News Keary set to take less to stay at the Roosters

[Dawgfather]

Keary set to take less to stay

AKA

"Keary will be recorded as taking a lower amount according to the Roosters accounting records"

.....

 

[B-Train]

Keary set to take less to stay

AKA

"Keary will be recorded as taking a lower amount according to the Roosters accounting records"

.....

And then when his contract is up, it will magically free up $1.3 million.

 

[MichaelM]

Why are we still talking about this - players can legally earn an unlimited amount of money outside the cap, so a side with the connections the Roosters have can sign who they like for whatever amount they want and they will always be under the cap.

It's in black and white on the NRL site under "integrity"

What players can earn outside the salary cap
Unlimited - Players can earn unlimited amounts from corporate sponsors who are not associated with the club and who do not use the game's intellectual property (no club logos, jerseys or emblems) provided these are pre-approved by both a Player’s Club and the NRL. These agreements may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.

Unless the NRL enforce a minimum notional salary (based on a players ability) that must be included under the cap, then Roosters will continue to take the cream of the crop.

 

[Alan79]

Why are we still talking about this - players can legally earn an unlimited amount of money outside the cap, so a side with the connections the Roosters have can sign who they like for whatever amount they want and they will always be under the cap.

It's in black and white on the NRL site under "integrity"

What players can earn outside the salary cap
Unlimited - Players can earn unlimited amounts from corporate sponsors who are not associated with the club and who do not use the game's intellectual property (no club logos, jerseys or emblems) provided these are pre-approved by both a Player’s Club and the NRL. These agreements may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.

Unless the NRL enforce a minimum notional salary (based on a players ability) that must be included under the cap, then Roosters will continue to take the cream of the crop.

It needs discussion, probably not from the fans though. It's supposed to be a situation currently where a club can't pay dramatically lower prices compared to the best offer on the open market. The idea of the salary cap is not to allow rich clubs with corporate sponsorship options to get talent without paying the full amount under the cap. It's clearly being exploited by a few clubs, none more evident than the Roosters.

Fans of every club want to be able to compete for the premiership. And a healthy competition wouldn't see the teams with stacked rosters scalping quality talent from teams that have one or two star players under the guise of those players moving for the chance to win a premiership. Even if the players in question do legitimately want to make the move, the club chasing them should have to pay market value, thus ensuring that other talent in their already stacked roster is going to be vulnerable to outside offers.

Just apply a little bit of theoretical maths to the situation. Let's use the idea that Keary signs for 270k under market value. Supposedly Tedesco is on about 200k under his market value and probably a few others. So theoretically the Roosters have at least 500k under the cap to scalp another very good player from a club that can scarcely afford to lose that player.

It would be pretty simple for the NRL to apply the rules they have in place to stop this happening. If two clubs are willing to offer 1 million and 1.1 million for a player, their market value is 1.05 million. Even if a star team is an attractive prospect for a player, they can't simply go there for 800k under the guise of it being their best chance of winning a premiership. It would prevent a stacked club from even making an offer.

 

[B-Train]

Why are we still talking about this - players can legally earn an unlimited amount of money outside the cap, so a side with the connections the Roosters have can sign who they like for whatever amount they want and they will always be under the cap.

It's in black and white on the NRL site under "integrity"

What players can earn outside the salary cap
Unlimited - Players can earn unlimited amounts from corporate sponsors who are not associated with the club and who do not use the game's intellectual property (no club logos, jerseys or emblems) provided these are pre-approved by both a Player’s Club and the NRL. These agreements may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.

Unless the NRL enforce a minimum notional salary (based on a players ability) that must be included under the cap, then Roosters will continue to take the cream of the crop.

The club isn't supposed to arrange or guarantee a TPA...

And according to the bullshit NRL TPA report, the Roosters are only paying 130k a year in TPA's. So if the Roosters aren't taking advantage of TPA's, then we're supposed to believe that players are just forfeiting up to 300k a year each to win comps?

 

[KambahOne]

We offered him an extra 200K on top of what we were already paying him, that's nearly a 30% pay rise. That is what we valued him at and that is what he was willing to accept. On top of staying at a successful club, in an environment where he's obviously happy, he doesn't have to uproot his young family and he keeps playing his way. It is irrelevant what other clubs value Keary at as they cannot negotiate with him. We get in early, we negotiate a great deal and we strengthen the club, kudos to us.

 

[Alan79]

We offered him an extra 200K on top of what we were already paying him, that's nearly a 30% pay rise. That is what we valued him at and that is what he was willing to accept. On top of staying at a successful club, in an environment where he's obviously happy, he doesn't have to uproot his young family and he keeps playing his way. It is irrelevant what other clubs value Keary at as they cannot negotiate with him. We get in early, we negotiate a great deal and we strengthen the club, kudos to us.

The NRL rules are supposed to ensure that players aren't on wages well below market value. The salary cap isn't there to strengthen a team stacked with talent. And this rule of paying a player's actual market value was bought about because clubs have gotten sick of seeing the same few clubs perennially scooping up talent wherever they want.

 

[dogluva]

Still, he left for more money. It doesn't make sense why he and Tedesco wouldn't try and get as much as possible from the Roosters. Unless it was getting made up to them in other ways...

Sure these guys want to win comps, but to suggest that they're going to cost themselves at least 200-300k a season to do it is absurd.

Remember the big hullabaloo and investigation of his contract by the integrity unit relating to TPA??
It is already reported and common knowledge that Tedesco has a very rich third party deal to supplement his "meagre" Roosters wage declared under the cap.

https://www.facebook.com/ACFSPortLogistics/posts/2113812625507064

That deal is not considered a whole-of-game TPA, the one where league sponsors and host broadcasters can weigh in with individual deals which are registered and last year James Tedesco (Holden), Boyd Cordner and Cooper Cronk (both Fox Sports) all enjoyed additional income linked with the NRL.

Want a laugh......see no 11

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ho...as-yet-went-back-to-back-20191213-p53jt3.html
Club TPAs total

1. Storm ($809,998)
2. Broncos ($349,852)
3. Panthers ($233,333)
4. Sharks ($211,952)
5. Rabbitohs ($198,591)
6. Knights ($181,275)
7. Sea Eagles ($148,718)
8. Wests Tigers ($132,458)
9. Dragons ($82,951)
10. Eels ($80,166)
11. Roosters ($68,966)
12. Bulldogs ($59,680)
13. Raiders ($45,333)
14. Warriors ($27,591)
15. Titans ($18,153)

 

[B-Train]

Remember the big hullabaloo and investigation of his contract by the integrity unit relating to TPA??
It is already reported and common knowledge that Tedesco has a very rich third party deal to supplement his "meagre" Roosters wage declared under the cap.

https://www.facebook.com/ACFSPortLogistics/posts/2113812625507064

That deal is not considered a whole-of-game TPA, the one where league sponsors and host broadcasters can weigh in with individual deals which are registered and last year James Tedesco (Holden), Boyd Cordner and Cooper Cronk (both Fox Sports) all enjoyed additional income linked with the NRL.

Want a laugh......see

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ho...as-yet-went-back-to-back-20191213-p53jt3.html
Club TPAs total

1. Storm ($809,998)
2. Broncos ($349,852)
3. Panthers ($233,333)
4. Sharks ($211,952)
5. Rabbitohs ($198,591)
6. Knights ($181,275)
7. Sea Eagles ($148,718)
8. Wests Tigers ($132,458)
9. Dragons ($82,951)
10. Eels ($80,166)
11. Roosters ($68,966)
12. Bulldogs ($59,680)
13. Raiders ($45,333)
14. Warriors ($27,591)
15. Titans ($18,153)

There you go.. It was even less! 70k is laughable. I'm sure the Storm spend more than ten times more on TPA's than the two time defending premiers.

 

[Scoooby]

Let’s just sign Keary an close this thread lol, that would be the absolute best outcome of all..!!!

 

[KambahOne]

The NRL rules are supposed to ensure that players aren't on wages well below market value. The salary cap isn't there to strengthen a team stacked with talent. And this rule of paying a player's actual market value was bought about because clubs have gotten sick of seeing the same few clubs perennially scooping up talent wherever they want.

Market value is a subjective measure if you take into account the current market value of Taylor, Hunt, Foran, Milford, Morgan etc. What are we suppose to overpay because other stupid clubs overpay? That is what you are asking us to do. And if you want an example of how that doesn't work, the NRL set the market value of a returning player who hasn't played NRL for over 6 years at $400K and everyone is screaming "oh that's just ridiculous". Market value is completely subjective based on whether it benefits ones own club.

 

[KambahOne]

Remember the big hullabaloo and investigation of his contract by the integrity unit relating to TPA??
It is already reported and common knowledge that Tedesco has a very rich third party deal to supplement his "meagre" Roosters wage declared under the cap.

https://www.facebook.com/ACFSPortLogistics/posts/2113812625507064

That deal is not considered a whole-of-game TPA, the one where league sponsors and host broadcasters can weigh in with individual deals which are registered and last year James Tedesco (Holden), Boyd Cordner and Cooper Cronk (both Fox Sports) all enjoyed additional income linked with the NRL.

Want a laugh......see no 11

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ho...as-yet-went-back-to-back-20191213-p53jt3.html
Club TPAs total

1. Storm ($809,998)
2. Broncos ($349,852)
3. Panthers ($233,333)
4. Sharks ($211,952)
5. Rabbitohs ($198,591)
6. Knights ($181,275)
7. Sea Eagles ($148,718)
8. Wests Tigers ($132,458)
9. Dragons ($82,951)
10. Eels ($80,166)
11. Roosters ($68,966)
12. Bulldogs ($59,680)
13. Raiders ($45,333)
14. Warriors ($27,591)
15. Titans ($18,153)

lol, as I have said before, even if the NRL publicly revealed what every single player was earning based on their tax records, if it didn't show the Roosters rorting the cap, no one would believe it.

 

[Alan79]

Market value is a subjective measure if you take into account the current market value of Taylor, Hunt, Foran, Milford, Morgan etc. What are we suppose to overpay because other stupid clubs overpay? That is what you are asking us to do. And if you want an example of how that doesn't work, the NRL set the market value of a returning player who hasn't played NRL for over 6 years at $400K and everyone is screaming "oh that's just ridiculous". Market value is completely subjective based on whether it benefits ones own club.

I have some respect for you Kambahone. But when it comes to posts in this thread you have a very skewed view. I get that you don't want to look at your club as cheats. But to me it seems that you overlook the idea that other clubs might have to overpay for talent because clubs like yours somehow find that ability to lure someone who is money hungry one minute, supposedly on under market values.

 

[bradtalo]

NRL are a f..king joke. If Fifita got 1.25M Keary and Tedesco would have to be the biggest f..king idiots in the world if they re-sign for $930K (Keary) or $1M (Tedesco). Each of them could potentially get another $500,000 "per season" more. Only a short time to earn maximum dollars in this game. Do they really care about Politis and the Rorters more than their own families ?? I don't think so. The ONLY THING that makes sense is they have to be getting f..king MASSIVE OVERS under the table for future years or whatever.

 

[KambahOne]

I have some respect for you Kambahone. But when it comes to posts in this thread you have a very skewed view. I get that you don't want to look at your club as cheats. But to me it seems that you overlook the idea that other clubs might have to overpay for talent because clubs like yours somehow find that ability to lure someone who is money hungry one minute, supposedly on under market values.

Thanks for your respect, it is returned and it lets me be equally honest, my view is skewed 100% as I'm a fan and I should not be made to feel guilty for the fact my club has not been found rorting the cap. As I said before, market value is subjective and a lower ranked club will always put more value on an elite player than a leading club will because the value of that player to each club is very different. We valued Mitchell at 800K, the Tigers valued him at 1.1mill, the Cowboys 1mill. We would be stupid to increase our value of Mitchell based on another clubs bid simply because we would then have missed out extending JWH, Tauks, Manu, Sitili and Verills.

You will find examples in every trade, workplace, industry or company where people take less to stay for different reasons. It might be the convenience of location, their workplace is near their home. It might be the familiarity of the people you work with. It might be the non-monetary status you have achieved within that workplace. It might be the confidence you have in knowing how that workplace operates. All of these things are taken into consideration when people change jobs, it's no different for footy players.

There was a time when loyalty was a big commodity in Rugba Leeg and players were commended for staying loyal to certain clubs and taking less to stay. Now it seems that's a pre-requisite for claims of rorting.

 

[Alan79]

Thanks for your respect, it is returned and it lets me be equally honest, my view is skewed 100% as I'm a fan and I should not be made to feel guilty for the fact my club has not been found rorting the cap. As I said before, market value is subjective and a lower ranked club will always put more value on an elite player than a leading club will because the value of that player to each club is very different. We valued Mitchell at 800K, the Tigers valued him at 1.1mill, the Cowboys 1mill. We would be stupid to increase our value of Mitchell based on another clubs bid simply because we would then have missed out extending JWH, Tauks, Manu, Sitili and Verills.

You will find examples in every trade, workplace, industry or company where people take less to stay for different reasons. It might be the convenience of location, their workplace is near their home. It might be the familiarity of the people you work with. It might be the non-monetary status you have achieved within that workplace. It might be the confidence you have in knowing how that workplace operates. All of these things are taken into consideration when people change jobs, it's no different for footy players.

There was a time when loyalty was a big commodity in Rugba Leeg and players were commended for staying loyal to certain clubs and taking less to stay. Now it seems that's a pre-requisite for claims of rorting.

I'm not suggesting that you feel guilty. But it's not flattering to try and defend them using the same logic that people aren't buying from the media.

It's just incredibly hard to believe that loyalty will cause any player to sacrifice 200-300k per year (roughly a quarter of their potential wage) when they'll have 3-5 years left before their potential earnings generally drop down to below $100k a year. Most footy players will be earning closer to 30-40k a year after retirement.

With Politis pulling the strings, your club has the potential to stay at arm's length from outside payments as long as others are complicit. But it doesn't mean that links won't be eventually exposed. It took one pissed off business associate to out the Bulldogs cheating of the salary cap through the Oasis development. And given the amount of time and what many consider to be numerous shady deals around your club, if you do get caught out, I expect that the cheating exposed around other clubs will pale in comparison to what your club has been involved with.

 

[KambahOne]

I'm not suggesting that you feel guilty. But it's not flattering to try and defend them using the same logic that people aren't buying from the media.

It's just incredibly hard to believe that loyalty will cause any player to sacrifice 200-300k per year (roughly a quarter of their potential wage) when they'll have 3-5 years left before their potential earnings generally drop down to below $100k a year. Most footy players will be earning closer to 30-40k a year after retirement.

With Politis pulling the strings, your club has the potential to stay at arm's length from outside payments as long as others are complicit. But it doesn't mean that links won't be eventually exposed. It took one pissed off business associate to out the Bulldogs cheating of the salary cap through the Oasis development. And given the amount of time and what many consider to be numerous shady deals around your club, if you do get caught out, I expect that the cheating exposed around other clubs will pale in comparison to what your club has been involved with.

Given our turnover of players, coaches, administrators, CEO's, trainers, assistant coaches, physios doctors, etc etc, about how long do you expect all these others to remain complicit? Do you honestly believe none of them had a grip with the club about being let go or that none of them are these others you refer too? You want proof of the integrity of my club. We were the first club to cease dealing with that shady prick Issac Moses long before the NRL thought of banning him. It's only now other clubs have ceased dealing with him and are offloading his players. Now if we were as equally shady as you believe, why wouldn't we make use of Moses and his dirty crap rather than cease dealing with him?

 

[bradtalo]

We offered him an extra 200K on top of what we were already paying him, that's nearly a 30% pay rise. That is what we valued him at and that is what he was willing to accept. On top of staying at a successful club, in an environment where he's obviously happy, he doesn't have to uproot his young family and he keeps playing his way. It is irrelevant what other clubs value Keary at as they cannot negotiate with him. We get in early, we negotiate a great deal and we strengthen the club, kudos to us.

He wouldn't have to move house / area to play for another team although he could move into an even bigger house in the same area if he had more $$$$. Just a little more travelling time to training but he could do that in his Lambo or Ferrari. Doesn't make sense not to test the market when you're in his position unless there's something going on behind the scenes - something that is not supposed to be going on under the rules. No company other than the one owned by Nick Politis is going to throw the players money if they can't publicise the fact they are Roosters NRL players etc. Where's the value in it for them ? Doesn't make sense. Plus none of any such payments if there were any are supposed to be used in wage negotiations the rules state. If Fifita got 1.25M a season Keary could get offers of up to 1.5M - that's $570,000 "per season" more than the Roosters are offering. Does he love the Roosters and winning comps more than his family and more than HALF A MILL a year ? YEAH SURE I guess you really believe that ?. If so, hey I have a really good piece of real estate to sell you. Please send me a DM.

Wouldn't surprise me if Politis guaranteed Keary a wage for the 10-20 years after he retires from NRL that will more than make up for any loss of income he will see now by staying with the Roosters. Only thing is it's breaking the rules and CHEATING - the same as any breach of the salary cap - which coincidently cost us a comp in 2002 won by your team who were actually the 2ND best in the comp that year. How did the Roosters improve after 2004 by the way - by buying about 6 Dogs players remember

If we want the same team winning the comp every year just because they have the most $$$$ how boring and then really it's no use the other clubs playing in an unfair rigged comp hey ? How would you like it if the Roosters couldn't compete each year just because the Dogs were more cashed up ? Would you take a big interest in watching games ? Obviously not. What Politis is doing is just the same as cheating the salary cap - he's just found a way around it. Hope it all gets revealed by some honest journo one day and the Roosters are stripped of all their cheating won comps. May not happen in the next 5 - 10 years but it can happen any time - no time limit really until EVERYONE involved is dead of old age.

 

[KambahOne]

He wouldn't have to move house to play for another team although he could move into an even bigger house in the same area. Doesn't make sense not to test the market when you're in his position unless there's something going on behind the scenes - something that is not supposed to be going on under the rules. No company other than the one owned by Nick Politis is going to throw the players money if they can't publicise the fact they are Roosters NRL players etc. Where's the values in it for them ? Doesn't make sense. Plus none of any such payments if there were any are supposed to be used in wage negotiations the rules state. If Fifita got 1.25M a season Keary could get offers of up to 1.5M - that's $570,000 "per season" more than the Roosters are offering. Does he love the Roosters and winning comp's more than his family and more than HALF A MILL a year ? YEAH SURE I guess you really believe that but I don't.

You want to believe a whole heap of numbers you simply made up, go ahead, the media do the same thing with a lot of "if" and "could" in their assumptions. Truth is neither of us know what any player is being paid, but unless we are caught rorting the cap, I won't believe we are.

Wouldn't surprise me if Politis guaranteed Keary a wage for the 10-20 years after he retires from NRL that will more than make up for any loss of income he will see now by staying with the Roosters - only thing is it's breaking the rules and CHEATING - same as any breach of the salary cap - which coincidently cost us a comp in 2002 won by your team who were actually the 2ND best in the comp that year. If we want the same team winning the comp every year because they have the most $$$$ then no use the other clubs playing an unfair rigged comp hey ? How would you like it is the Roosters couldn't compete each year just because the Dogs were cashed up ?

You mean like through the entire 80's and half the 90's? You've only been on the bottom of the ladder for what 4 years? You might need to harden up a bit.

 

[bradtalo]

Made up numbers ?. So it was reported in multiple media articles that Fifita accepted 1.25M a season with the Titans. Now there's several reports Keary is going to take unders (under 1M) to stay at the Roosters. Yes whenever something becomes obvious we don't like we can choose to stick our head in the sand (like a dumb emu) and refuse to believe it. Doesn't mean it's not true though. If Keary or Tedesco hit the open market it would be a bidding war between probably every one of the 16 NRL clubs (maybe even 17 with the new Brisbane team). It's only common sense they would both get bigger offers than Fifita received. Their managers would also be rubbing their hands together encouraging their players to sign for more $$$ $ (bigger commission for them) UNLESS there was an even bigger FINANCIAL reward from the Roosters behind closed doors now or in future. Wake up !