Penalties Killing us

[OldDogFan]

We are getting a rough deal with refs no doubt. How about we train to pick up more penalties than to concede them.An example quicker ruck speed.

I think you'll find we are not that sluggish in the PTB compared to a lot of teams.

 

[Kelpie03]

Have a look at most games, we must be held back the fattest 10 metres ever (it's usually about 12). It's the subtle things that hurt us as a team but the refs think the fans are stupid and don't notice, and that's what hurts me most as a supporter.

I totally agree with you, what I like our club to do is film anumber of our games completely, then go throught each game and detail all the rullings made by the refeeres, particularily te 10 meters forward passes and other, and if the continued bias against us is clearly substianted, then take the matter to the NRL. Shoerley the NRL would at least listen to a club's officials making an approach.
But I guess it will never happen because our club is to afraid to offend SCUM Fox and Shit Ch9.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I thought it might be worth updating this;

Games we lost;
Manly - first penalty & against us 1.24 minutes
Souffs - first penalty & against us 0.44 seconds
Parramatta - first penalty & against us 4.24 minutes
Canbra - first penalty & against us 14.5 minutes

Games we won;
Melbourne - first penalty & against them 3.20 minutes
Tigers - first penalty & against them 3.26 minutes
Cowboys - first penalty & against them 10.28 minutes

How the fark we won the St George game is beyond me, the first penalty against us was after 22 seconds and the second penalty was again against us at 2.18 minutes.

Still, by far the best predictor at 70% (7 out of 10 games) of whether we win or lose is who gets the first penalty.


Always a Bulldog

 

[flamebouyant]

Most penalised team in the competition with 3 players in the top 5 and the worst defensive team in the comp

Direct correlation there

Discipline has been a massive problem for us for years. Its as if we still havnt adapted to the 6 again. Whats worse is the timing of the penalties. They always seem to give them away when we are struggling.

 

[1967]

I thought it might be worth updating this;

Games we lost;
Manly - first penalty & against us 1.24 minutes
Souffs - first penalty & against us 0.44 seconds
Parramatta - first penalty & against us 4.24 minutes
Canbra - first penalty & against us 14.5 minutes

Games we won;
Melbourne - first penalty & against them 3.20 minutes
Tigers - first penalty & against them 3.26 minutes
Cowboys - first penalty & against them 10.28 minutes

How the fark we won the St George game is beyond me, the first penalty against us was after 22 seconds and the second penalty was again against us at 2.18 minutes.

Still, by far the best predictor at 70% (7 out of 10 games) of whether we win or lose is who gets the first penalty.


Always a Bulldog

Lot of people would look at that & put it down to dodgy ref’s … I believe it’s because we’re not big enough or powerful enough.

I’ve bought this up before ..

Have a look at the size of the pack Manly, Souths, Sharks, Canberra & Parramatta have, they’re pretty much big all over the park.

Have a look at our blokes especially with our injury toll, Burns, Casey, Perham, Averillo, Brown, Hoffman, Sutton, Davey, Morrin, not big, not powerful .. I also believe size and weight is a problem for Flanagan at 7 to.

Id love to know what weight we give away to those teams.

A lot of our blokes just aren’t big enough or powerful enough to foot it against these bigger packs, they struggle to stop them and end up over compensating and give away penalties because of it, then they fatigue even more because of the defending they have to do of the back of all these penalties and the results and stats tell the story.

We beat Storm, Tigers, Cowboys, funny enough 3 teams that aren’t overly big all over the park .. NAS & Tomolalo were handfuls but we could get numbers on them because they were really the only big power threats.

You can get away with a few smaller blokes in your team, we have way to many .. putting it bluntly, we need some bigger more powerful Pele type islander boys in our team ..

And Thompson & Patolo aren’t going to fix it when they’re back because they aren’t overly big either ..

If they’re trying to turn us into a faster lighter pack like the Panthers that’s not our DNA, our club was built on powerful players, big powerful forwards, until we get bigger players all over the park we’re going to continue to get dominated and we’re going to continue to give away penalties because of it ..

 

[wendog33]

Lot of people would look at that & put it down to dodgy ref’s … I believe it’s because we’re not big enough or powerful enough.

I’ve bought this up before ..

Have a look at the size of the pack Manly, Souths, Sharks, Canberra & Parramatta have, they’re pretty much big all over the park.

Have a look at our blokes especially with our injury toll, Burns, Casey, Perham, Averillo, Brown, Hoffman, Sutton, Davey, Morrin, not big, not powerful .. I also believe size and weight is a problem for Flanagan at 7 to.

Id love to know what weight we give away to those teams.

A lot of our blokes just aren’t big enough or powerful enough to foot it against these bigger packs, they struggle to stop them and end up over compensating and give away penalties because of it, then they fatigue even more because of the defending they have to do of the back of all these penalties and the results and stats tell the story.

We beat Storm, Tigers, Cowboys, funny enough 3 teams that aren’t overly big all over the park .. NAS & Tomolalo were handfuls but we could get numbers on them because they were really the only big power threats.

You can get away with a few smaller blokes in your team, we have way to many .. putting it bluntly, we need some bigger more powerful Pele type islander boys in our team ..

And Thompson & Patolo aren’t going to fix it when they’re back because they aren’t overly big either ..

If they’re trying to turn us into a faster lighter pack like the Panthers that’s not our DNA, our club was built on powerful players, big powerful forwards, until we get bigger players all over the park we’re going to continue to get dominated and we’re going to continue to give away penalties because of it ..

Totally agree. Last year I equated it to our players looking like they were trying to bring down a pack of Gulliver's every run. People said our fitness but it wasn't that so much as we had no big bodies punching holes and we used up too much energy in D.

 

[Yougra]

Lot of people would look at that & put it down to dodgy ref’s … I believe it’s because we’re not big enough or powerful enough.

I’ve bought this up before ..

Have a look at the size of the pack Manly, Souths, Sharks, Canberra & Parramatta have, they’re pretty much big all over the park.

Have a look at our blokes especially with our injury toll, Burns, Casey, Perham, Averillo, Brown, Hoffman, Sutton, Davey, Morrin, not big, not powerful .. I also believe size and weight is a problem for Flanagan at 7 to.

Id love to know what weight we give away to those teams.

A lot of our blokes just aren’t big enough or powerful enough to foot it against these bigger packs, they struggle to stop them and end up over compensating and give away penalties because of it, then they fatigue even more because of the defending they have to do of the back of all these penalties and the results and stats tell the story.

We beat Storm, Tigers, Cowboys, funny enough 3 teams that aren’t overly big all over the park .. NAS & Tomolalo were handfuls but we could get numbers on them because they were really the only big power threats.

You can get away with a few smaller blokes in your team, we have way to many .. putting it bluntly, we need some bigger more powerful Pele type islander boys in our team ..

And Thompson & Patolo aren’t going to fix it when they’re back because they aren’t overly big either ..

If they’re trying to turn us into a faster lighter pack like the Panthers that’s not our DNA, our club was built on powerful players, big powerful forwards, until we get bigger players all over the park we’re going to continue to get dominated and we’re going to continue to give away penalties because of it ..

Exactly, you are 100% spot on.

I think our lack of size in our middles is our number 1 problem at the moment

It doesn't matter if we had Cleary at 7 and Tedesco at 1, if our middles continue to get dominated and we are always playing off the back foot, even those guys would be ineffective

I don't think TPJ or Thompson change that at all

We need bigger bodies up front, especially to start the game other wise we will continually be outmuscled and all our other problems and shortcomings are amplified because of that

Look at these starting props and we don't even come close to matching in size, grunt or aggression

JFH and Leota
JWH and Collins
Papalii and Topine
RCG and Paulo
Uele and Rudolph
Hass and Flegler
Tino and Matuaka
Nelson and Welch
Tatolo and Burgess
Safiti bros

And then they usually have another just as big and aggresive prop coming off the bench eg. Lenu, Lodge, Guler, Hunt, Kamakamika etc etc

And the other teams at least have 1 big unit up front, Bromwich, McLean, Klemmer etc

We desperately need 2 big starting props PLUS we need another couple in NSW Cup

For us I think Hughes has the size and potential but is only 3 games into his NRL career

Tsikrikas and Tanner don't fit the mould

Pele definitely could be our Lenu style coming off the bench. Don't know if has the capacity (at this stage) to be a starting prop

Max King is a great 3rd prop in the rotation to come on after 20 mins and play the next 60 mins but he isn't the alpha prop we need at the start of games to set the tone

I've nearly given up hope of exactly what role if any TPJ can play for us if any...I would cash in my chips on him and look elsewhere

And there lies the problem...who is available

I know I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel but I would take Lodge if he is available.

I was hoping Royce Hunt, but he just re-signed with the Sharks

Sele from Souths I think is off contract...other than that??

I just pray that Gus has a plan and is able to work some magic to get us a couple of big middles in for next year otherwise I think we are going to have the same problems

 

[Bluebody]

Let's be clear about the impact of penalties - let's say average 30 m from the kick + 50m gain from the set - it is almost a length of the field advantage! It kills momentum and dramatically increases the chances of points against you. When we lose the penalty count by 5 in a game. we are talking 400m net advantage, That means they are in our attacking zone about 4 - 5 times more - minimum 6 points - up to 18 points advantage.

Giving teams an average 12 points head start with a bias ref. I do not care if they are not intentionally bias - they are! Just look at how consistent they are in 50/50 calls.

We cannot afford this handicap and its happening consistently

 

[TwinTurbo]

Lot of people would look at that & put it down to dodgy ref’s … I believe it’s because we’re not big enough or powerful enough.

I’ve bought this up before ..

Have a look at the size of the pack Manly, Souths, Sharks, Canberra & Parramatta have, they’re pretty much big all over the park.

Have a look at our blokes especially with our injury toll, Burns, Casey, Perham, Averillo, Brown, Hoffman, Sutton, Davey, Morrin, not big, not powerful .. I also believe size and weight is a problem for Flanagan at 7 to.

Id love to know what weight we give away to those teams.

A lot of our blokes just aren’t big enough or powerful enough to foot it against these bigger packs, they struggle to stop them and end up over compensating and give away penalties because of it, then they fatigue even more because of the defending they have to do of the back of all these penalties and the results and stats tell the story.

We beat Storm, Tigers, Cowboys, funny enough 3 teams that aren’t overly big all over the park .. NAS & Tomolalo were handfuls but we could get numbers on them because they were really the only big power threats.

Exactly, you are 100% spot on.

I think our lack of size in our middles is our number 1 problem at the moment

It doesn't matter if we had Cleary at 7 and Tedesco at 1, if our middles continue to get dominated and we are always playing off the back foot, even those guys would be ineffective

I don't think TPJ or Thompson change that at all

We need bigger bodies up front, especially to start the game other wise we will continually be outmuscled and all our other problems and shortcomings are amplified because of that

Look at these starting props and we don't even come close to matching in size, grunt or aggression

JFH and Leota
JWH and Collins
Papalii and Topine
RCG and Paulo
Uele and Rudolph
Hass and Flegler
Tino and Matuaka
Nelson and Welch
Tatolo and Burgess
Safiti bros

And then they usually have another just as big and aggresive prop coming off the bench eg. Lenu, Lodge, Guler, Hunt, Kamakamika etc etc

And the other teams at least have 1 big unit up front, Bromwich, McLean, Klemmer etc

We desperately need 2 big starting props PLUS we need another couple in NSW Cup

For us I think Hughes has the size and potential but is only 3 games into his NRL career

Tsikrikas and Tanner don't fit the mould

Pele definitely could be our Lenu style coming off the bench. Don't know if has the capacity (at this stage) to be a starting prop

Max King is a great 3rd prop in the rotation to come on after 20 mins and play the next 60 mins but he isn't the alpha prop we need at the start of games to set the tone

I've nearly given up hope of exactly what role if any TPJ can play for us if any...I would cash in my chips on him and look elsewhere

And there lies the problem...who is available

I know I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel but I would take Lodge if he is available.

I was hoping Royce Hunt, but he just re-signed with the Sharks

Sele from Souths I think is off contract...other than that??

I just pray that Gus has a plan and is able to work some magic to get us a couple of big middles in for next year otherwise I think we are going to have the same problems

You can get away with a few smaller blokes in your team, we have way to many .. putting it bluntly, we need some bigger more powerful Pele type islander boys in our team ..

And Thompson & Patolo aren’t going to fix it when they’re back because they aren’t overly big either ..

If they’re trying to turn us into a faster lighter pack like the Panthers that’s not our DNA, our club was built on powerful players, big powerful forwards, until we get bigger players all over the park we’re going to continue to get dominated and we’re going to continue to give away penalties because of it ..

How about some data on players published weights and heights;
Hughes at 1.93/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Fa'asuamaleaui 1.97/107
RFM at 1.90/110 is almost exactly the same weight and height as Guler 1.91/112
Pele at 1.90/132 (lighter now but still over 120) is actually heavier and almost as tall as RCG 1.93/115
Patolo at 1.85/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Horsburgh 1.88/109
Kikau at 1.95/116 is actually heavier and almost as tall as NAS 2.00/115
TPJ at 1.90/117 is the same weight and almost as tall as Haas 1.94/117

The problem is the 6 Bulldogs players above have never all played at the same time this year.

History tells us it's not the size of the Bulldog in the fight, it's the amount of fight in the Bulldog (Exhibit A - Steve Folkes)


Always a Bulldog

 

[wendog33]

How about some data on players published weights and heights;
Hughes at 1.93/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Fa'asuamaleaui 1.97/107
RFM at 1.90/110 is almost exactly the same weight and height as Guler 1.91/112
Pele at 1.90/132 (lighter now but still over 120) is actually heavier and almost as tall as RCG 1.93/115
Patolo at 1.85/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Horsburgh 1.88/109
Kikau at 1.95/116 is actually heavier and almost as tall as NAS 2.00/115
TPJ at 1.90/117 is the same weight and almost as tall as Haas 1.94/117

The problem is the 6 Bulldogs players above have never all played at the same time this year.

History tells us it's not the size of the Bulldog in the fight, it's the amount of fight in the Bulldog (Exhibit A - Steve Folkes)


Always a Bulldog

It's about....
We have heart but we lack....

Robust: having or showing vigor, strength, power or firmness.

 

[Doggy71]

Lot of people would look at that & put it down to dodgy ref’s … I believe it’s because we’re not big enough or powerful enough.

I’ve bought this up before ..

Have a look at the size of the pack Manly, Souths, Sharks, Canberra & Parramatta have, they’re pretty much big all over the park.

Have a look at our blokes especially with our injury toll, Burns, Casey, Perham, Averillo, Brown, Hoffman, Sutton, Davey, Morrin, not big, not powerful .. I also believe size and weight is a problem for Flanagan at 7 to.

Id love to know what weight we give away to those teams.

A lot of our blokes just aren’t big enough or powerful enough to foot it against these bigger packs, they struggle to stop them and end up over compensating and give away penalties because of it, then they fatigue even more because of the defending they have to do of the back of all these penalties and the results and stats tell the story.

We beat Storm, Tigers, Cowboys, funny enough 3 teams that aren’t overly big all over the park .. NAS & Tomolalo were handfuls but we could get numbers on them because they were really the only big power threats.

You can get away with a few smaller blokes in your team, we have way to many .. putting it bluntly, we need some bigger more powerful Pele type islander boys in our team ..

And Thompson & Patolo aren’t going to fix it when they’re back because they aren’t overly big either ..

If they’re trying to turn us into a faster lighter pack like the Panthers that’s not our DNA, our club was built on powerful players, big powerful forwards, until we get bigger players all over the park we’re going to continue to get dominated and we’re going to continue to give away penalties because of it ..

Couldn't agree mote mate,look at the competition over the last40 years or so,all the teams with a big strong forward pack either win it or are top 4. We went the wrong way a few years back after Des ball by getting rid of our larger forwards for a smaller and supposedly more mobile pack as the game became faster,trouble is all the big fellas just got stronger and faster and we are playing catchup all the time because we are on the back foot way too often.We need some big boppers that can bend the line,and unfortunately not much will change until that happens.

 

[KiwiDog7]

I thought it might be worth updating this;

Games we lost;
Manly - first penalty & against us 1.24 minutes
Souffs - first penalty & against us 0.44 seconds
Parramatta - first penalty & against us 4.24 minutes
Canbra - first penalty & against us 14.5 minutes

Games we won;
Melbourne - first penalty & against them 3.20 minutes
Tigers - first penalty & against them 3.26 minutes
Cowboys - first penalty & against them 10.28 minutes

How the fark we won the St George game is beyond me, the first penalty against us was after 22 seconds and the second penalty was again against us at 2.18 minutes.

Still, by far the best predictor at 70% (7 out of 10 games) of whether we win or lose is who gets the first penalty.


Always a Bulldog

I’ll remember this for live betting

Though from memory the game we played v Wahs we got penalty in our opening set and still lost (albeit bs obstruction try )

 

[1967]

How about some data on players published weights and heights;
Hughes at 1.93/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Fa'asuamaleaui 1.97/107
RFM at 1.90/110 is almost exactly the same weight and height as Guler 1.91/112
Pele at 1.90/132 (lighter now but still over 120) is actually heavier and almost as tall as RCG 1.93/115
Patolo at 1.85/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Horsburgh 1.88/109
Kikau at 1.95/116 is actually heavier and almost as tall as NAS 2.00/115
TPJ at 1.90/117 is the same weight and almost as tall as Haas 1.94/117

The problem is the 6 Bulldogs players above have never all played at the same time this year.

History tells us it's not the size of the Bulldog in the fight, it's the amount of fight in the Bulldog (Exhibit A - Steve Folkes)


Always a Bulldog

No one said we don’t have any big body’s in our squad, we do, but I don’t get what you’re trying to say by comparing some of our young new to 1st grade blokes, to some of the best 1st grade and representative seasoned players in the league.

Tino Fa'asuamaleaui, Australian & Origin representative player, played 80 1st grade games …
Hughes has played 3 1st grade games he does show promise but should only be coming off the bench in short stints as he matures into a 1st grade prop.

RCG is 115kg he’s 29 he’s an Australian & Origin representative prop who’s played 191 games ….
Pele is 120kg he’s 22 and played 5 games yes he’s another one that shows promise, again, short stints off the bench while he matures into a 1st grade prop.

RFM plays his part but he’s no game changer, bench player at best, I don’t believe he should have been re-signed, lacks aggression.

We don’t know what Patolo can do we haven’t seen enough of him.

Kikau’s obviously quality.

TPJ 1/2 the player Haas is and plays 1/2 the minutes .. we can buy players and get 3 times the grunt and minutes he provides for his money.

Thompsons another one that’s never on the park, we can buy 2 players to provide twice the grunt and minutes for his money.

We lack experienced seasoned tough powerful run straight and hard line bending 1st grade props that scare the opposition.

Right now our biggest problem is our centres, they’re not tough enough or powerful enough to do the job we need them to do, not only do they have defensive issues but they also don’t break tackles at the rate most other centres do.

Alamoti is 19, .. 2023 10 games, 1 try, 16 tackle breaks, 80.02 tackle efficiency, 130 average run metres.

His last weeks Canberra centre counter part, Matthew Timoko, is 23, played 46 1st grade games, 2023 9 games, 3 try’s, 41 tackle breaks, 93.1 tackle efficiency .. 162 Av run metres ..

The difference there in tackle breaks & tackle efficiency and run metres tells me Alamoti needs 2 more years of cup footy to mature in toughness and power, work on his game, come back if he puts in the hard work when he’s 21, if he’s not willing to wait we move on.

Averillo is doing a good job at centre he’s lucky he has more 1st grade experience and most of all speed, but his good work is being undone with his 82.6 tackle efficiency, that needs to be well up over 90% … he’s only 22, with his speed and hands I believe he should be our 6 .. and train Oloapu to be a ball playing lock and come of the bench gradually as he matures into that role.

We need more power in our team, players that get us rolling down the field chewing up metres, 3 powerful props would be great & 2 tough powerful tackle busting centres with mongrel .. also I’m not sure Xerri suits that mold anymore either ..

 

[billy beane]

How about some data on players published weights and heights;
Hughes at 1.93/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Fa'asuamaleaui 1.97/107
RFM at 1.90/110 is almost exactly the same weight and height as Guler 1.91/112
Pele at 1.90/132 (lighter now but still over 120) is actually heavier and almost as tall as RCG 1.93/115
Patolo at 1.85/110 is actually heavier and almost as tall as Horsburgh 1.88/109
Kikau at 1.95/116 is actually heavier and almost as tall as NAS 2.00/115
TPJ at 1.90/117 is the same weight and almost as tall as Haas 1.94/117

The problem is the 6 Bulldogs players above have never all played at the same time this year.

History tells us it's not the size of the Bulldog in the fight, it's the amount of fight in the Bulldog (Exhibit A - Steve Folkes)


Always a Bulldog

Steve Folks wouldn't hack it as an edge backrower in this era .... maybe as a lock.

The game has changed massively.

 

[billy beane]

No one said we don’t have any big body’s in our squad, we do, but I don’t get what you’re trying to say by comparing some of our young new to 1st grade blokes, to some of the best 1st grade and representative seasoned players in the league.

Tino Fa'asuamaleaui, Australian & Origin representative player, played 80 1st grade games …
Hughes has played 3 1st grade games he does show promise but should only be coming off the bench in short stints as he matures into a 1st grade prop.

RCG is 115kg he’s 29 he’s an Australian & Origin representative prop who’s played 191 games ….
Pele is 120kg he’s 22 and played 5 games yes he’s another one that shows promise, again, short stints off the bench while he matures into a 1st grade prop.

RFM plays his part but he’s no game changer, bench player at best, I don’t believe he should have been re-signed, lacks aggression.

We don’t know what Patolo can do we haven’t seen enough of him.

Kikau’s obviously quality.

TPJ 1/2 the player Haas is and plays 1/2 the minutes .. we can buy players and get 3 times the grunt and minutes he provides for his money.

Thompsons another one that’s never on the park, we can buy 2 players to provide twice the grunt and minutes for his money.

We lack experienced seasoned tough powerful run straight and hard line bending 1st grade props that scare the opposition.

Right now our biggest problem is our centres, they’re not tough enough or powerful enough to do the job we need them to do, not only do they have defensive issues but they also don’t break tackles at the rate most other centres do.

Alamoti is 19, .. 2023 10 games, 1 try, 16 tackle breaks, 80.02 tackle efficiency, 130 average run metres.

His last weeks Canberra centre counter part, Matthew Timoko, is 23, played 46 1st grade games, 2023 9 games, 3 try’s, 41 tackle breaks, 93.1 tackle efficiency .. 162 Av run metres ..

The difference there in tackle breaks & tackle efficiency and run metres tells me Alamoti needs 2 more years of cup footy to mature in toughness and power, work on his game, come back if he puts in the hard work when he’s 21, if he’s not willing to wait we move on.

Averillo is doing a good job at centre he’s lucky he has more 1st grade experience and most of all speed, but his good work is being undone with his 82.6 tackle efficiency, that needs to be well up over 90% … he’s only 22, with his speed and hands I believe he should be our 6 .. and train Oloapu to be a ball playing lock and come of the bench gradually as he matures into that role.

We need more power in our team, players that get us rolling down the field chewing up metres, 3 powerful props would be great & 2 tough powerful tackle busting centres with mongrel .. also I’m not sure Xerri suits that mold anymore either ..

Nice post ... hard to argue with any of it.

 

[Hound Dog]

I’ll remember this for live betting

Though from memory the game we played v Wahs we got penalty in our opening set and still lost (albeit bs obstruction try )

Hopefully punters get on to this, Gamblor realises the hole and puts pressure on the NRL to penalise less the Bulldogs

 

[speedy2460]

The penalties conceded are a real problem. And it simply gets down to a lack of discipline. The players need to lift their game.
Its a professional game and the players need to respect that.
Theres only so much a coach can do.

 

[GoTheDoggies]

The refs have too much influence on the game and it started with the 6 again bs, refs can put you under extreme fatigue situations.

Mahoney & Burton need to become the ref whisperers, they need to watch tapes of Cameron Smith on how he smooth talked referees.

 

[TwinTurbo]

No one said we don’t have any big body’s in our squad,

Lot of people would look at that & put it down to dodgy ref’s … I believe it’s because we’re not big enough or powerful enough.

I’ve bought this up before ..

Have a look at the size of the pack Manly, Souths, Sharks, Canberra & Parramatta have, they’re pretty much big all over the park.

Yes you did, you said exactly that, twice.


Always a Bulldog

 

[dogsballs]

We get penalised by breathing on the opposition so no surprise there. Unconscious bias or down right rorting either way we have to battle the ref as well as the other team every week.