1967
Kennel Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2020
- Messages
- 3,292
- Reaction score
- 7,158
Yes it’s a long one, if you’re not interested scroll on !
Question for all fellow Bulldogs fans.
Have we as a club and fans expected to much from these young kids, and to soon.
For example, Nick Meaney at times showed some promise, but he wasn’t that instant rockstar FB, so the club allowed him to go sign with the Storm at what, 22/23 years of age, and for next to nothing, he’s now 25 and seems to have matured into a good 1st grade fullback, played a massive part in getting the Storm home the other night, Bellamy saw his potential, he’s shown him trust, he’s been patient with him, and both have put in the work to make it happen.
Meaney’s 2023 stats
7 games
7 try’s
3 try assists
17 tackle breaks
5 line breaks
158 Av run metres
80.5% tackle efficiency
At just 25, and only 95 games in, he’s just getting started, he still has years to improve his game and mature as a rugby league player, what type of fullback will he be when he’s 27/29 and then into his early 30’s?
Meanwhile, we’ve chopped and changed between Corey Allan, Matt Dufty, currently Perham, and now we’ve gone out and bought a centre to play FB on $850k a year.
The question I’m asking here is, has the club and us fans been guilty of expecting these kids to carve up straight away, and when they haven’t have we just flicked them aside looking for someone who can. Because we certainly haven’t taken the patience & trust Bellamy/Bennett type approach.
If we have been guilty of that in the past, has the club now changed their ways under Gould & Ciraldo, are they looking at players now for the long term, are they prepared to put in the work with them on their short comings, improve them on an individual level, are they now focused on giving players time and letting them mature into their role, do they have the patience to allow them to become the seasoned 1st graders we need them to become over a period of time.
I remember hearing Cooper Cronk say he was never a 7, when they tried to make him a 7 he was bloody dreadful, couldn’t kick a ball or organise a team around the park to save his life, Bellamy and coaches persisted with him, kept working with him, teaching him what he was doing wrong and what he needed to work on, they bought in specialists to work with him, Cronk put in countless hours and hours of hard work, and we all know the results all that hard work yielded.
The point is even thought he wasn’t a great 7, he wasn’t an elite, they picked their man and they stuck with him until he was the player they needed him to be.
Brings me to young Flanagan, we all know what his short comings were, … legitimate question here without the usual Flanagan bashing or trolling …. how much individual work was being put in to improve his short comings, ……… I’m up on the GC so I don’t get to training sessions, did the club put in hours and hours of individual training with him over his 3 year contract, were they working with him on his running game, kicking, organising, vision, passing, because that’s the coaching teams job to be doing that, did Flanagan put in hours and hours practising what he was being taught. If they did and it wasn’t working, did they try bringing in a specialist half’s coach, how much individual work was put into Flanagan to improve him as our long term 7, or was it all team sessions and the coaches just expected him to get better within a team training environment, did our coaches trust him to play expansive and to his strengths, or was he told to play the way they wanted him to play.
I remember Cleary when he was younger, he had promise but he was not a good 7 at all, he had years of shockers, they’ve had to build him into a great 7, they’ve persisted with him, put in the work, he put in the work, they’ve trusted him to play his own brand of footy, and they’ve allowed him to grow and mature into the role, and the club has reaped the rewards for that work & patience in a big way.
I’ve often wondered if JT would have become the player he became if he’d stayed, the cowboys allowed him to play his own brand of footy, roam all over the park, play unstructured eyes up expansive footy, would we have allowed that style of play or shackled him into the role we wanted him to play?
I don’t remember us having a good half’s pairing since Hodgkinson & Reynolds & they weren’t great, and here we are still struggling with this same F***** half’s problem, how many half’s have we been through since those two?
I feel we’ve been guilty of spending to much time looking for an instant superstar half’s pairing fix, instead of building one, working on one, improving one, and creating our own superstars over time.
Everyone is excited about Karl Oloapu, we’d love to see him come out and carve up in the 7 or 6 role for us, but the reality is he’s 18, in 1st grade at his age he’s bound to have a lot more downs than ups early on in his career, if you look at the really good 6’s & 7’s it’s taken years for them to learn and mature into those roles, I’m hoping when Gus says they’re playing the long game with KO that he means they’re willing to put in the hours and years it’ll take to turn him into an elite player, I hope we’re willing to bring in a specialist half’s coach for him, because if everyone’s looking for instant success, it’s not going to happen, even JT took years to start really playing top level footy.
We are not climbing back to the powerhouse club we’ve always been until we fix this 6 & 7 problem … and I can’t see us buying our way out of it, we need to build it, who ever they choose they have to pick and stick to the end, once they’ve made the decision they have to understand both half’s are not going to instantly be elite, they’re going to have short comings, it’s all about the work both party’s are willing to put in to eliminate those short comings until they mature into the roles and eventually become elite, coaches will also need to understand they wont be able to force these players to play their way, they’ll have to trust them and give them a license to play expansive, unleash their skills and their strengths.
There’s a lot to be said for the way Potter had the team playing last year, he removed the shackles and allowed them to play expansive eyes up footy, and it was exciting footy, it’s just his defence was shit, Potters expansive eyes up attack and Ciraldo’s defensive structures should be a good balance, personally for those defensive reasons, I feel they’ve gone back to being a bit to structured again, free up the game breakers.
You probably know by now my choice for our future half’s pairing is Averillo 6 - Burton 7 … KO on the bench when we play a bit easier opposition as an X factor player, Reynolds on the bench against tougher opposition, and then KO coming off the bench all next season, develop KO into a massive X factor player of the bench while he’s young.
As we had with Meaney, I believe we already have the talent we need inside the club, it just needs patience, nurturing, trust, and hard work.
Averillo’s 22, he’s slowly maturing into a seasoned 1st grader having now played 62 games, he has speed to burn, a great step, good hands and a good passing game … he has the skills a 6 needs.
Short comings are time in the one position, defence and contact, put him in the position, pick & stick and work hard on those points.
Burton’s 23, he’s also just maturing into a seasoned 1st grader having played 64 games … he has talent to burn, a massive boot, great running game … short falls are vision, organisation and passing, get him some one on one specialised coaching and turn him into an elite 7, he has it within him.
If the club is willing to put in a lot of individual work with these blokes on their short comings, and those two are willing to work their asses off, by the time they’re both 24/25/26 they can be elite in those positions, and we can have a great half’s pairing for years to come.
KO can continue playing of the bench as X factor & receive specialist training in the 6, 7 & 13 role eventually slotting in to what ever position suits him best.
Bringing in a specialist half’s coach will help speed up the process and their success, but overall the coaches need to pick stick be patient trust and let them mature into those roles.
9 & 1 are sorted, we have the talent for 6 & 7 in house … if they do go with Averillo Burton and Oloapu .. I feel the main thing is to copy Bellamy’s method, structure your main team, but not your spine, let your spine roam, give your spine the license to play eyes up unstructured footy, let them have the responsibility of playing their own style of footy and utilise their strengths, that’s what makes those types of players dangerous and top level threats, they’re unstructured, opposition players don’t know what they’re going to do next.
Ciraldo’s here for 5 years, this should be his 5 year plan for our half’s, strengthen our forward pack with some tougher more powerful body’s & we’ll be competing with top 4 teams by 2025/2026 …
Jmo
Question for all fellow Bulldogs fans.
Have we as a club and fans expected to much from these young kids, and to soon.
For example, Nick Meaney at times showed some promise, but he wasn’t that instant rockstar FB, so the club allowed him to go sign with the Storm at what, 22/23 years of age, and for next to nothing, he’s now 25 and seems to have matured into a good 1st grade fullback, played a massive part in getting the Storm home the other night, Bellamy saw his potential, he’s shown him trust, he’s been patient with him, and both have put in the work to make it happen.
Meaney’s 2023 stats
7 games
7 try’s
3 try assists
17 tackle breaks
5 line breaks
158 Av run metres
80.5% tackle efficiency
At just 25, and only 95 games in, he’s just getting started, he still has years to improve his game and mature as a rugby league player, what type of fullback will he be when he’s 27/29 and then into his early 30’s?
Meanwhile, we’ve chopped and changed between Corey Allan, Matt Dufty, currently Perham, and now we’ve gone out and bought a centre to play FB on $850k a year.
The question I’m asking here is, has the club and us fans been guilty of expecting these kids to carve up straight away, and when they haven’t have we just flicked them aside looking for someone who can. Because we certainly haven’t taken the patience & trust Bellamy/Bennett type approach.
If we have been guilty of that in the past, has the club now changed their ways under Gould & Ciraldo, are they looking at players now for the long term, are they prepared to put in the work with them on their short comings, improve them on an individual level, are they now focused on giving players time and letting them mature into their role, do they have the patience to allow them to become the seasoned 1st graders we need them to become over a period of time.
I remember hearing Cooper Cronk say he was never a 7, when they tried to make him a 7 he was bloody dreadful, couldn’t kick a ball or organise a team around the park to save his life, Bellamy and coaches persisted with him, kept working with him, teaching him what he was doing wrong and what he needed to work on, they bought in specialists to work with him, Cronk put in countless hours and hours of hard work, and we all know the results all that hard work yielded.
The point is even thought he wasn’t a great 7, he wasn’t an elite, they picked their man and they stuck with him until he was the player they needed him to be.
Brings me to young Flanagan, we all know what his short comings were, … legitimate question here without the usual Flanagan bashing or trolling …. how much individual work was being put in to improve his short comings, ……… I’m up on the GC so I don’t get to training sessions, did the club put in hours and hours of individual training with him over his 3 year contract, were they working with him on his running game, kicking, organising, vision, passing, because that’s the coaching teams job to be doing that, did Flanagan put in hours and hours practising what he was being taught. If they did and it wasn’t working, did they try bringing in a specialist half’s coach, how much individual work was put into Flanagan to improve him as our long term 7, or was it all team sessions and the coaches just expected him to get better within a team training environment, did our coaches trust him to play expansive and to his strengths, or was he told to play the way they wanted him to play.
I remember Cleary when he was younger, he had promise but he was not a good 7 at all, he had years of shockers, they’ve had to build him into a great 7, they’ve persisted with him, put in the work, he put in the work, they’ve trusted him to play his own brand of footy, and they’ve allowed him to grow and mature into the role, and the club has reaped the rewards for that work & patience in a big way.
I’ve often wondered if JT would have become the player he became if he’d stayed, the cowboys allowed him to play his own brand of footy, roam all over the park, play unstructured eyes up expansive footy, would we have allowed that style of play or shackled him into the role we wanted him to play?
I don’t remember us having a good half’s pairing since Hodgkinson & Reynolds & they weren’t great, and here we are still struggling with this same F***** half’s problem, how many half’s have we been through since those two?
I feel we’ve been guilty of spending to much time looking for an instant superstar half’s pairing fix, instead of building one, working on one, improving one, and creating our own superstars over time.
Everyone is excited about Karl Oloapu, we’d love to see him come out and carve up in the 7 or 6 role for us, but the reality is he’s 18, in 1st grade at his age he’s bound to have a lot more downs than ups early on in his career, if you look at the really good 6’s & 7’s it’s taken years for them to learn and mature into those roles, I’m hoping when Gus says they’re playing the long game with KO that he means they’re willing to put in the hours and years it’ll take to turn him into an elite player, I hope we’re willing to bring in a specialist half’s coach for him, because if everyone’s looking for instant success, it’s not going to happen, even JT took years to start really playing top level footy.
We are not climbing back to the powerhouse club we’ve always been until we fix this 6 & 7 problem … and I can’t see us buying our way out of it, we need to build it, who ever they choose they have to pick and stick to the end, once they’ve made the decision they have to understand both half’s are not going to instantly be elite, they’re going to have short comings, it’s all about the work both party’s are willing to put in to eliminate those short comings until they mature into the roles and eventually become elite, coaches will also need to understand they wont be able to force these players to play their way, they’ll have to trust them and give them a license to play expansive, unleash their skills and their strengths.
There’s a lot to be said for the way Potter had the team playing last year, he removed the shackles and allowed them to play expansive eyes up footy, and it was exciting footy, it’s just his defence was shit, Potters expansive eyes up attack and Ciraldo’s defensive structures should be a good balance, personally for those defensive reasons, I feel they’ve gone back to being a bit to structured again, free up the game breakers.
You probably know by now my choice for our future half’s pairing is Averillo 6 - Burton 7 … KO on the bench when we play a bit easier opposition as an X factor player, Reynolds on the bench against tougher opposition, and then KO coming off the bench all next season, develop KO into a massive X factor player of the bench while he’s young.
As we had with Meaney, I believe we already have the talent we need inside the club, it just needs patience, nurturing, trust, and hard work.
Averillo’s 22, he’s slowly maturing into a seasoned 1st grader having now played 62 games, he has speed to burn, a great step, good hands and a good passing game … he has the skills a 6 needs.
Short comings are time in the one position, defence and contact, put him in the position, pick & stick and work hard on those points.
Burton’s 23, he’s also just maturing into a seasoned 1st grader having played 64 games … he has talent to burn, a massive boot, great running game … short falls are vision, organisation and passing, get him some one on one specialised coaching and turn him into an elite 7, he has it within him.
If the club is willing to put in a lot of individual work with these blokes on their short comings, and those two are willing to work their asses off, by the time they’re both 24/25/26 they can be elite in those positions, and we can have a great half’s pairing for years to come.
KO can continue playing of the bench as X factor & receive specialist training in the 6, 7 & 13 role eventually slotting in to what ever position suits him best.
Bringing in a specialist half’s coach will help speed up the process and their success, but overall the coaches need to pick stick be patient trust and let them mature into those roles.
9 & 1 are sorted, we have the talent for 6 & 7 in house … if they do go with Averillo Burton and Oloapu .. I feel the main thing is to copy Bellamy’s method, structure your main team, but not your spine, let your spine roam, give your spine the license to play eyes up unstructured footy, let them have the responsibility of playing their own style of footy and utilise their strengths, that’s what makes those types of players dangerous and top level threats, they’re unstructured, opposition players don’t know what they’re going to do next.
Ciraldo’s here for 5 years, this should be his 5 year plan for our half’s, strengthen our forward pack with some tougher more powerful body’s & we’ll be competing with top 4 teams by 2025/2026 …
Jmo
Last edited:
