Rumour Oil/Inside Information/Prediction - Consolidated Thread

[bulldogsmyte]

I mentioned it in another post. It’s fk’n criminal how Turvey is never even in the immortal conversation. Sterling was a fantastic player, great player, but his media presence keeps him relevant.
all these names thrown up, Fitler, Sterling, Cronk, Lockyer, Langer etc... Turvey was better than ALL of them!
Maybe, maybe Thurston is up there. Kenny definitely. Slater although he shit me should be discussed. Smith a no brainer.
And whenever they do mention Fitler but not Daley, that’s another case of favours for the favourites. Daley a much better player AND achieved more than Fitler.

re: Turvey
Absolutely. I didn't follow the Dogs until I saw Turvey run rings around the opposition around 77. It was obvious to me that he was the best player in the comp by a long margin and I became an instant Doggies fan because of him. The stats don't lie. He played 13 years, 6 GF and won 4. Dogs have been in the comp for 85 years, won 8 comps and half of those were in Turvey's years. Incredible.
How does that stack up against "GOAT" Johns and Thurston? Johns won 1.5 comps in a Newcastle side often stacked with around 10+ Origin/Test players. Thurston won 2 comps (the first as a part time bench player/reserve grader) in a Cowboys side stacked with tons of rep players. "King" Wally Lewis was a failure in the ARL, he couldn't even get his Origin Broncos side into a GF let alone win one. Turvey craps all over Johns, Thurston and Lewis every day of the week. From a statistics perspective the only halves that can approach Turvey is Langer and Sterlo but when you see all of them play it's clear who is the better overall player.
Slater is good but he heavily relies on broken play/staggered defence or Cronk's inside pass to break the line. Turvey can do it on his own from dummy half/scrum against a set defence. He's the true immortal.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Cronk won 4 premierships too..

Yes but he won those GF playing in two contracts Melbourne and Uncle Nick's brown paper bags Chooks. A great player indeed but not in Turvey's league.

 

[COVENS]

Yes but he won those GF playing in two contracts Melbourne and Uncle Nick's brown paper bags Chooks. A great player indeed but not in Turvey's league.

Do you consider any of those asterisks premierships?

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Do you consider any of those asterisks premierships?

No because they were proven to be cheating the cap by orders of magnitude prior to 2012. 2012 onwards? Melbourne got away with it for years before they were stripped of their 07/09 GF so who knows what the future holds for their 2012/17 GF. As for the Chooks we all know about Uncle Nick, the golf bets and brown bags....

 

[Turvey Chip and Chase]

Cronk won 4 premierships too..

No way!
At Melb this manufactured half played outside the greatest hooker we’ll ever see and inside possibly the greatest fullback we’ll ever see.
At Chooks he had a team chocked full of internationals.
He was NEVER the best player in their team.
NOT ... IN ... TURVEY’S ... LEAGUE

 

[bradyk]

C. Smith's the GOAT but Cronk is in the calibre underneath him with Slater, the big 3. All 3 should be future immortals. Cronk's the best game manager/general (a genuine 7) I think the games ever had.

 

[COVENS]

C. Smith's the GOAT but Cronk is in the calibre underneath him with Slater, the big 3. All 3 should be future immortals. Cronk's the best game manager/general (a genuine 7) I think the games ever had.

Couldn't agree more. He doesn't get enough praise in my opinion. Others were more talented (Johns, Thurston) but if I'm picking a career halfback - there is no better.

 

[COVENS]

No way!
At Melb this manufactured half played outside the greatest hooker we’ll ever see and inside possibly the greatest fullback we’ll ever see.
At Chooks he had a team chocked full of internationals.
He was NEVER the best player in their team.
NOT ... IN ... TURVEY’S ... LEAGUE

And then left the greatest hooker and the greatest fullback and beat them..

In my opinion, "manufactured" or not (which is irrelevant) - he's the best pure halfback ever.

 

[Turvey Chip and Chase]

And then left the greatest hooker and the greatest fullback and beat them..

In my opinion, "manufactured" or not (which is irrelevant) - he's the best pure halfback ever.

Fair enough, your opinion.
Ps he didn’t beat them. Keary and Tedesco did. He also went to a team with internationals everywhere.
Your opinion though.
For the record, I don’t think he’s shit, just overrated and not as good as our own.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Couldn't agree more. He doesn't get enough praise in my opinion. Others were more talented (Johns, Thurston) but if I'm picking a career halfback - there is no better.

Exactly. Cronk professionalism and control makes everyone around him a better player aswell

 

[Turvey Chip and Chase]

C. Smith's the GOAT but Cronk is in the calibre underneath him with Slater, the big 3. All 3 should be future immortals. Cronk's the best game manager/general (a genuine 7) I think the games ever had.

I rate Sterling Johns and Stuart as better game managers / generals.
Mortimer Thurston and Langer had more natural talent

 

[Turvey Chip and Chase]

Exactly. Cronk professionalism and control makes everyone around him a better player aswell

Agree and disagree.
He helps them, however, Smith made a GF without him and Slater, then WON a comp without him and Slater

 

[COVENS]

Fair enough, your opinion.
Ps he didn’t beat them. Keary and Tedesco did. He also went to a team with internationals everywhere.
Your opinion though.
For the record, I don’t think he’s shit, just overrated and not as good as our own.

I dunno, I think we get into an endless argument at that point: the forwards beat them, the Roosters 17 were better then the Storm 17 etc - a lot went into the win, Cronks leadership and experience included.

What we can tangibly measure is the 2 years of Cronk being at the Roosters.
2 premierships against the Storms 0 in that time frame with a 3-2 head to head.

Let's not pretend like the Storm didn't have a bunch of rep players too.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Couldn't agree more. He doesn't get enough praise in my opinion. Others were more talented (Johns, Thurston) but if I'm picking a career halfback - there is no better.

Cronk is great but he played in teams at Melbourne with the greatest hooker and one of the best FB ever and at the Chooks that was stacked with superstars across the field. Cronk was not in a position where he had to consistently lead a side that was outgunned by superior opposition or encounter a team stacked with all time greats. Cronk's capacity is limited to leading a great team, he doesn't have the ability to win matches in his own when his team is outclassed. Mortimer on the other hand won plenty of matches for the Dogs on his own pure brilliance and faced the legendary Parra side for most of his career. He was the reason why the Dogs made the 79 GF from fifth place, he saved 3 tries in the 80 GF win, he led us to our 85 GF win when Baa missed the match due to injury and in many commentators eye's he was the best player on the field when we lost the 86 GF to Parra who consistently took him out with late tackles. If Bugden had passed to Turvey on the final play we would have won the 86 GF as Turvey spotted an overlap. Sterlo said it himself a couple of years ago. Whenever his Parra side faced the Dogs their main focus was how to limit Turvey's impact on the game because they knew he was a match winner and the key to the outcome of the game. "Immortal" Bob Fulton once said Turvey was the chief reason the Dogs were so dominant in the 80's and the best HB he's ever seen.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Agree and disagree.
He helps them, however, Smith made a GF without him and Slater, then WON a comp without him and Slater

IMO at ARL/NRL level:
Best FB - Slater.
Best 5/8 - Baa. Kenny close behind.
Best HB - Turvey comfortably. Sterlo a fair distance behind then followed by Langer and co.
Best Hooker - Smith by a country mile. The best player this century.

 

[COVENS]

Cronk is great but he played in teams at Melbourne with the greatest hooker and one of the best FB ever and at the Chooks that was stacked with superstars across the field. Cronk was not in a position where he had to consistently lead a side that was outgunned by superior opposition or encounter a team stacked with all time greats. Cronk's capacity is limited to leading a great team, he doesn't have the ability to win matches in his own when his team is outclassed. Mortimer on the other hand won plenty of matches for the Dogs on his own pure brilliance and faced the legendary Parra side for most of his career. He was the reason why the Dogs made the 79 GF from fifth place, he saved 3 tries in the 80 GF win, he led us to our 85 GF win when Baa missed the match due to injury and in many commentators eye's he was the best player on the field when we lost the 86 GF to Parra who consistently took him out with late tackles. If Bugden had passed to Turvey on the final play we would have won the 86 GF as Turvey spotted an overlap. Sterlo said it himself a couple of years ago. Whenever his Parra side faced the Dogs their main focus was how to limit Turvey's impact on the game because they knew he was a match winner and the key to the outcome of the game. "Immortal" Bob Fulton once said Turvey was the chief reason the Dogs were so dominant in the 80's and the best HB he's ever seen.

The original point made by Turvey Chip.. was that Mortimer won 4 premierships so he should be considered an immortal before Cronk. I was simply stating: Cronk has also won 4.

Everything else is windowdressing.

You might prefer the game of the 80's but the game today and the players involved are objectively more professional. Bigger, faster, fitter and stronger.

 

[vegny]

Even discounting the fact that players today are bigger, faster, stronger etc, mortimer was never the dominant no 1 hb of his era like joey, jt and cronk were. Those 3 were auto selection for rep sides.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

The original point made by Turvey Chip.. was that Mortimer won 4 premierships so he should be considered an immortal before Cronk. I was simply stating: Cronk has also won 4.

Everything else is windowdressing.

You might prefer the game of the 80's but the game today and the players involved are objectively more professional. Bigger, faster, fitter and stronger.

And as I pointed out in my previous posts Cronk won 4 GF playing for 2 contracts Melbourne and Uncle Nick's Chooks, teams with a dubious history either with the salary cap or player salaries that don't pass a sanity check. Put Cronk in a mid table team with average players and can he win them a GF? Cronk is a great half. He's a better big game player than Johns and Thurston but he's not in Turvey's or Sterlo's class. As for the 80's the players back then had more natural talent and intelligence. Most of them had a licensed trade and a full time job, it was far more violent and head high tackles, elbows, punches and late tackles were the norm and a lot of dirty players got away with it. Most of that era was played under the 5m rule and it was harder to break the line. Today's players are bigger and fitter because of advances in sports science, training etc and most of them are too dumb to even qualify for a trade and need to be spoon fed on how to play. If Turvey, Baa, Sterlo, Kenny played in today's era with access to today's training, dieting, big salaries etc they'll run rings around today's halves....easily.

 

[COVENS]

And as I pointed out in my previous posts Cronk won 4 GF playing for 2 contracts Melbourne and Uncle Nick's Chooks, teams with a dubious history either with the salary cap or player salaries that don't pass a sanity check. Put Cronk in a mid table team with average players and can he win them a GF? Cronk is a great half. He's a better big game player than Johns and Thurston but he's not in Turvey's or Sterlo's class. As for the 80's the players back then had more natural talent and intelligence. Most of them had a licensed trade and a full time job, it was far more violent and head high tackles, elbows, punches and late tackles were the norm and a lot of dirty players got away with it. Most of that era was played under the 5m rule and it was harder to break the line. Today's players are bigger and fitter because of advances in sports science, training etc and most of them are too dumb to even qualify for a trade and need to be spoon fed on how to play. If Turvey, Baa, Sterlo, Kenny played in today's era with access to today's training, dieting, big salaries etc they'll run rings around today's halves....easily.

Yep and you've said in this thread that you don't hold any asterisks against those premierships...

Have you got any evidence to back that statement up? I mean I could say if Cronk played in the 80's he would have won 8 premierships. Also I'm not sure if anyone would call Cronk, dumb.

 

[D0GMATIC]

IMO at ARL/NRL level:
Best FB - Slater.
Best 5/8 - Baa. Kenny close behind.
Best HB - Turvey comfortably. Sterlo a fair distance behind then followed by Langer and co.
Best Hooker - Smith by a country mile. The best player this century.

I love Baa, He’s a legend and one of my favourite players.But I don’t think he was better than Kenny.He was definitely more durable than Kenny