If SBW or Mason had played out their career with us could they have become Imortals.

[silva]

He was pretty good man, he carried the Knights and Blues for many years, but was too injury towards the end of his career. The fact that in 2005, betting odds were on hold pending him being under and injury cloud, was quite amazing.

Cooper Cronk shits all over him

 

[Bob dog]

Probably not, they needed each other as well as the other fifteen.
Mason is going to bring back the Harlem globe trotters and magnet ball passing.

 

[Wahesh]

Cooper Cronk shits all over him

The difference is Cronk had an illegally assembled team of superstars around him, whereas Johns didn't - except when it came to Origin.

 

[Cappuccino]

Unpopular opinion - Mason would have been better than Sonny

The difference is Cronk had an illegally assembled team of superstars around him, whereas Johns didn't - except when it came to Origin.

• In 2000, the Newcastle Knights were fined $158,800 but did not have any points deducted after club officials revealed that they had exceeded the salary cap by a total of $454,100 and failed to disclose third-party payments during the 1998 and 1999 season
  • The Newcastle Knights were fined $85,000 in 2002 but did not have any points deducted after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $170,000 during the season.

A breach is a breach.

170k when the cap was 3.2m
and no idea what the cap was in 98 and 99

all years JOHNS played

 

[Alan79]

He was pretty good man, he carried the Knights and Blues for many years, but was too injury towards the end of his career. The fact that in 2005, betting odds were on hold pending him being under and injury cloud, was quite amazing.

Was very good early on IMO, lost it badly by the mid point of his career, but still had that huge reputation. Was still decent but not the game breaker he was in the early stages of his career.

 

[silva]

John had about 10 internationals in the Newcastle team that won in 2001

 

[silva]

Johns wasn’t very good at all compared to the greats. He was just very marketable. Terry lamb was a much better player

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Actually, why are we even asking this??

Let’s be real. The truth is bloody obvious and you should ALL realise this. The Bulldogs are not a favourable club. They will never acknowledge a Bulldog as an immortal. If Thurston becomes one it’ll be in spite of his Junior career with us.

We are not media “guys”. We never will be.

It’s a rubbish accolade nowadays anyway.

If those clowns in charge of the "immortals" didn't put Mortimer in that category then no Bulldog ever will. It's the most obvious omission.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Johns wasn’t very good at all compared to the greats. He was just very marketable. Terry lamb was a much better player

Mortimer runs rings around Johns. As you stated previously Johns had 10 internationals in his side and only won 1.5GF. Mortimer won 4 with less internationals in his team.

 

[TwinTurbo]

If those clowns in charge of the "immortals" didn't put Mortimer in that category then no Bulldog ever will. It's the most obvious omission.

Maybe someone on twitter will ask Gould why no Mortimer, no Folkes, no Lamb, no Bulldogs players ever even mentioned.

Always a Bulldog

 

[Bazildog]

Maybe someone on twitter will ask Gould why no Mortimer, no Folkes, no Lamb, no Bulldogs players ever even mentioned.

Always a Bulldog

To be fair the same could be said about Peter Sterling, Ron Coote, Darren Lockyer, Brad Fittler, Graham Eadie, Les Johns, Bob McCarthy, Ray Price, Cliff Lyons, Glen Lazarus, and probabaly another couple of dozen from the past before we even start talking about the likes of Thurston, Smith etc from the modern era.

I still cant get my head around John's becoming the 8th in front of Meninga..

 

[Kelpie03]

Unpopular opinion - Mason would have been better than Sonny

• In 2000, the Newcastle Knights were fined $158,800 but did not have any points deducted after club officials revealed that they had exceeded the salary cap by a total of $454,100 and failed to disclose third-party payments during the 1998 and 1999 season
  • The Newcastle Knights were fined $85,000 in 2002 but did not have any points deducted after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $170,000 during the season.

A breach is a breach.

170k when the cap was 3.2m
and no idea what the cap was in 98 and 99

all years JOHNS played

If the Knights cheated the cap by $450.000 in any one year I think it was more than what our club cheated in the 2002 year.
Btw I recall that to become cap complient after the 2002 scandle, our club arranged for the players with their permission to reduce eanh players salary by 8% which meant that the total over the cap payment would have been around $300.000.

 

[Kelpie03]

Was very good early on IMO, lost it badly by the mid point of his career, but still had that huge reputation. Was still decent but not the game breaker he was in the early stages of his career.

I had a strong feeling that drugs helped him quite a bit at least early in his career, Judging by comments from his brother It was obvious after he retired that he was indulging in drugs.

 

[Alan79]

I had a strong feeling that drugs helped him quite a bit at least early in his career, Judging by comments from his brother It was obvious after he retired that he was indulging in drugs.

I've heard from a lot of sources that he frequently used party drugs at least through the latter stages of his career. I can't say that I've seen comments on him using performance enhancing drugs.

 

[TwinTurbo]

To be fair the same could be said about Peter Sterling, Ron Coote, Darren Lockyer, Brad Fittler, Graham Eadie, Les Johns, Bob McCarthy, Ray Price, Cliff Lyons, Glen Lazarus, and probabaly another couple of dozen from the past before we even start talking about the likes of Thurston, Smith etc from the modern era.

I still cant get my head around John's becoming the 8th in front of Meninga..

That's the problem isn't it, what exactly is the measure for an "Immortal"? Premierships, SOO, Kangaroos, coaching, or as the NRL vaguely puts it "to have changed the game or had an impact beyond his career". Who else qualifies?

I don't think most of those that you listed "changed the game/had an external impact", Thurston, like Beetson, almost definitely meets the criteria. McCarthy certainly changed the way 2nd rowers play the game, even up to today. Think of all the good 2nd rowers and they are all basically McCarthy clones (from Clyde to Kikau). I think Mortimer qualifies on a number of grounds, take 1, cover defending, traditionally a lock's role, Raper set that mold, until Mortimer came along. I think we can safely put down at least 2 premierships to his cover defence. Take 2, the legendary kick and chase, no one perfected it like Mortimer. In comparison Sterling was "cookie cutter" half back, nothing "new" in his game.

Talking about teams, St George have 5 with 4 of those from the same era, when they had the money to have an almost professional team playing against other teams that were mostly all amateurs/part time footballers. Chooks have 3, Souths 2 and Newcastle, Canbra and Brisbane 1 each. (Yes, I know some of them played for multiple teams but the most games, prime of their career, et).

Look at who had the influence with the NRL and the media, for example St George had Frank Facer, maybe that's the best measure of immortals, who pushed their case the most. In our corner, Peter Moore who was not well liked at RL headquarters and now Gould that's interesting.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Bazildog]

That's the problem isn't it, what exactly is the measure for an "Immortal"? Premierships, SOO, Kangaroos, coaching, or as the NRL vaguely puts it "to have changed the game or had an impact beyond his career". Who else qualifies?

I don't think most of those that you listed "changed the game/had an external impact", Thurston, like Beetson, almost definitely meets the criteria. McCarthy certainly changed the way 2nd rowers play the game, even up to today. Think of all the good 2nd rowers and they are all basically McCarthy clones (from Clyde to Kikau). I think Mortimer qualifies on a number of grounds, take 1, cover defending, traditionally a lock's role, Raper set that mold, until Mortimer came along. I think we can safely put down at least 2 premierships to his cover defence. Take 2, the legendary kick and chase, no one perfected it like Mortimer. In comparison Sterling was "cookie cutter" half back, nothing "new" in his game.

Talking about teams, St George have 5 with 4 of those from the same era, when they had the money to have an almost professional team playing against other teams that were mostly all amateurs/part time footballers. Chooks have 3, Souths 2 and Newcastle, Canbra and Brisbane 1 each. (Yes, I know some of them played for multiple teams but the most games, prime of their career, et).

Look at who had the influence with the NRL and the media, for example St George had Frank Facer, maybe that's the best measure of immortals, who pushed their case the most. In our corner, Peter Moore who was not well liked at RL headquarters and now Gould that's interesting.


Always a Bulldog

Yeah, thats pretty much what I meant as well. I think its more the impact they had on the game overall because from a career propective Mals achievment list as captain at club, state, and Australian level, multiple premierships, SOO series, Kangaroo tours etc etc in volume is way greater than say Andrew Johns in volume.

Turvey is the only player from our club that I think should be serously talked about as an imortal but like we both said, selection is pretty selective and tough..

 

[Malla]

SBW yes

But who cares about being an immortal, its a stupid tag. Joey is the 8th immortal - drug addict dog of a ****

 

[Moedogg]

I remember Johns coming back from Injury and taking it to a red hot broncos side at suncorp. Without John's, Knights were bottom 8, with him in the side they could beat on any top four team.

 

[Turvey Chip and Chase]

Cooper Cronk shits all over him

Not even on Joey’s worst day.

Cronk had the greatest ever dummy have giving him good ball and probably the greatest fullback running off him and chasing his kicks (basically pointing where he wanted it). Then went to a club with unlimited funds and had Teddy, Keary, Latrell, Manu to name a few.

Cronk was a very good player. Could never lace Johns’s boots though. And I’m no fan of Joey as a person.

 

[Turvey Chip and Chase]

Mortimer did things no half back before him ever did. He changed that position.