POLL on if Dogs should have made an official offer to Mitchell

[Teddybear]

Really good insight mate, great post actually.
You do realise though that latrell is 3 x times the player idris ever was or was going to be.
He would at least get us out of the doldrums in the next 2 years, after that if he goes awol we will just have to deal with it.
I do believe this kid has a certain arrogance in him, which is a good thing because I reackon he has got a lot to prove, scores to settle , and be his own man instead of others taking the credit.
Having said that though it would be interesting to hear what rIckys view would be on latrell.

TPA are supposed to be outside the cap so whatever they are they are.

What is important is what he costs us under the cap.

I would pay $800 000 max, preferably less. His upside is huge and if we can make him happy he would be worth the million, but his downside is just as big and he has the potential to be a massive waste of money. No player in a stable headspace would talk about retirement in any way shape or form at 22. Almost all want to postpone retirement past their used-by date. Also their are warning signs like other players advising him to stay at the Roosters and how the Players association has publicly stated they will keep an eye on his mental state. Big red flags for me.

After Idris had his breakout year and was looking at his next contract I remember reading an article written by Ricky Stuart that basically said that young players don't know themselves yet. They know they are happy and in an environment that allows them to perform at their best even though they may not understand why and won't until they mature and understand themselves and their game better. He advised him to stay at the Dogs because he may not understand why he was happy and that environment allowed him to prosper and by chasing the $$$s he would enter a new environment that may not suit him as well and detract from him, his form and eventually his mental state. In the end and with hindsight Stuart was right and we all know what happened to his career.

I think Mitchell is at the same place in his career and him leaving the Roosters is a massive risk for himself and whatever club he signs for.

 

[bradtalo]

Highly possible that no club has truly offered him a million. It could just be that his manager has been trying to play this out through the media to push the price up.

Even if he was asking for a MIL a season seems like no-one is really offering it at the moment. Roosters "reportedly" offered 800K then pulled it so their offer is now $0 so 850K if we offered may be looking pretty sweet right now. We should consider offering that with the condition it has to be signed within 7 days or it will become null and void. Why not play like the Roosters do ? 850K is probably about the same as what we're paying for Elliott, Holland and Montoya per year, I'd be happy to swap those 3 for him. He'd outscore all 3 of them combined in any season.

 

[DinkumDog]

after that if he goes awol we will just have to deal with it.

That’s what doesn’t past the smell test for me.
Foran has worked out badly - different circumstances obviously - but why keep risking/repeating these expensive mistakes? Because the potential upside is massive? So is the potential downside!

 

[Teddybear]

Did you expect fifita to do what he did?
What about fanua Blake, so loved on the kennel here as a recruit we should have pursued.
Dr Belin? Adam Elliott The list goes on.
What is not right and does not sit well with me is so called experts already marking latrells cards*..

That’s what doesn’t past the smell test for me.
Foran has worked out badly - different circumstances obviously - but why keep risking/repeating these expensive mistakes? Because the potential upside is massive? So is the potential downside!

 

[bradtalo]

I dont think he is even worth 800k the way he played this year so no point offering anything. He needs to improve his attitude

Do you think Elliott, Holland and Montoya played any better for the 800K we paid them this year ? Who scored more points them 3 combined or Mitchell ? Can't see those 3 improving anything at all.

 

[bradtalo]

Let it go

Can't let it go til he's signed with someone. Now the Roosters offer is ZERO and no-one else seems to have made a firm offer IF we offered 850K for 3-5 years it could look pretty sweet. We could put a timeline on the offer of 7 days only to sign or it becomes null and void. I can't believe people who would whinge about spending 850K when we paid about the same this year for Elliott, Holland and Montoya (2 of them to play a lot of reserve grade even). Who scored more tries, more points, them 3 combined or Mitchell ?. We know the answer.

Yes he's a risk but so is everybody. Less of a risk than Joey Leilua who has a f..ked neck. If we were chasing "Luke f..king Keary" some on here would be complaining he's a concussion risk, Munster might hit his girlfriend one day or go to Bali, Foran might get injured and be out for 6 months (oh he already is) who knows ? All I know is we desperately need a weapon outside back NOW but got to wait til 2021 so we can get rid of Holland, we're definitely not getting new halves any time soon. We can afford Mitchell and he's the best attacking outside back or at least in the top 3 in the NRL but no some people don't want him ???

The Roosters are doing a very good job scaring people off him for next season by wanting compensation on top of his salary. We're playing right into their hands by not offering at least 850K for 2021 onwards. Don't be surprised if they suddenly reinstate their offer and extend him for a few more years for unders then the Roosters will remain as strong for another few more years and keep winning comps. Is that what we want ?

 

[bradyk]

Can't let it go til he's signed with someone. Now the Roosters offer is ZERO and no-one else seems to have made a firm offer IF we offered 850K for 3-5 years it could look pretty sweet. We could put a timeline on the offer of 7 days only to sign or it becomes null and void. I can't believe people who would whinge about spending 850K when we paid about the same this year for Elliott, Holland and Montoya (2 of them to play a lot of reserve grade even). Who scored more tries, more points, them 3 combined or Mitchell ?. We know the answer.

Yes he's a risk but so is everybody. Less of a risk than Joey Leilua who has a f..ked neck. If we were chasing "Luke f..king Keary" some on here would be complaining he's a concussion risk, Munster might hit his girlfriend one day who knows ? All I know is we desperately need a star outside back NOW but got to wait til 2021 so we can get rid of Holland, we're definitely not getting new halves any time soon. We can afford Mitchell and he's the best attacking outside back or at least in the top 3 in the NRL but no some people don't want him ???

The Roosters are doing a very good job scaring people off him for next season by wanting compensation on top of his salary. We're playing right into their hands by not offering at least 850K for 2021 onwards. Don't be surprised if they suddenly reinstate their offer and extend him for a few more years for unders then the Roosters will remain as strong for another few more years and keep winning comps. Is that what we want ?

Even if they replace Latrell with Billy Smith (I'd assume close to minimum wage) and use the Latrell money to upgrade a different position (or Centre) there is a chance the player they bring in doesn't fit/work out (similar to Crichton). Until the Roosters don't get their recruitment right they're always going to be dominant. If no one steals their players there is almost no chance they're falling. It will take overs to steal/lure their players but that's not just from us but everyone (so even if they do lose a player they're still winning because they force other clubs to pay overs - if the player doesn't perform... well twice as good for them).

 

[DinkumDog]

Did you expect fifita to do what he did?
What about fanua Blake, so loved on the kennel here as a recruit we should have pursued.
Dr Belin? Adam Elliott The list goes on.
What is not right and does not sit well with me is so called experts already marking latrells cards*..

People are saying Fifita worth $1m.
Bali proved no 19 year old is ready for that sort of money, responsibility and pressure.

Well, rugby league players at least.
Tennis players seem to handle it OK.

That might be where the game needs to step up more with player welfare/management.
If top dollar is going to be thrown at them it should be ensured they can handle everything that goes with it. Grubby managers muddy the water, not make these situations better.

As for the rest of your player examples, they’re not $1m players or close to - so although that’s not the only measurement - a key part of the Mitchell (and now it seems Fifita) issue is: with big buck investment must come ROI. That’s on everyone to figure out - the governing body, the clubs, the players and their families....

 

[steeliz]

Really good insight mate, great post actually.
You do realise though that latrell is 3 x times the player idris ever was or was going to be.
He would at least get us out of the doldrums in the next 2 years, after that if he goes awol we will just have to deal with it.
I do believe this kid has a certain arrogance in him, which is a good thing because I reackon he has got a lot to prove, scores to settle , and be his own man instead of others taking the credit.
Having said that though it would be interesting to hear what rIckys view would be on latrell.

I agree with his talent. I think potentially he has the ability to be considered as an immortal in 15 years.

Hope I am wrong but the constant referencing of his mental state is concerning. Couple that with the fact he has won GFs, been part of a SOO team that broke the Qld domination, played for Australia and makes more money that than all of us I am not sure what he has left to prove, in his head.

You just don't hear of other players his age talk about retirement.

Too many clubs are also backing out after talking to him. The Roosters are letting him go way too easily, we are backing out, the Panthers didn't go past prelim talks and now the Tigers are going cold on him. It could be a coincidence, but maybe not.

A fit , motivated Mitchell would be huge for us, but on the flip side he could also be a disaster.

The big question is how much of our salary cap do we want to gamble on him getting his head right?

 

[bradtalo]

I agree with his talent. I think potentially he has the ability to be considered as an immortal in 15 years.

Hope I am wrong but the constant referencing of his mental state is concerning. Couple that with the fact he has won GFs, been part of a SOO team that broke the Qld domination, played for Australia and makes more money that than all of us I am not sure what he has left to prove, in his head.

You just don't hear of other players his age talk about retirement.

Too many clubs are also backing out after talking to him. The Roosters are letting him go way too easily, we are backing out, the Panthers didn't go past prelim talks and now the Tigers are going cold on him. It could be a coincidence, but maybe not.

A fit , motivated Mitchell would be huge for us, but on the flip side he could also be a disaster.

The big question is how much of our salary cap do we want to gamble on him getting his head right?

The thing is we need a potential game-breaker weapon outside back ASAP (unless you put more faith in Holland/Harper/Okonbur) . If there was someone better than Mitchell then great but no-one better available anywhere. The fact that he can kick goals from 55m, kick field goals, get extra distance when kicking for the sideline and in general play for field position are all added bonuses. I would think it's worth making an offer of around 850K NOW rather than spending more than half of that on Montoya and Holland to play reserve grade.

 

[Scoooby]

We just can’t keep saying what if, or whom etc.. the board needs to get active an at least get another signing before kick off 2020, it’s not impossible. It can be done .!!!

 

[bradyk]

The thing is we need a potential game-breaker weapon outside back ASAP (unless you put more faith in Holland/Harper/Okonbur) . If there was someone better than Mitchell then great but no-one better available anywhere. The fact that he can kick goals from 55m, kick field goals, get extra distance when kicking for the sideline and in general play for field position are all added bonuses. I would think it's worth making an offer of around 850K NOW rather than spending more than half of that on Montoya and Holland to play reserve grade.

There is also a big difference between Latrell and the next best Centre we can buy which is possibly Lomax (on potential) or a Bird gamble.

 

[wendog33]

No defence of Mad Monday - utter shambles.
Pity the venue was leaked to the press but the carry-on shouldn’t have happened at all and Pay shouldn’t have been at the players end of season knees up.

Agree with ROI on Elliott - and even if he’s the club camaraderie man as some say - that’s not enough for a contract.

He is among a few I would not retain beyond 2020 and I’ll be disappointed if an extension is announced. So far, the ones extended for ‘21 I have no problem with.

I still believe there’s a plan we haven’t seen yet and leading up to kick-off 2020 I think we’ll learn more.

It's not club policy to comment or explain recruitment...we won't hear nothin.

 

[DinkumDog]

It's not club policy to comment or explain recruitment...we won't hear nothin.

I meant until they’re ready to announce.
But yep, until then - radio silence.

 

[JayBee]

Poll was 55 a piece - until I voted no.

I think he COULD be worth a million, but it is a big punt. The next key decision we make has to be on point. It cannot be half-assed, it cannot a knee-jerk reaction, and it has to be at the right price. For me, signing Latrell is a huge risk, and one I think we could go without. He can be lazy, phases in and out of games, and if I am honest - appears to be a mentally weak individual. When all that contract talk happened, his head space was clearly out of whack - and it showed on the pitch.

People may question that we need take a risk to get out of this rut that we have been stuck in since 2017 - but I would argue there are better ways to spend a million bucks, especially with the way the off season is shaping up.

 

[bradyk]

Poll was 55 a piece - until I voted no.

I think he COULD be worth a million, but it is a big punt. The next key decision we make has to be on point. It cannot be half-assed, it cannot a knee-jerk reaction, and it has to be at the right price. For me, signing Latrell is a huge risk, and one I think we could go without. He can be lazy, phases in and out of games, and if I am honest - appears to be a mentally weak individual. When all that contract talk happened, his head space was clearly out of whack - and it showed on the pitch.

People may question that we need take a risk to get out of this rut that we have been stuck in since 2017 - but I would argue there are better ways to spend a million bucks, especially with the way the off season is shaping up.

I think you're missing the point why we'd have to pay 900k-1m. If you agree Latrell if worth 700k the extra is just what you have to add to entice the player to come to us (due to the situation we're in, I'm not going to explain it, but I'd assume you don't need me too). I hear people saying they'd rather pay overs for spine players but who's off contract and available for 2021 that you would like to see us sign? If they're worth 700k we're going to have to pay 900k-1m. If they're worth 1m we'd have to pay at least 1.2-1.3m. When I look at Latrell as a player he's everything that we need. I get the negatives you're saying but the positives outweigh the negatives for me. Latrell was still the best Centre in the game with everything you said going on. I'd have trust in the coach, leadership group (we have a very good one) and club to make sure Latrell stays on path. We tried to recruit Leilua ffs.

 

[wendog33]

Hold on. I didn't vote.

 

[steeliz]

The thing is we need a potential game-breaker weapon outside back ASAP (unless you put more faith in Holland/Harper/Okonbur) . If there was someone better than Mitchell then great but no-one better available anywhere. The fact that he can kick goals from 55m, kick field goals, get extra distance when kicking for the sideline and in general play for field position are all added bonuses. I would think it's worth making an offer of around 850K NOW rather than spending more than half of that on Montoya and Holland to play reserve grade.

That is if he is on.

What if he decides he will take the money, finds he misses his mates at the Roosters and decides he won't put in because he doesn't like the place and decides we are his retirement fund (which he has talked about already).

What then? He screws our salary cap like the Foran deal has. For what 3 yrs? 5yrs?, god forbid 10yrs?

His mental ability to stay focused has been questioned from many different people AND organisations?

Plus he is already dictating where he wants to play. If the coach decides, for whatever reason, decides the team would benefit from him playing centre rather than FB, where he is dictating that he wants to play, does he clock off? Want out? Spit the dummy? Or does he swallow his pride for the team? He isn't swallowing his pride for the Roosters, why would he do that for us?

Is he worth the risk?????

At $1 000 000? I don't think so. He has already rejected $800K, $850 won't cut it. He wants $1 000 000 plus.

We need to be smart. Going after Mitchell at any price is just desperate and will screw us long term if it doesn't pay off.

 

[DinkumDog]

That is if he is on.

What if he decides he will take the money, finds he misses his mates at the Roosters and decides he won't put in because he doesn't like the place and decides we are his retirement fund (which he has talked about already).

What then? He screws our salary cap like the Foran deal has. For what 3 yrs? 5yrs?, god forbid 10yrs?

His mental ability to stay focused has been questioned from many different people AND organisations?

Plus he is already dictating where he wants to play. If the coach decides, for whatever reason, decides the team would benefit from him playing centre rather than FB, where he is dictating that he wants to play, does he clock off? Want out? Spit the dummy? Or does he swallow his pride for the team? He isn't swallowing his pride for the Roosters, why would he do that for us?

Is he worth the risk?????

At $1 000 000? I don't think so. He has already rejected $800K, $850 won't cut it. He wants $1 000 000 plus.

We need to be smart. Going after Mitchell at any price is just desperate and will screw us long term if it doesn't pay off.

Hallelujah Steeliz.

 

[Teddybear]

How many hypotheticals are in your post.

What if he wins us a grand final or two ?

What if he wins the leading tryscorer for 3 years running?

What is he becomes the leading point scorer for 3 years running?

What if he surpasses the hazem el masri club record?

What is he helps us secure a major sponsor?

What if he helps us secure more players?

What if he wins the daily M?

What if he wins the Clive Churchill?

What if he wins the golden boot?

What if he becomes an immortal of the game?

That is if he is on.

What if he decides he will take the money, finds he misses his mates at the Roosters and decides he won't put in because he doesn't like the place and decides we are his retirement fund (which he has talked about already).

What then? He screws our salary cap like the Foran deal has. For what 3 yrs? 5yrs?, god forbid 10yrs?

His mental ability to stay focused has been questioned from many different people AND organisations?

Plus he is already dictating where he wants to play. If the coach decides, for whatever reason, decides the team would benefit from him playing centre rather than FB, where he is dictating that he wants to play, does he clock off? Want out? Spit the dummy? Or does he swallow his pride for the team? He isn't swallowing his pride for the Roosters, why would he do that for us?

Is he worth the risk?????

At $1 000 000? I don't think so. He has already rejected $800K, $850 won't cut it. He wants $1 000 000 plus.

We need to be smart. Going after Mitchell at any price is just desperate and will screw us long term if it doesn't pay off.