Open Question: Pay’s Favouritism versus Recruitment

[Alan79]

The club has taken a dramatic new direction with recruitment and promotion. If Hasler was coaching this year Eastwood would still have been in the side because he's been pretty reliable and showed moments of brilliance throughout his career. We'd look to fill the vacant spots in our squad by recruiting middle aged players that have covered for injury for years while talented youngsters moved ahead of them. We've wound up in a situation where we are having to show faith in juniors because it makes sense financially. If there is one positive to this situation in my opinion, it's that we're now looking to mould a young team rather than buying also rans.

With Pay we've already seen some of our untested players promoted after a few years in the lower grades. By all reports of our salary cap situation the players we are bringing in are joining for the chance to fill vacant positions with the Morris twins and Mbye leaving. The money isn't the big drawcard it's the chance to step into the NRL. Hopefully some of the incoming talent adds hunger and potentially improves our support play. Some won't work out, some will. In a year or two, hopefully our junior production line can be firing to supplement the need to recruit outside the club. But at that point we'll have more leeway to make some selective signings too. When we have options pushing for NRL spots we can judge whether Pay is making the right choices. The club will come through this better off as long as they devote more focus on bringing juniors through. It's not necessarily the quickest route to success, but getting into the thought processes that allow us to work with a sustainable salary cap is a good thing, and the club has taken steps to do that by finding some youngsters with potential.

 

[Hot Dog]

Agree big time pay has proven this with clay priest and others,pay is a real worry at this stage just not sure if he has the coaching iq needed

Priest for Abbey was not a move that Pay initiated. It was a move we had to make to be cap compliant for this season. I'm surprised some people still cant see that.

 

[Hot Dog]

Lewis can't get a run because players of the Lichaa ilk are taking up spots.

Michael would not get a run with any other team based on his form over 4 years with us...always been up to him and he has been very disappointing except for his defence and another like Mbye who cruise around on the field if they can get away with it I'm afraid. Unfortunately the 3 good games were 3 offs and haven't been repeated...if the club tell him they aren't taking up his option, then you might see some dh running and improved effort.

You and @Vlasnik need to have a talk. Apparently we signed Lichaa on top dollar because Parra and St Merge wanted him.

 

[doggieaaron]

Priest for Abbey was not a move that Pay initiated. It was a move we had to make to be cap compliant for this season. I'm surprised some people still cant see that.

Im not talking about being part of the squad but being rushed into first grade before renouf t was pays call and i cant believe you cant see that was a dud call champ

 

[Hot Dog]

Im not talking about being part of the squad but being rushed into first grade before renouf t was pays call and i cant believe you cant see that was a dud call champ

Mate I'm not arguing that Priest is a good player. I personally think he is too small to play front row. But put yourself in Pay's shoes for a minute. Do you play a rookie with no nrl experience, or a player you've coached for a few years with first grade experience when the chips are down?

Remember you are in a results based business and your job is on the line.

 

[wendog33]

You and @Vlasnik need to have a talk. Apparently we signed Lichaa on top dollar because Parra and St Merge wanted him.

Should have evaluated him for a contract renewal purely based on his 3 years with us ...not those 3 out of character games.

 

[doggieaaron]

Mate I'm not arguing that Priest is a good player. I personally think he is too small to play front row. But put yourself in Pay's shoes for a minute. Do you play a rookie with no nrl experience, or a player you've coached for a few years with first grade experience when the chips are down?

Remember you are in a results based business and your job is on the line.

A rookie with 3 man of the match performances in isp or a fringe first grader that has played 30 mins all year ,i think its an easy decision and proves pay picks favourites which is what this was about

 

[belmore_utd]

Mate I'm not arguing that Priest is a good player. I personally think he is too small to play front row. But put yourself in Pay's shoes for a minute. Do you play a rookie with no nrl experience, or a player you've coached for a few years with first grade experience when the chips are down?

Remember you are in a results based business and your job is on the line.

Yup I play the rookie over the late bloomer who at 29, with only 30-something games under his belt appears to have hit his ceiling. The guy is severely undersized for a prop/lock which leads to bouts of small man syndrome. We dont need to add to our on-field brain fart tally. Elliot already has that quota covered for each game.

On the other hand To'omaga's potential is unquantified and he had a pre season over Priest, played in every game, was the form forward in ISP. Not only making his metres and tackles Renouf was literally stamping his mark on games with 3 try doubles and also providing half the quick play the balls for Browns barge over tries.

Pay would do well to remember that Des Hasler refused to pick players with a vision to the future and instead went with experience because his focus was short term results.

Was actually disgusted by the Priest selection at the time and I still think he is only holding back players with more potential.

Fualalo should take his spot when he comes back but in the mean time Ogden, Eastwood, Tualau and ofcourse To'omaga should all be streets ahead of Priest especially given his lack of pre season and injury.

 

[Hot Dog]

Yup I play the rookie over the late bloomer who at 29, with only 30-something games under his belt appears to have hit his ceiling. The guy is severely undersized for a prop/lock which leads to bouts of small man syndrome. We dont need to add to our on-field brain fart tally. Elliot already has that quota covered for each game.

On the other hand To'omaga's potential is unquantified and he had a pre season over Priest, played in every game, was the form forward in ISP. Not only making his metres and tackles Renouf was literally stamping his mark on games with 3 try doubles and also providing half the quick play the balls for Browns barge over tries.

Pay would do well to remember that Des Hasler refused to pick players with a vision to the future and instead went with experience because his focus was short term results.

Was actually disgusted by the Priest selection at the time and I still think he is only holding back players with more potential.

Fualalo should take his spot when he comes back but in the mean time Ogden, Eastwood, Tualau and ofcourse To'omaga should all be streets ahead of Priest especially given his lack of pre season and injury.

Mate I'm not disagreeing. Like I said I don't think Priest is a front rower. I'm just making a point as to why Pay would pick Priest over To'omaga.

 

[belmore_utd]

Mate I'm not disagreeing. Like I said I don't think Priest is a front rower. I'm just making a point as to why Pay would pick Priest over To'omaga.

I went on a bit there but I cant justify Pay playing Priest.

I cant imagine any coach would pick anything but the best available players in their eyes.

In essence I am questioning his judgement.

I agree that Priest is not a front rower, I would like to add second rower, or lock. He is however a hearty player and could provide some good experience, leadership and attitude to our forwards coming through. I just dont think he has the size, talent, potential or brains to give our 1st grade team good value.

He is in the Brad Morrin mould from my opinion

 

[GA45]

The amount of bagging Pay gets on here for player selection is pathetic. He didn’t assemble this crap of 30 he had a hand in 1 or 2 players being here. Priest and Lichea that’s about it. He’s blooded youngsters would blood more but his hands are tied by the NRL. He’s signing minimum wage youngsters and you clowns want him to work miracles with Des’s crap. I don’t agree with everything he is doing especially on game day but he’s doing a lot of positive things that will set us up down the line. I’m prepared to give him a few seasons before I get critical because this situation he’s been put into would be crap for anyone to deal with.

 

[kaluah8123]

Does anyone else believe that Pay is painfully picking players due to favouritism over talent?

In seeing what Cogger and Meaney offer, I don’t have much confidence in Pay’s ability in spotting talent going forward. I do like that we have recruited Christian Crichton as I see him as a solid dogs player for years to come and I was impressed with John Olive’s debut last week. Although, I can’t shake the feeling that Pay is choosing his favourites and not picking necessarily the best talent available. Does anyone else feel the same?

I know that we have cap problems but surely there must be better options open to us.

Not to shoot you down but I am sure he has watched these younger players more then you have( it’s his job or our recruitment teams iob). Not saying they will be stars but if young and capable of first grade they at least add to our depth.

We all know about our cap constraints so young players with potential talent on minimum wages is all we can bring to the club.

From your assessment of the players mentioned I totally agree with you on all accounts, but I haven’t seen much of them either.

 

[kaluah8123]

True but let's not forget that Lichaa went through that same system.....and before you point out that Lichaa is a Des signing, the club wanted to offer Micheal a one year contract but Pay intervened at the time offering double that. Was Lichaa's retention the best move for the club moving forward????

The question I would ask which nobody may know is what were the other options at the time?

 

[Vlasnik]

The question I would ask which nobody may know is what were the other options at the time?

Well I'm sure there were options available otherwise the club would not of thanked him for his services and fair welled him with the other departing players. Besides we had Nu Brown already signed at the time who is in my opinion a better choice and a more accomplished player. When you factor in that Nu Brown is also a goal kicker.

 

[flamebouyant]

The club has taken a dramatic new direction with recruitment and promotion. If Hasler was coaching this year Eastwood would still have been in the side because he's been pretty reliable and showed moments of brilliance throughout his career. We'd look to fill the vacant spots in our squad by recruiting middle aged players that have covered for injury for years while talented youngsters moved ahead of them. We've wound up in a situation where we are having to show faith in juniors because it makes sense financially. If there is one positive to this situation in my opinion, it's that we're now looking to mould a young team rather than buying also rans.

With Pay we've already seen some of our untested players promoted after a few years in the lower grades. By all reports of our salary cap situation the players we are bringing in are joining for the chance to fill vacant positions with the Morris twins and Mbye leaving. The money isn't the big drawcard it's the chance to step into the NRL. Hopefully some of the incoming talent adds hunger and potentially improves our support play. Some won't work out, some will. In a year or two, hopefully our junior production line can be firing to supplement the need to recruit outside the club. But at that point we'll have more leeway to make some selective signings too. When we have options pushing for NRL spots we can judge whether Pay is making the right choices. The club will come through this better off as long as they devote more focus on bringing juniors through. It's not necessarily the quickest route to success, but getting into the thought processes that allow us to work with a sustainable salary cap is a good thing, and the club has taken steps to do that by finding some youngsters with potential.

Totally agree. And a lot of people are comparing our rebuild to Newcastle, but in fact i think we are actually in a much better position player wise then they were at the beginning of their rebuild.
We will get there, and this is how we should do it.

 

[Vlasnik]

A rookie with 3 man of the match performances in isp or a fringe first grader that has played 30 mins all year ,i think its an easy decision and proves pay picks favourites which is what this was about

Congrats mate this was never a thread about recruiting young talented players with potential, we know we must head down that road and I agree with the direction the club has taken and I know that dogsdayout agrees with it too. It was about Pay hand picking his personal favorites even if his personal favorites weren't the best possible talent that we could get for our dollar.

 

[Hot Dog]

Congrats mate this was never a thread about recruiting young talented players with potential, we know we must head down that road and I agree with the direction the club has taken and I know that dogsdayout agrees with it too. It was about Pay hand picking his personal favorites even if his personal favorites weren't the best possible talent that we could get for our dollar.

We have no dollars. Priest for Abbey was not Pays choice. It was pushed on him so we could get under the cap. What other hooker would you get for minimum wage? Plus why shouldn't Lichaa have been given another year with a coach who he worked under? And with regard to Nu Brown, Apparently it's an attitude thing holding him back.

 

[Vlasnik]

We have no dollars. Priest for Abbey was not Pays choice. It was pushed on him so we could get under the cap. What other hooker would you get for minimum wage? Plus why shouldn't Lichaa have been given another year with a coach who he worked under? And with regard to Nu Brown, Apparently it's an attitude thing holding him back.

1. If Priest was as you say pushed on Pay then Pay does not have to play him in FG that's what the reggies are for and
2. I can name you a whole Bulldogs Premiership winning side that was choker block full of egotistical attitudes that won the Premiership back in 2004. The only thing holding Nu Brown back is Pay!!! Strange he would play Priest a player that you say was pushed on him that had hardly any pre season preparation, yet Nu Brown who has been killing it in the ISP can't get a go.

But now of cause with Nu Brown out through injury Pay can play patty cake with Preist and Lichaa till his hearts content

 

[hayes]

Brown w

The question I would ask which nobody may know is what were the other options at the time?

I'll be playing rugby next year almost left before he started at the dogs.

 

[Hot Dog]

1. If Priest was as you say pushed on Pay then Pay does not have to play him in FG that's what the reggies are for and
2. I can name you a whole Bulldogs Premiership winning side that was choker block full of egotistical attitudes that won the Premiership back in 2004. The only thing holding Nu Brown back is Pay!!! Strange he would play Priest a player that you say was pushed on him that had hardly any pre season preparation, yet Nu Brown who has been killing it in the ISP can't get a go.

But now of cause with Nu Brown out through injury Pay can play patty cake with Preist and Lichaa till his hearts content

I'm not supporting his decisions, I'm just making a case for them. Better the devil you know as they say.