Marcelo Montoya needs to go.

[KiwiDog7]

That time many here wanted him as starting fullback

Yup maybe ISP

 

[magdog]

No different to Lichaa being dropped to find some confidence playing the game with less pressure. Needs to happen...added to that you have a ready made replacement who makes more impact in 15 mins than he’s making in 160mins.

 

[LordSidious66]

Foran isn't the problem. The lack of support around Foran is.

He takes the ball to the line, attracts defenders, looks to offload and everyones standing around hands on hips. Fix that and you'll see a shitload of tries off him.

Watch in the back even if he's not involved in a play he's barking orders.

Plus he's playing injured at the moment as his knee/hamstring isn't 100%.

..

Re Montoya we are fucked.. Our board banged on so hard about our juniors, there is no way they'll let Pay release him, despite how shit he has been.

Starting to look like Monty was a One Season Wonder.

Foran bombed two potential tries. He is one of the problems along with Hoppa.

 

[Trafford10]

Foran bombed two potential tries. He is one of the problems along with Hoppa.

What is your problem with Hoppa for fuck sake.
He runs the most meters of our backs every week and is one of our few players that has the ability to break a tackle.

 

[Bull Terrier]

It’s not Montoya’s fault; it’s the fault of Pay. We appear to be short every single time the opposition shifts it to their left, as some of you have said, it’s more of a structural issue than individual.

My main gripe with Montoya are his carries; they’re ineffective, and we struggle to gain momentum early in the attacking set. Hopoate needs to be shifted to the wing primarily for his strong ball running ability. Holland to slot in the centres.

It isn’t all Montoya s fault, he and hoppa haven’t got a brain between them in defence. But in saying that the main culprit is Foran he continuously misses his man and cause the overlap which brings in hoppa and Montoya if Foran was on the Morris twins side they wouldn’t let that happen because they read the play well

 

[Bull Terrier]

What is your problem with Hoppa for fuck sake.
He runs the most meters of our back every week and is one of our few players that has the ability to break a tackle.

I agree with what you say about hoppa s attack it’s excellent but his defence is not nrl standard which is disappointing.

 

[Bull Terrier]

Foran is the biggest problem with our team. The fact he’s on 800k a year means pay can’t and won’t drop him. A - because if he drops him the club looks retarded and like complete suckers for being connned into signing him and B - if he gets dropped then say goodbye to being able to offload him without having to pay at least 80% of his wage cause no one will pay more than minimum wage for him. Fix our halves and our season can be built on. Parras second try Montoya was infield but Foran had run in late to try a tackle on a player who passed before he even got near the player and ended up inside Jackson by 5 metres!! Then Jacko is trying to slide to cover Foran and hoppa and Montoya had moved in following Foran the retard. Hence the overlap. I know Montoya has been shit in defence but he and hoppa have had no help from Foran and his one arm.

Agree with u Foran is causing the problem with our overlap on the right side, happens to often. Lines the player up but just dosent tackle causing hoppa and Montoya to do the same. I would move him to Morris boys side they won’tlet that happen

 

[bullanth]

Holland should come in. Bring back Liccha and Farmer Brown (taking Hollands position on bench) as well. Liccha and Farmer Brown to do 20 minute high energy stints each. Holland much safer proposition than Montoya. Also need the inside guys to be pushing out. Remember also for Broncos game we had inexperienced Rhys Martin on RHS (instead of Jackson) next to Foran with a busted back, then Hoppa then Montoya...its a wonder Broncos didnt score 3 tries down that side.

They did,watch the replay

 

[KLil]

Agree with u Foran is causing the problem with our overlap on the right side, happens to often. Lines the player up but just dosent tackle causing hoppa and Montoya to do the same. I would move him to Morris boys side they won’tlet that happen

That's one solution but may not fix anything...

All they need to do is rush up on the shift and have Mbye cover the kick. Either that or shift Foran to his preferred left side next to the twins and blood Lewis who is a good defender and talker.

 

[BELMORE]

Hoopa is one of the best In attack but his defence seems suspect. Could be effected by Montoya though...

 

[Bull Terrier]

That's one solution but may not fix anything...

All they need to do is rush up on the shift and have Mbye cover the kick. Either that or shift Foran to his preferred left side next to the twins and blood Lewis who is a good defender and talker.

Totally agree. Wanted lewis on that right side for ages even started a thread on him weeks ago

 

[Trafford10]

I agree with what you say about hoppa s attack it’s excellent but his defence is not nrl standard which is disappointing.

Not to mention he is the only one in the team that seems able to catch a bomb in attack!!

 

[LordSidious66]

What is your problem with Hoppa for fuck sake.
He runs the most meters of our backs every week and is one of our few players that has the ability to break a tackle.

He is a liability in defense. He rushes in and boom opposition score.

 

[Deathspell]

They keep scoring on Montoya for 3 reasons:

1) he's often out of position (kick behind and score)

2) he doesn't read the attack well

And most importantly...

3) he's usually defending against 2-3 players 'cause his inside players are nowhere to be seen

Hoppa comes in and leaves Montoya to defend against 3 players, but Hoppa only comes in 'cause his inside defenders have gone missing. It's not entirely Montoya's fault or Hoppa's fault. It's the fault of the whole right edge and until you fix that issue then dropping wingers or centres isn't going to fix the issue.

* A lot of the problems start in the middle,most times it's because of Aaron Woods.
* Or poor reads by Moses Mbye in organizing the defense,when the fullback lines up to inject himself,or when both halves are on same side of the ruck.
* Or JJ not organizing the defense,when 2 players from the right edge are both caught at markers and can't slow the ruck.JJ needs to communicate with the 2nd marker to move across to the
2nd row position,so he can slide into the half position,allowing the outside 2 to slide further out.Failing to do so,will end up in an overlap.This was an area Tolman covered reasonably well at lock.
* Or we are letting too many 2nd phase plays happen in the middle.

Example: Woods causing Parra's 1st try.
1) Will Smith from dummy half passes to Mitchell Moses. (Bulldogs are 1 short in the middle right,Aaron Woods is out of the line 1m behind the ref,ffs.JJ has to plug that gap,dragging the line 1 in.RFM is running across fast to try and plug the Aaron Woods gap,to free JJ).
2) Mitchell Moses takes on the line and commits JJ,Manu Ma'u runs decoy at Rhyse Martin.
3) Kieran Foran hasn't started sliding and points to Rhyse Martin to take on Norman,who's about to get the ball with 4 on his outside.(that's 5 on 4 overlap,with Clint Gutherson ready to inject himself and Bevan French out wide unmarked)
4) Rhyse Martin moves on Corey Norman but is too late and he pushes the ball to Clint Gutherson.
5) Tepai Moeroa runs decoy at Kieran Foran who ignores him and starts sliding,whilst back peddling with Hoppa and Marcelo Montoya.
6) Clint Gutherson runs at Kieran Foran to stop the slide,creates a small gap and passes to Brad Takairangi on the burst (who has Bevan French out wide unmarked).
7) Brad Takairangi runs at Hoppa,Marcelo Montoya has too much real estate to make up on his outside,so he tries to assist Hoppa to kill the ball.
8) Brad Takairangi throws a great pass to Bevan French.Kieran Foran and Rhyse Martin chase.
9) Moses Mbye who started running across a bit late,was taken out of the equation by Bevan French's speed.
10) Bevan French passes on the inside to Clint Gutherson.

Example: JJ causing Parra's 2nd try.
1) Will Smith from dummy half passes to Corey Norman.
2) Corey Norman passes to Daniel Alvaro.
3) Daniel Alvaro runs at Aaron Woods and Rhyse Martin (who was at 2nd marker with Kieran Foran at 1st marker.Rhyse Martin instead of moving to the right to allow JJ to plug Kieran Foran position,runs left to assist Aaron Woods.JJ should have called Rhyse Martin into position and trusted Jeremy Marshall-King with assisting Aaron Woods).
4) To compound the problem Daniel Alvaro wasn't held by Aaron Woods and Rhyse Martin and gets ball away to Will Smith.
5) Will Smith quickly passes to Clint Gutherson.(with Kieran Foran out of the line there is a 4 on 3 overlap).
6) Clint Gutherson runs at the gap between JJ and Hoppa with Tepai Moeroa running with him as decoy.
7) Clint Gutherson gets past JJ who lunges and grabs him from behind,but stays vertical.(Clint Gutherson has Brad Takairangi and Bevan French on the outside against Marcelo Montoya and himself and Tepai Moeroa against Hoppa).
8) Hoppa blocks Clint Gutherson progress,who throws a cut out pass to Bevan French as Brad Takairangi runs decoy at Marcelo Montoya.
9) Marcelo Montoya readjusts and throws himself at Bevan French,but misses,as he dives in the corner with Hoppa,Kieran Foran,Rhyse Martin and Moses Mbye (in that order) coming across.

If anyone is blaming either Hoppa or Marcelo Montoya for either of those two tries conceded against Parra,they are not doing an analyses of why either try was scored.
Before I get bombarded with causes for past tries conceded,I'm happy to list in detail how each try unfolded.I'm not saying the right edge is faultless,far from it.
Fault belongs to who commits it,I've got no allegiance to any player,but only to the Bulldogs.If we are going to be fair to our players and team we need to forget bias and not be too quick to judge.

 

[doggieaaron]

Pay has made some good changes he now needs to drop montoya

 

[Oatley Dog]

* A lot of the problems start in the middle,most times it's because of Aaron Woods.
* Or poor reads by Moses Mbye in organizing the defense,when the fullback lines up to inject himself,or when both halves are on same side of the ruck.
* Or JJ not organizing the defense,when 2 players from the right edge are both caught at markers and can't slow the ruck.JJ needs to communicate with the 2nd marker to move across to the
2nd row position,so he can slide into the half position,allowing the outside 2 to slide further out.Failing to do so,will end up in an overlap.This was an area Tolman covered reasonably well at lock.
* Or we are letting too many 2nd phase plays happen in the middle.

Example: Woods causing Parra's 1st try.
1) Will Smith from dummy half passes to Mitchell Moses. (Bulldogs are 1 short in the middle right,Aaron Woods is out of the line 1m behind the ref,ffs.JJ has to plug that gap,dragging the line 1 in.RFM is running across fast to try and plug the Aaron Woods gap,to free JJ).
2) Mitchell Moses takes on the line and commits JJ,Manu Ma'u runs decoy at Rhyse Martin.
3) Kieran Foran hasn't started sliding and points to Rhyse Martin to take on Norman,who's about to get the ball with 4 on his outside.(that's 5 on 4 overlap,with Clint Gutherson ready to inject himself and Bevan French out wide unmarked)
4) Rhyse Martin moves on Corey Norman but is too late and he pushes the ball to Clint Gutherson.
5) Tepai Moeroa runs decoy at Kieran Foran who ignores him and starts sliding,whilst back peddling with Hoppa and Marcelo Montoya.
6) Clint Gutherson runs at Kieran Foran to stop the slide,creates a small gap and passes to Brad Takairangi on the burst (who has Bevan French out wide unmarked).
7) Brad Takairangi runs at Hoppa,Marcelo Montoya has too much real estate to make up on his outside,so he tries to assist Hoppa to kill the ball.
8) Brad Takairangi throws a great pass to Bevan French.Kieran Foran and Rhyse Martin chase.
9) Moses Mbye who started running across a bit late,was taken out of the equation by Bevan French's speed.
10) Bevan French passes on the inside to Clint Gutherson.

Example: JJ causing Parra's 2nd try.
1) Will Smith from dummy half passes to Corey Norman.
2) Corey Norman passes to Daniel Alvaro.
3) Daniel Alvaro runs at Aaron Woods and Rhyse Martin (who was at 2nd marker with Kieran Foran at 1st marker.Rhyse Martin instead of moving to the right to allow JJ to plug Kieran Foran position,runs left to assist Aaron Woods.JJ should have called Rhyse Martin into position and trusted Jeremy Marshall-King with assisting Aaron Woods).
4) To compound the problem Daniel Alvaro wasn't held by Aaron Woods and Rhyse Martin and gets ball away to Will Smith.
5) Will Smith quickly passes to Clint Gutherson.(with Kieran Foran out of the line there is a 4 on 3 overlap).
6) Clint Gutherson runs at the gap between JJ and Hoppa with Tepai Moeroa running with him as decoy.
7) Clint Gutherson gets past JJ who lunges and grabs him from behind,but stays vertical.(Clint Gutherson has Brad Takairangi and Bevan French on the outside against Marcelo Montoya and himself and Tepai Moeroa against Hoppa).
8) Hoppa blocks Clint Gutherson progress,who throws a cut out pass to Bevan French as Brad Takairangi runs decoy at Marcelo Montoya.
9) Marcelo Montoya readjusts and throws himself at Bevan French,but misses,as he dives in the corner with Hoppa,Kieran Foran,Rhyse Martin and Moses Mbye (in that order) coming across.

If anyone is blaming either Hoppa or Marcelo Montoya for either of those two tries conceded against Parra,they are not doing an analyses of why either try was scored.
Before I get bombarded with causes for past tries conceded,I'm happy to list in detail how each try unfolded.I'm not saying the right edge is faultless,far from it.
Fault belongs to who commits it,I've got no allegiance to any player,but only to the Bulldogs.If we are going to be fair to our players and team we need to forget bias and not be too quick to judge.

All of this revisionist analysis is fine but the truth is that every try scored in the NRL is essentially a defensive lapse, otherwise it wouldn't be scored. The key issue is decision making. Several times the other night Hoppa rushed in and cut off the attack and stopped the play on the right side. There was still an overlap but he was able to stop the play. El Masri wasn't the quickest winger going around but he was one of the smartest and he used to do the same thing. Worked most - but not all the time. Montoya's problem is that he has no trust in his fellow players and feels the need to rush in but when he gets there he doesn't commit and that leaves the overlap down the right side. His choice is simple either commit and rush in or stay out wide like most wingers do and trust the inside blokes to do their job. One thing is for sure; while ever he is in FG most teams will run plays to isolate him. He is a weakness.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

All of this revisionist analysis is fine but the truth is that every try scored in the NRL is essentially a defensive lapse, otherwise it wouldn't be scored. The key issue is decision making. Several times the other night Hoppa rushed in and cut off the attack and stopped the play on the right side. There was still an overlap but he was able to stop the play. El Masri wasn't the quickest winger going around but he was one of the smartest and he used to do the same thing. Worked most - but not all the time. Montoya's problem is that he has no trust in his fellow players and feels the need to rush in but when he gets there he doesn't commit and that leaves the overlap down the right side. His choice is simple either commit and rush in or stay out wide like most wingers do and trust the inside blokes to do their job. One thing is for sure; while ever he is in FG most teams will run plays to isolate him. He is a weakness.

He's not the smartest footballer out there. Never seems to be able to read the play defensively. He's definitely a major problem right now.

But it's two fold. He is a problem but his problems wouldn't be apparent if it wasn't for the fact that our whole right side defensive structure wasn't screwed. As I see it the main problem is the bad defensive structure. That needs to be fixed first and foremost. The second problem is Montoya not being able to read the attack.

In other words, I think Montoya should be dropped due to his problems but dropping him is pointless if you can't fix the real main problem there.

 

[Anditsgone]

I’m all for dropping Montoya,
But if we isolate the defence area he is getting most caught out in
It’s how the dogs defence comes up and in, leaving an overlap scenario that teams are exploiting.

You can’t completely blame Montoya for that,

Each guy inside him needs to stay out a yard wider to minimise the open space.

And Mbye needs to be in the in goal following the ball as cover defence as all other good fullbacks do

Billy slater does this well and has stopped plenty of overlap corner try’s by coming across in cover.

Surely our coaching staff are addressing this?

It’s pretty simple stuff.

 

[Oatley Dog]

I’m all for dropping Montoya,
But if we isolate the defence area he is getting most caught out in
It’s how the dogs defence comes up and in, leaving an overlap scenario that teams are exploiting.

You can’t completely blame Montoya for that,

Each guy inside him needs to stay out a yard wider to minimise the open space.

And Mbye needs to be in the in goal following the ball as cover defence as all other good fullbacks do

Billy slater does this well and has stopped plenty of overlap corner try’s by coming across in cover.

Surely our coaching staff are addressing this?

It’s pretty simple stuff.

There's nothing wrong with up and in defence as long as it is executed properly and that's the problem, Montoya seems to get caught in no mans land every time with one on the inside and one on the outside of him and him looking at fresh air. There's no doubt the opp is targeting Foran because they know he has suspect shoulders and he is pretty much our only playmaker. He's doing over 20 tackles a game. That means they will throw numbers on their left (our right) time and again. I noticed the other night that JJ missed a couple of tackles even when he was in the middle. You only need to miss a couple a game and you are 12 down. That's our problem. They run 30 plays at our right side a game and we bugger up 2 or 3 and we lose the game.

 

[Boxer]

I’m all for dropping Montoya,
But if we isolate the defence area he is getting most caught out in
It’s how the dogs defence comes up and in, leaving an overlap scenario that teams are exploiting.

You can’t completely blame Montoya for that,

Each guy inside him needs to stay out a yard wider to minimise the open space.

And Mbye needs to be in the in goal following the ball as cover defence as all other good fullbacks do

Billy slater does this well and has stopped plenty of overlap corner try’s by coming across in cover.

Surely our coaching staff are addressing this?

It’s pretty simple stuff.

This is exactly right every coach in the nrl or even junior level coach wingers to follow there centre.
Even when I played coached always says if the centre goes in field you must follow,
You can’t have a winger marking a winger and leaving a massive hole where there centre should be.
Hoppa and Foran should take most of the blame.