boyd Weyman JSmith etc
2013 Roosters SBW Maloney Jennings Oddonnell
2016 Sharks Added Maloney Ennis Barba Townsend that year and the year previous & finally fixed there attack issues

This season the Panthers fortunes have changed dramatically on the back of swapping Moylan for Maloney

At present we have rookie coach, inexperienced pack, rookie spine.. our focus needs to be on recruiting experienced NRL players . Scouting for talented kids should always be happening but that wont bring this team up & out of where we are in the near future.

For this reason keeping experienced players that perform consistently well like the Morris Brothers for eg is important, & I felt the same about hanging onto Woods

Our FG Squad has been stripped to its bare bones with only Klemmer, Jacko , the Morris Bros & Hoppa & Tolman the players we can rely on at present for experience & leadership

The constant talk of recruiting kids is good but it wont solve our problems. The only additions for next year so far is Cogger & Meaney & both are kids not ready for FG at moment.

We surely have opened up salary cap space for next season. The next 4 months are crucial & the club has a hugely important job with recruiting good solid players to strengthen our squad for next season.
Obviously we have to, and have started to, shed players to a) be under tbe cap next year then b) have enough cap space to buy a top line player, first.

A lot will hinge on foran. If 9 months off playing doesnt get his body right nothing will and we would have to pay him out and sack him. That would be big player signing money in cap space freed up. If he comes good somehow, then he is a big player.
 
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KLil

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Thats exactly why I said we need a real ISP coach. Not a pretender.
We need smart, young up n coming assistants more than anything. Not sold on Antonelli and Penna at ALL!
 

Dannyboi88

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This is what is happening. We have got rid of the rabble we had in the front office and replaced them with a business driven group of achievers.
We are actively recruiting youth with ability, and hopefully we can recruit a team leader to take control on the paddock. The team is sadly lacking a capable leader.
They dont seem to be able to close out a game, and put the set plays into motion.
I know and although it seems shit atm the current board are making the decisions now culling what we can while our year is sadly done we won’t make the 8 take the hits now
 

CMP

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He might not be part of the ongoing problem, but the example of Eastwood’s contract.

Where he has been getting $200k for the last few years but this year he is on $800k.

Heavy backend deals are the problem. Anyone saying it’s only the three or four players on big money have their heads buried in the sand.

Players through no fault of their own are on massive overs.

We have squad players being paid $300k-$400k over the next couple of years. They signed for minimum wage year 1 which is unders. That wage grows at the end of the contract. To a figure that is ridiculously over.

Des was after a quick fix Premiership and it didn’t work.
 

Trafford10

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I don't know, but I know.
In 2019 as it stands now we have by far the weakest roster in the NRL and not just by a little bit but by a country mile the weakest roster.
Looking at our player list there is no way it can be close to $9.6m
I just do not believe it.
And while the club will again be paying for players to pay elsewhere (i.e Woods $150k & Mybe $200k) that is a lot less than the $700k this season they are forking out for Graham & Kasiano.
You say you have been told that they are working with only $6.6m but what have you been told? There is no detail.
Explain it to me, who, how much & how long?
I stand by my assessment, in that our squad for next season we have 5 maybe 4 players that have a market value abouve $500k. How can we be pushing the cap with virtually no big name players?
Mate, simple maths. The cap went from $7m+ to $9.4m and going to $9.6m next season. A large number of players who signed before the cap was finalised had ratchet clauses inserted to say whatever they signed for there and then would be boosted by the change value in the cap. That's around 27%. Worse still, that 27% is applied to what will be the backended value of their contracts, so Klemm, JJ, Hoppa, Foran and no doubt a number of the other lesser lights are getting even more dough next year in any event.

So whatever they signed for prior to about April 2017 goes up by a total of 27% next season (25% of which they got this year including Woods and Mbye who we have already paid). Essentially for practical purposes because so much of our cap was tied up before the new cap came in that means we have nothing left because all the increases have been chewed up. Whatever we are paying for Woods and Mbye next year is in there as well.

You talk about blokes being on $700k - thats the average over the 3 years. They played for bugger all last year and are getting a bomb in the next 2 years with a 27% loading. That's what is killing us - the combination not one or the other. 25% of $700k is only $175k extra. 25% of $1.1m is $275k so the difference is an extra $500k per person. That is the sort of thing that has happened and explains why they simply had to let players go. Just the 4 blokes you are talking about soak up an extra $2m between them. Now add it all the others and you can see how it disappeared pretty quickly.

To be fair no-one in the club has given me numbers but they have given me an explanation of how it went south. I've just used the numbers to give it perspective. The cap is what it is so that percentage is pretty right, but no-one really knows what each of them are on next year specifically other than the club itself of course but there is a lot on anger within the footy club that it has happened this way. That bit I am sure of.[/QUOTE]

I can tell you for sure Tolman's contact had no such ratchet clause in line with the increase in the salary cap.
How is that even possible given the NRL salary cap was subject to negotiation with the RLPA, that the number of players under the cap increased from 25 to 30 and that the minimum wage was increased to $100,000 for players 1 to 26.
So not talking apples & apples when talking 2017 cap to 2018 cap.
Notwithstanding rachet clauses, as it stands now we know the following players salaries are not in the picture for 2019.
Mybe: $700
Woods: $650
Graham: $500
Kasiano: $200
Bmoz: $600
Jmoz: $650
Eastwood: $800

That is $4.1 million.
Frawley & Cleeland won't be resigned.
And who have we signed for next season, the two Newcastle guys at around $200 each a few other young blokes.

The numbers are obvious this so called "salary cap crisis" is the smokescreen being used for the clean out going on and as a negotiation tactic.
 

NQ Dog

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its ok to talk about salary cap ect but we need to make the club attractive to free agents, the whole bulldogs image has been stripped away
Spot on mate.
Who wants to play at a struggling Club? Nobody.
 

Heckler

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Quickest "rebuild" in history!
 

Oatley Dog

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Mate, simple maths. The cap went from $7m+ to $9.4m and going to $9.6m next season. A large number of players who signed before the cap was finalised had ratchet clauses inserted to say whatever they signed for there and then would be boosted by the change value in the cap. That's around 27%. Worse still, that 27% is applied to what will be the backended value of their contracts, so Klemm, JJ, Hoppa, Foran and no doubt a number of the other lesser lights are getting even more dough next year in any event.

So whatever they signed for prior to about April 2017 goes up by a total of 27% next season (25% of which they got this year including Woods and Mbye who we have already paid). Essentially for practical purposes because so much of our cap was tied up before the new cap came in that means we have nothing left because all the increases have been chewed up. Whatever we are paying for Woods and Mbye next year is in there as well.

You talk about blokes being on $700k - thats the average over the 3 years. They played for bugger all last year and are getting a bomb in the next 2 years with a 27% loading. That's what is killing us - the combination not one or the other. 25% of $700k is only $175k extra. 25% of $1.1m is $275k so the difference is an extra $500k per person. That is the sort of thing that has happened and explains why they simply had to let players go. Just the 4 blokes you are talking about soak up an extra $2m between them. Now add it all the others and you can see how it disappeared pretty quickly.

To be fair no-one in the club has given me numbers but they have given me an explanation of how it went south. I've just used the numbers to give it perspective. The cap is what it is so that percentage is pretty right, but no-one really knows what each of them are on next year specifically other than the club itself of course but there is a lot on anger within the footy club that it has happened this way. That bit I am sure of.
I can tell you for sure Tolman's contact had no such ratchet clause in line with the increase in the salary cap.
How is that even possible given the NRL salary cap was subject to negotiation with the RLPA, that the number of players under the cap increased from 25 to 30 and that the minimum wage was increased to $100,000 for players 1 to 26.
So not talking apples & apples when talking 2017 cap to 2018 cap.
Notwithstanding rachet clauses, as it stands now we know the following players salaries are not in the picture for 2019.
Mybe: $700
Woods: $650
Graham: $500
Kasiano: $200
Bmoz: $600
Jmoz: $650
Eastwood: $800

That is $4.1 million.
Frawley & Cleeland won't be resigned.
And who have we signed for next season, the two Newcastle guys at around $200 each a few other young blokes.

The numbers are obvious this so called "salary cap crisis" is the smokescreen being used for the clean out going on and as a negotiation tactic.[/QUOTE]
OK too good for me. I can't wait for all the marquee signings to pop up in the next couple of months then........Some should tell McDonnell though because he isn't looking for anyone.
 

Trafford10

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I can tell you for sure Tolman's contact had no such ratchet clause in line with the increase in the salary cap.
How is that even possible given the NRL salary cap was subject to negotiation with the RLPA, that the number of players under the cap increased from 25 to 30 and that the minimum wage was increased to $100,000 for players 1 to 26.
So not talking apples & apples when talking 2017 cap to 2018 cap.
Notwithstanding rachet clauses, as it stands now we know the following players salaries are not in the picture for 2019.
Mybe: $700
Woods: $650
Graham: $500
Kasiano: $200
Bmoz: $600
Jmoz: $650
Eastwood: $800

That is $4.1 million.
Frawley & Cleeland won't be resigned.
And who have we signed for next season, the two Newcastle guys at around $200 each a few other young blokes.

The numbers are obvious this so called "salary cap crisis" is the smokescreen being used for the clean out going on and as a negotiation tactic.
OK too good for me. I can't wait for all the marquee signings to pop up in the next couple of months then........Some should tell McDonnell though because he isn't looking for anyone.
Look I respect what you say.
Your posts are always great.
But I just can't see it.
The players that have gone, the 2019 squad that remains, I just believe we are even close to $9.6.
Agree I will have wait and see.
 
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Oatley Dog

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Look I respect what you say.
Your posts are always great.
But I just can't see it.
The players that have gone, the 2019 squad that remains, I just believe we are even close to $9.6.
Agree I will have wait and see.
Mate, if you have a look from probably a month or two ago I was with you on the cap thing. Just couldn't see it, but when these blokes look you in the eyes and they tell you we are shot you just have to believe them. Just the frustration in their voices makes you feel sorry for the blokes trying to fix it. They are still spewing about not being able to get Maloney for a lot less (had him hooked) than what Des demanded we sign Foran for and now look at us.
 
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Scoooby

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let’s just watch on an see how it all plays out! It’s interesting an exciting an full of twists an turns.
 

speedy2460

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I think the club is rebuilding nicely. The old administration is gone and we now need to remove the stench. That is slowly happening.
1) We have shed a few highly paid under performing players.
2) The club is seeking new younger, cheaper players to develop.
3) The ISP players now have an opportunity they didnt have before.
4) The club is seeking a couple of higher profile players as we speak.
The biggest downside is we need a coach to develop the ISP and junior players. We just dont have anyone.
Georgallis Penna and Antonelli are simply not the answer.
 

doggieaaron

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I think we will be competitive alot quicker than people think and i love pay finally picking youth
 
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