Jackson is the answer @ 13

[EB18]

Have Jackson at lock with two hard running back rowers.

We already have RFM so we need to use Eastwoods money to try and get someone.

Papalii stands out, offer Tevita Pangai the leagues club.

We could even consider Josh Morris ay.

Our pack is fine theres no need to send any more money on it. I think our bench is fine also. I break it down some may agree some may not. Using the following bench rotation and mins played will stop our 2nd half fade outs plus all the following players that I will name have big motors so we can play at high intensity all game its also will balanced.

Starting pack.
8. Woods 45mins
9.JMK 55mins
10. Klemmer 47mins
11. Martin 80mins
12. RFM 67mins
13. Jackson 60mins

Bench
14. Lichaa 25mins 1 stint will have 2 finish the game.
15. Tolman 35mins 1 stint
16. Danny.F 33mins 1 stint
17. Elliott 33mins 2 stints. 1 stint for 20 mins at lock for Jackson then 13mins on egde for either RFM or martin depending on who is more fatigued.

Thats 8 interchanges. 3 to be used in the 1st half to replace our middle forwards.
5 in 2nd half. 3 again to put our starting middles back on. 1 to replace our hooker. 1 to replace which ever 1 of our egde forwards is more fatigued.

 

[Dogna88]

In 2017,JJ wasn't selected or didn't play lock,Tyson Frizell did.
That's why during the World Cup selections,JJ was being compared and missed out to Cordner,Graham,Kaufusi or Gillett and not Trbojevic,Frizell or McGuire.
NSW since 2013,have always lined up with 2 props and a ball playing prop as lock,Gallen owned that position for years.

The style Laurie Daley used for NSW in both attack and defense did not have 2 distinct edges like we are used to in club games.
The style in defense uses a flat high right,a streched V and a traditional left edge.
Reason for this style is to push Queensland back inside at 4th man (the right 2nd row),to keep the middle very tight.3rd and 2nd man rush up beyond the 2nd rower,in case ball is pushed out,with wing for cover.The 5th man in (the lock),at the high point of the V must be strong enough to be able to achieve ball and all tackles and stop 2nd phase play.
You need your best mobile grass cutter at 4th man do this job effectively and that's why JJ got selected in that position for NSW.
With this style,NSW limited Queensland in using their fullback and 5/8 in exposing the area between right 2nd row and center.It also reduced the ability of their interchangeable spine to stretch the middle and attack the outside area of the props.
Trying to hold 1 line and slide across field is suicide against a talented fast interchangeable spine,when any of the 4 can run up beyond their forwards and up to the advantage line.It would have been over after game 2.

In attack,the hooker joins the halves,the lock and right prop move one out,with the right 2nd row lining up instead of the right prop.
This style uses the wing,center,lock and prop to run the ball up from inside NSW quarter and the lock,right prop,right 2nd row and left prop to bombard the right edge (Queensland's left),in the middle second.Each forward should only carry the ball once per set to reduce fatigue.
Reason is to condense the defense towards the right and more importantly loosen the middle.Once this is achieved,the halves will have no problem finding gaps for themselves or put the fullback or left prop through.By counting numbers,they can decide to spread the ball to the left edge on the 5th or 6th tackle.This is why Pearce and Maloney ran through gaps and scored 3 tries between them.Fafita and Tedesco both had a huge game 1 with both scoring a running try through the guts.
With this style in 2017 NSW scored 5 tries in the middle,3 on the left and only 1 on the right from a cross kick.

Brad Fittler's coached teams,NSW-City and Lebanon have played with running line breaking edge 2nd rowers and an old school lock.
NSW has numerous on form,very good,line breaking,running 2nd rowers and with De Belin on fire and permanently playing lock,it's going to be very hard for JJ to get selected in either position for SOO this year.
JJ is not an impact attacker,but does have a decent all round attack,good hands and is an energetic decoy and chaser.Origin is tailor made for JJ because of his 'never say die' battler attitude.If his form improves,his experience and reliability in defense might earn him a spot in the NSW squad for 2018.

I think you too analytical for the kennel.

To us. 13 = lock... not a front row prop or edge 2nd row = lock.

But funny you mention that, i spoke to an A-grade coach, played and coach combined for 40 years... whenever i say "Jackson killed it at lock in origin" he always laughs and says Jackson didnt play lock.... you have semi explain why he dismisses me.

Maybe Pay is changing our defensive structures to match that of 2017 NSW Origin

 

[Deathspell]

What’s wrong with our edge defence? We seem to be caught out short every single time.

Communication and coordination for starters.
Foran stays flat,Hoppa sometimes back peddles,other times rushes up and Montoya back peddles,comes inside too close to Hoppa and a lot of times is caught in two minds.
It's a mess and because Foran and Hoppa are both screwing it up,it's hard to make either of them senior.

Mbye still learning how to play fullback doesn't help.He's not directing the slide properly or setting the defense right.He's terrible at anticipating the opposite fullback's injection into the threequarters.It's the hardest play and last aspect that a fullback learns,even Tedesco hasn't got it perfected yet,some of East's defensive mishaps is a testament to that.

Teams run their big 2nd rowers at the halves and Foran has trouble defending against them.He get's fended easily,but he's pretty effective when he tackles very low.
Hoppa is not a good 1 on 1 front on defender and tackles from the side,against large centers,100kg plus that's suicide.He's good when assisting the forwards in tying down the ball carrier,tackling as 2nd or 3rd man in.He has the ability to get under the ball or hold the ball carrier up when over the line.
He's not experienced in the centers and except for a season or so at the Bulldogs and a few games at Manly,playing at fullback,he's played mainly on the wing.
Montoya in the last 6 games has been trying to intercept the ball like Ado Carr does.When he misses,he leaves the defense 1 man short.He's got plenty of heart and does make some decent 1 on 1 hits.His trapping of his opposite wing close to the touch line is hit and miss.B.Morris,for example is a master at it.

To compound the problem,until that Brisbane game,Woods wasn't marking his opposite prop all the time.That forced the lock or sometimes the hooker to tackle Wood's man,which left the middle right short.When exploited by a running fullback or 5/8,an undefendable overlap is created out wide.

There are more problems,but these mistakes are repeated often.

 

[Deathspell]

He played lock in 2017 origin go watch the games kiddo

I know it looks like that on the field but NSW didn't play with 2 edges,I already explained it.Don't look at it as if it's an NRL game.
Gould even wrote about it and criticized it in numerous articles.JJ task was to turn the defense back in and Fritzell was to take ball carrier.In attack NSW attacked the right with lock + prop both moved 1 out and 2nd row took props place,that's why you see JJ further in,to drag the defense to the right.
You need to look at the style Daley played,that's why not 1 try was run on the right except a cross kick and they punched with Fifita on the left.Queensland countered it in origin 2 by using mobility,they changed Myles and Papali for Cooper and Wallace and interchanged with Hess and Papali for impact and Glasby to continuously plug the left,that's what killed Fafita.

 

[Deathspell]

I think you too analytical for the kennel.

To us. 13 = lock... not a front row prop or edge 2nd row = lock.

But funny you mention that, i spoke to an A-grade coach, played and coach combined for 40 years... whenever i say "Jackson killed it at lock in origin" he always laughs and says Jackson didnt play lock.... you have semi explain why he dismisses me.

Maybe Pay is changing our defensive structures to match that of 2017 NSW Origin

He was 12 anyway not 13 when he got man of the match in origin 2.Why do you think they didn't pick him for World Cup,because they lined him up vs Cordner,Graham,Kaufusi and Gillett.Find copies of newspapers at the time and read them.

 

[Deathspell]

Hahahaha he did play lock thats a fact. Jackson was named in the number 11 or 12 jersey but 100% played at lock not on the egde.

Bro I never said he played on the edge.What's so hard to understand,there was no right edge.I've explained this 4-5 times now,Daley didn't play right side like an edge we are used to in the NRL.He used,lock and prop to punch on the right,2rd row was 3rd carry,once they drag the defense they spread it left for halves,Tedesco and Fifita to do all the damage.That's why 5 tries were scored in the middle 3 on left and 1 from cross kick on the right.In defense JJ turned Queensland back inside towards the middle.Storm and Souths now also use this play,but the difference is they don't use it all game.You punch an edge hard with 3 forwards then spread it fast using all your spine to middle to the only attacking edge.

 

[bringitontm]

Maybe, maybe not.

Pay could do everything you've said for the past few months and we would still lose most of our games... Then what?
Whilst I don't like all his team selections, what I do like about him is he is identifying issues early enough and addressing them.
At the moment dogs have a shit sandwich and Dean Pay is trying to make it less soggy.

 

[Deathspell]

Pay could do everything you've said for the past few months and we would still lose most of our games... Then what?
Whilst I don't like all his team selections, what I do like about him is he is identifying issues early enough and addressing them.
At the moment dogs have a shit sandwich and Dean Pay is trying to make it less soggy.

I think that shit sandwich bro needs undoing,the bread toasted very crispy to get rid of Des's paw prints,re-buttered and re-made slowly.A shit box will remain a shit box even after a car wash.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

In 2017,JJ wasn't selected or didn't play lock,Tyson Frizell did.
That's why during the World Cup selections,JJ was being compared and missed out to Cordner,Graham,Kaufusi or Gillett and not Trbojevic,Frizell or McGuire.
NSW since 2013,have always lined up with 2 props and a ball playing prop as lock,Gallen owned that position for years.

The style Laurie Daley used for NSW in both attack and defense did not have 2 distinct edges like we are used to in club games.
The style in defense uses a flat high right,a streched V and a traditional left edge.
Reason for this style is to push Queensland back inside at 4th man (the right 2nd row),to keep the middle very tight.3rd and 2nd man rush up beyond the 2nd rower,in case ball is pushed out,with wing for cover.The 5th man in (the lock),at the high point of the V must be strong enough to be able to achieve ball and all tackles and stop 2nd phase play.
You need your best mobile grass cutter at 4th man do this job effectively and that's why JJ got selected in that position for NSW.
With this style,NSW limited Queensland in using their fullback and 5/8 in exposing the area between right 2nd row and center.It also reduced the ability of their interchangeable spine to stretch the middle and attack the outside area of the props.
Trying to hold 1 line and slide across field is suicide against a talented fast interchangeable spine,when any of the 4 can run up beyond their forwards and up to the advantage line.It would have been over after game 2.

In attack,the hooker joins the halves,the lock and right prop move one out,with the right 2nd row lining up instead of the right prop.
This style uses the wing,center,lock and prop to run the ball up from inside NSW quarter and the lock,right prop,right 2nd row and left prop to bombard the right edge (Queensland's left),in the middle second.Each forward should only carry the ball once per set to reduce fatigue.
Reason is to condense the defense towards the right and more importantly loosen the middle.Once this is achieved,the halves will have no problem finding gaps for themselves or put the fullback or left prop through.By counting numbers,they can decide to spread the ball to the left edge on the 5th or 6th tackle.This is why Pearce and Maloney ran through gaps and scored 3 tries between them.Fafita and Tedesco both had a huge game 1 with both scoring a running try through the guts.
With this style in 2017 NSW scored 5 tries in the middle,3 on the left and only 1 on the right from a cross kick.

Brad Fittler's coached teams,NSW-City and Lebanon have played with running line breaking edge 2nd rowers and an old school lock.
NSW has numerous on form,very good,line breaking,running 2nd rowers and with De Belin on fire and permanently playing lock,it's going to be very hard for JJ to get selected in either position for SOO this year.
JJ is not an impact attacker,but does have a decent all round attack,good hands and is an energetic decoy and chaser.Origin is tailor made for JJ because of his 'never say die' battler attitude.If his form improves,his experience and reliability in defense might earn him a spot in the NSW squad for 2018.

Bloody hell, this is like the "Salah is an inside forward not winger" debate all over again haha.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Pay could do everything you've said for the past few months and we would still lose most of our games... Then what?
Whilst I don't like all his team selections, what I do like about him is he is identifying issues early enough and addressing them.
At the moment dogs have a shit sandwich and Dean Pay is trying to make it less soggy.

It's not about winning or losing, it's about what we're doing on field and the decisions Pay is making.

I have asked this multiple times yet no one can seem to give me a straight answer...What is Pay actually doing well that deserves praise? What are the positives? All i see is a bunch of wishful thinking from people and excuses.

 

[Deathspell]

Our pack is fine theres no need to send any more money on it. I think our bench is fine also. I break it down some may agree some may not. Using the following bench rotation and mins played will stop our 2nd half fade outs plus all the following players that I will name have big motors so we can play at high intensity all game its also will balanced.

Starting pack.
8. Woods 45mins
9.JMK 55mins
10. Klemmer 47mins
11. Martin 80mins
12. RFM 67mins
13. Jackson 60mins

Bench
14. Lichaa 25mins 1 stint will have 2 finish the game.
15. Tolman 35mins 1 stint
16. Danny.F 33mins 1 stint
17. Elliott 33mins 2 stints. 1 stint for 20 mins at lock for Jackson then 13mins on egde for either RFM or martin depending on who is more fatigued.

Thats 8 interchanges. 3 to be used in the 1st half to replace our middle forwards.
5 in 2nd half. 3 again to put our starting middles back on. 1 to replace our hooker. 1 to replace which ever 1 of our egde forwards is more fatigued.

We need to throw our cash at the backline,especially our three quarters.It's old,slow and ordinary.
If the twins don't get resigned and we don't replace them with some quality players,we will have the worst bacline in the comp by a country mile.
The $1.5million the twins are on should get us some decent players.

 

[Deathspell]

Bloody hell, this is like the "Salah is an inside forward not winger" debate all over again haha.

That's a good debate haha,you can ask the same question about Ronaldo,or is Messi a midfielder or a forward?
When you think about it,players play to a system,so they could be anything,anytime.I saw Ramos,the Real Madrid center back play as an emergency center forward against Bayern last week.
One thing for sure Salah is a class player,wherever he plays in that forward line.
I bet Roma were spewing for letting him go so cheap.
He's worth a lot more then Coutinho and he sold for an initial £105 million transfer fee, which rises to £142 million after various clauses are met.