Negative emotion & not being realistic

[TwinTurbo]

My question to you is - have you seen any evolution of our style of play between Deano and Dessy?

It's bit unrealistic to demand "evolution" when the players can't even get a simple game plan right. Dropped balls, forward passes, missing tackles, inconsistent line speed, no backing up the ball carrier etc etc. They aren't coaching deficiencies, they are player issues. We can't move on to more sophisticated play when we can't even get the basic right. Undeniably the completion rate has improved, that's a cornerstone, it's not the end game but it's what the end game is built on. The next cornerstone is defence and quite frankly it's horrid, players making their own decisions to hang back, rush up, slide etc independently of each other with no consideration for the team structure. Again they aren't coaching deficiencies, they are player issues.

Posters complain when Pay drops a player for not playing as part of the team, be it on the field, off the field or in training, but that's the discipline that they plainly need to get them to play as part of the team once again that's on the field, off the field or in training.

Go Dogs

 

[Doggiezbrah]

We have a roster that is not wooden spoon material. Yes, Pay has inherited a mess but he selects the team every week, he has made signings despite having no money (CHN, Napa, Crichton, Priest, DWZ, Cogger, Sue & Meaney).

We lack cohesion in attack and our defence is non existent. He makes baffling subs and keeps faith with his favourites. At least Brown had coaching experience and you can see the effort by his team. Pay is clearly out of his depth and should be let go ASAP. I knew he was out of his depth since round 6 last season.

 

[TwinTurbo]

We have a roster that is not wooden spoon material.

So exactly who's roster is "wooden spoon material"?

Go Dogs

 

[Doggiezbrah]

Oddly enough I can see your point regarding Pay.

In saying that I still don't think he's our man. Look at the Sea Eagles and Raiders when we played them with an arguably weaker side than us. We still got our pants pulled down and Pay was easily out-coached.

People here were saying the eagles would finish below us because of Hasler. Any experienced coach would get us paying better.

 

[Doggiezbrah]

So exactly who's roster is "wooden spoon material"?

Go Dogs

Look at the titans roster. Barley any rep players and their marquee player isn't available.

 

[Dogs Of War]

I don't know any more, however the coaching staff should be doing the recruiting.

Yeah cause that worked out so well with Des Hasler. Pay may say I like a particular player, or want a particular position, and be consulted on the players available that fit that description. But it's not up to Pay to manage the salary cap and thus recruitment of players is done well outside of the coaching staff.

 

[TwinTurbo]

People here were saying the eagles would finish below us because of Hasler. Any experienced coach would get us paying better.

With Cherry Evan, Walker, Taupau, Fonua-Blake and the Trbojevic Bros, they are where they belong in the 8. All of them would walk straight into our team, no hesitation.

Go Dogs

 

[Shanked]

my main gripe is that it still doesn't look like the players know what they are doing, even after getting rid of hasler

 

[Novdoggie]

Wow, where do I start with this post...?

It's OK you have two years

 

[TwinTurbo]

Look at the titans roster. Barley any rep players and their marquee player isn't available.

They have won one more game than us, yes it's one more game than what we have managed, but it's not like they are soaring with the eagles (sic) and we aren't.

Go Dogs

 

[GDR]

It's bit unrealistic to demand "evolution" when the players can't even get a simple game plan right. Dropped balls, forward passes, missing tackles, inconsistent line speed, no backing up the ball carrier etc etc. They aren't coaching deficiencies, they are player issues. We can't move on to more sophisticated play when we can't even get the basic right. Undeniably the completion rate has improved, that's a cornerstone, it's not the end game but it's what the end game is built on. The next cornerstone is defence and quite frankly it's horrid, players making their own decisions to hang back, rush up, slide etc independently of each other with no consideration for the team structure. Again they aren't coaching deficiencies, they are player issues.

Posters complain when Pay drops a player for not playing as part of the team, be it on the field, off the field or in training, but that's the discipline that they plainly need to get them to play as part of the team once again that's on the field, off the field or in training.

Go Dogs

Get your hand off it mate.. by your logic, the coach has zero accountability for what happens on the field …. I know you are the eternal optimist, but seriously, cmon……………….

 

[Wahesh]

A lot of people are questioning Pay's team selection... well considering most of the players in team are shit, no matter who he plays where, the team will still lose.

I'm over arguing with people about this shit.

 

[Novdoggie]

Morale is low atm because the players know Pay is not the long term coach and don't want to play for him. About three quarters of the squad don't even know where their futures are at and it's a distraction. Until we get a new coach and he starts building his own squad where the players want to play for him then we can forget about moving forward.

 

[Moey]

You talk about Nathan Brown for example..

Yeah he won wooden spoons but look at the players he has brought through grade and have now progressed under his coaching.

Barnett Levi Saifiti Fitzgibbon Watson and Nathan ross to a point have all excelled from nobodies to top players and even Saifiti made Origin. No way in the world would Pay have made these players excel if he was in Newcastle coach. Then he recruited top players like Ponga who was an unknown freak. Pearce etc etc

Who did Pay identify, Cogger Meaney chricton that Canberra forward who didn't last a year, and other shit players .

Pretty much any talented player we have had in our system has regressed or not been able to make it into Fg or even get a decent shot at FG under Pay.

What we have atm isnt premiership winning team, but, under a coach like Bellamy etc players like

Smith, toomaga Ogden Harper Martin for example could have been given better shots at FG and have excelled to the point, we just had to add a Ponga or Pearce type player and a hooker and we would have excelled to semi final team.

Team has potential but don't have the coach to take next level.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Get your hand off it mate.. by your logic, the coach has zero accountability for what happens on the field …. I know you are the eternal optimist, but seriously, cmon……………….

Where exactly did I say that the coach has zero accountability? I was simply pointing out the farkin obvious, that the players have to learn and execute the basics first. Which NRL players should already know, but plainly we have some (not all) that can't execute under pressure, their basics fall apart when they are subject to an NRL level of intensity. This is why some look like world beaters in CC but when they get to NRL they fall in a heap. It's not that they don't know the basics, aren't coached the basics, don't train the basics every single day. It's that they can't handle the pressure, the lift in intensity, at NRL level. That's why we have players who flip between CC and NRL, they get dropped, do OK (even star) in CC, get promoted and then flop again. Sure some of it is the coaching staff's responsibility, but by far the majority of it is the player's raw ability and their ability to learn. The two don't always go hand in hand, plus there is the willingness to put in the hard yards and learn, which some quite frankly just don't have.

Go Dogs

 

[AlzzBulldog]

Dean Pay ain't a first grade coach, the players see it. I've heard he just doesn't know how to coach. When the coach doesn't know how to coach your team ain't going to perform. We may not have the greatest players but I'm sure they can perform better under a better coach.

Is there any chance he goes mid season

 

[GDR]

Where exactly did I say that the coach has zero accountability? I was simply pointing out the farkin obvious, that the players have to learn and execute the basics first. Which NRL players should already know, but plainly we have some (not all) that can't execute under pressure, their basics fall apart when they are subject to an NRL level of intensity. This is why some look like world beaters in CC but when they get to NRL they fall in a heap. It's not that they don't know the basics, aren't coached the basics, don't train the basics every single day. It's that they can't handle the pressure, the lift in intensity, at NRL level. That's why we have players who flip between CC and NRL, they get dropped, do OK (even star) in CC, get promoted and then flop again. Sure some of it is the coaching staff's responsibility, but by far the majority of it is the player's raw ability and their ability to learn. The two don't always go hand in hand, plus there is the willingness to put in the hard yards and learn, which some quite frankly just don't have.

Go Dogs

your ability to find an excuse is outstanding, you should run for parliament..

 

[maroondog72]

he dropped ogden and put meaney on the wing against mitchell and toupo...................enough said

 

[JayBee]

It's bit unrealistic to demand "evolution" when the players can't even get a simple game plan right. Dropped balls, forward passes, missing tackles, inconsistent line speed, no backing up the ball carrier etc etc. They aren't coaching deficiencies, they are player issues. We can't move on to more sophisticated play when we can't even get the basic right. Undeniably the completion rate has improved, that's a cornerstone, it's not the end game but it's what the end game is built on. The next cornerstone is defence and quite frankly it's horrid, players making their own decisions to hang back, rush up, slide etc independently of each other with no consideration for the team structure. Again they aren't coaching deficiencies, they are player issues.

Posters complain when Pay drops a player for not playing as part of the team, be it on the field, off the field or in training, but that's the discipline that they plainly need to get them to play as part of the team once again that's on the field, off the field or in training.

Go Dogs

We have the BEST completion rate. So dropped balls, null and void.
Forward passes - see above.
Missing tackles - D is an ATTITUDE. Clearly we are lacking
Line speed inconsistency - our line speed, I would argue, was garbage under Des in the last 2 years, and has not bettered
Backing up the ball carrier - OH DER. Stevie Wonder could tell you we need improvement there. And we haven't seen ANY.

I'm all for giving a bloke time - but he is either going to be another Mick Potter, or Alex Ferguson... and I can tell you it definitely does not look like the latter.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Dean Pay ain't a first grade coach, the players see it. I've heard he just doesn't know how to coach. When the coach doesn't know how to coach your team ain't going to perform. We may not have the greatest players but I'm sure they can perform better under a better coach.

Who's your source?

Mine, I heard from Ricky Stuart that Pay deserved and earned an NRL coaching role and Craig Bellamy spoke highly of him when he was his assistant. Plus a couple of the NSW Under 20's players specifically commented on the improvement in their game as result of Pay's coaching. Somehow I trust my sources more.

Go Dogs