Give Flanagan a chance?

[KiwiDog7]

Baz really compared him to Cleary before the season started

Fast forward to October

One got dropped in the worst team in the league

The other won a championship and Clive Churchill to go with his Dally M halfback of the year

Yup, I see the similarities

 

[Mozzie]

The sad fact regarding Flano is that he was out played by Lewis and everybody seems to agree that Lewis is no halve back. In fact Lewis out played our other other options as well which to me says we have a real issue in that position. BBO might come good but time tell.

 

[Sandra's Bollocks]

To add to the above points, he's also afraid to take on the line and sacrifice a hit or 2 in order to create opportunities. We all joked about Foran for being made of glass, but at least he put his body on the line and led our attack.

 

[TwinTurbo]

He will need to ‘re invent’ his game. At the roosters with Keary being the main ball player Kyles role was to pass and kick to areas and follow the structure. With the rule changes ‘eyes up’ footy and a half who can bend the line and put defenders in two minds play well.
Defences knew Flanagan doesn’t run the ball so easily adjusted plus the fact he didn’t have a fend or footwork made it easy for defences
He will need to work very hard in reserve grade to be a first grade halfback again
Sadly it’s what kids are taught these days
Stay on one side of the field and do not deviate from the game plan and ensure the team gets to position ‘x’ at end of the set

Did Cronulla only play that way when SFlanagan was coaching them, I don't think so.

KFlanagan has been "coached" by SFlanagan since he was old enough to hold a football, does anyone really think that he would teach his son differently to what he coached his teams, I don't think so.

I have seen KFlanagan play since he was in high school and displayed many many times his ability to play ad hoc football, has he forgotten how do that, I don't think so.

Based on history I believed he would do well for us, not a superstar and that I suspect is the reason why many wear the hate glasses when watching him play. The expectations placed on him by many were simply too high, the fact is he is a couple of years under the age when most (not all) halves raise they game. Exhibit A, Jerome Hughes, did virtually nothing until he was 25, was a back up to the back up until last year. Exhibit B, Jamal Fogarty, he's 27m, a late bloomer, played 2 games for the Titans in 2017, none in 2018, none in 2019 and then last year displayed enough to play 18 games and then 21 games this year.

Maybe he will find the form that he has displayed all through his career when he has a decent set of forwards to lay the foundations, something all halves need. Maybe he won't, but I think it's a bit premature to completely write him off, and he is not the only player that we have in similar situations.

Always a Bulldog

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Baz really compared him to Cleary before the season started

Fast forward to October

One got dropped in the worst team in the league

The other won a championship and Clive Churchill to go with his Dally M halfback of the year

Yup, I see the similarities

He was also the worst player in reserve grade, the reserves were genuinely worse off with him in the side haha

 

[speedy2460]

Averillo or BBO will be in the halves. I believe Wakeham is on a short list to be moved on.

 

[UndeadShadowMan]

See how he goes in the trials with better players around him if he is still bog average don't name him for round 1

 

[CMP]

I am sick of hearing the following:

Excuse 1: Give Flanagan a chance. He is only a kid. He will grow and develop.

Truth: Flanagan is older than Nathan Cleary. If he had what it takes to be a quality halfback, we would have seen it by now.

Excuse 2: He is in a shit squad. Put some decent players around him and he will be a completely different player.

Truth: He does not have the basic skills necessary to be a halfback. If you look at his actual skills, his kicks are always one dimensional, end over end. He does not know how to put spin or spiral on his kicks. His kicks are always easily caught by the opposition. He does not know how to get a repeat set or a 40/20. He lacks creativity and vision in attack. His passing game is non existent. You can put him in an origin team and he will still be the same as he is now.

He doesn’t have a long kick
He doesn’t have a good enough short kicking game
He doesn’t have any variety skill set in his kick as pointed out. Simply end over end.
He doesn’t run the ball. Passes it meters before the defensive line giving his outside men no chance.

He is probably the best goal kicker in the club. As a Winger you can get away with being not the greatest player but can kick goals at 90%. As a 7 that’s not an option. If the 7 is average your not scoring try’s to worry about converting them.

Flanagan is a long way from an NRL standard

 

[Dog Till I Die]

Not to put too fine a point on this thread, but to quote Basil in Fawlty Towers:

MANUEL: Meester Fawtly, if he goez, I go...
FAWLTY: WELL, GOODBYE!

 

[TwinTurbo]

He doesn’t have a long kick
He doesn’t have a good enough short kicking game
He doesn’t have any variety skill set in his kick as pointed out. Simply end over end.
He doesn’t run the ball. Passes it meters before the defensive line giving his outside men no chance.

He is probably the best goal kicker in the club. As a Winger you can get away with being not the greatest player but can kick goals at 90%. As a 7 that’s not an option. If the 7 is average your not scoring try’s to worry about converting them.

Flanagan is a long way from an NRL standard

When it come to professional sports absolutes are not often absolute.

He actually does have a long kick and Burton’s long kick is even longer. We are pretty well equiped for that next year.

“Good enough”, short kicking is very much dependant on whose chasing and how good enough they are. The chase often makes an average kick look better than it actually was.

He does need to work on the “floater”, it’s not a skill that you are born with, you learn it, through hours and hours of practise, putting in the work. Which KFlanagan actually does, in my limited viewing he was the last to leave training and practised his kicking both before and after.

Throughout his junior career he has always “run the ball” when the opportunity arose, with us last season there weren't that many opportunities created. FMD Katoa had a habit of killing them, all on his own.

Much of what he did with us last season isn’t how I have seen him play in the past, is that him, the players around him or what he was told to do? We will find out this year.

Always a Bulldog

 

[ElMagicElMasri]

The “truth” for excuse 1 is so bad. Folau could’ve played centre for Australia at 18, does this mean we should get rid of schoupp?

 

[SweetFA]

Did Cronulla only play that way when SFlanagan was coaching them, I don't think so.

KFlanagan has been "coached" by SFlanagan since he was old enough to hold a football, does anyone really think that he would teach his son differently to what he coached his teams, I don't think so.

I have seen KFlanagan play since he was in high school and displayed many many times his ability to play ad hoc football, has he forgotten how do that, I don't think so.

Based on history I believed he would do well for us, not a superstar and that I suspect is the reason why many wear the hate glasses when watching him play. The expectations placed on him by many were simply too high, the fact is he is a couple of years under the age when most (not all) halves raise they game. Exhibit A, Jerome Hughes, did virtually nothing until he was 25, was a back up to the back up until last year. Exhibit B, Jamal Fogarty, he's 27m, a late bloomer, played 2 games for the Titans in 2017, none in 2018, none in 2019 and then last year displayed enough to play 18 games and then 21 games this year.

Maybe he will find the form that he has displayed all through his career when he has a decent set of forwards to lay the foundations, something all halves need. Maybe he won't, but I think it's a bit premature to completely write him off, and he is not the only player that we have in similar situations.

Always a Bulldog

Throw Cody Walker into that mix of late bloomers

 

[Apex Cedar]

Throw Cody Walker into that mix of late bloomers

Who ? You mean “cut out” walker lol

 

[D- voice]

I am sick of hearing the following:

Excuse 1: Give Flanagan a chance. He is only a kid. He will grow and develop.

Truth: Flanagan is older than Nathan Cleary. If he had what it takes to be a quality halfback, we would have seen it by now.

Excuse 2: He is in a shit squad. Put some decent players around him and he will be a completely different player.

Truth: He does not have the basic skills necessary to be a halfback. If you look at his actual skills, his kicks are always one dimensional, end over end. He does not know how to put spin or spiral on his kicks. His kicks are always easily caught by the opposition. He does not know how to get a repeat set or a 40/20. He lacks creativity and vision in attack. His passing game is non existent. You can put him in an origin team and he will still be the same as he is now.

Firstly I think you should add a question mark on the thread's title
My opinion, Flanagan has had three clubs and three different coaches to prove himself, yet he failed to live to the expectations every time.
The solution for Flanagan and club should be...
Flanagan moves to the UK, gains his confidence back or maybe.
Club gets the cap space and invests in a halfback a GENERAL !!!
There's still the possibility of Flanagan snr joining Tigpies and jnr joining him there with the possibility of Brooks coming our way for a 1 year and 1 year club option at the right price

 

[Phalangist]

If he were given another chance, nothing would make me happier than seeing the kid do well. Unfortunately I'm not sure ha has "it". If the other "Coach Trent" couldn't do anything with him then I'm not sure our "Trent" can either. It's extremely rare for the Rorters to let a good one go.

you are right about the roosters, I was just hoping they just thought yeah he is good but we have an even better half coming through.

 

[CMP]

When it come to professional sports absolutes are not often absolute.

He actually does have a long kick and Burton’s long kick is even longer. We are pretty well equiped for that next year.

“Good enough”, short kicking is very much dependant on whose chasing and how good enough they are. The chase often makes an average kick look better than it actually was.

He does need to work on the “floater”, it’s not a skill that you are born with, you learn it, through hours and hours of practise, putting in the work. Which KFlanagan actually does, in my limited viewing he was the last to leave training and practised his kicking both before and after.

Throughout his junior career he has always “run the ball” when the opportunity arose, with us last season there weren't that many opportunities created. FMD Katoa had a habit of killing them, all on his own.

Much of what he did with us last season isn’t how I have seen him play in the past, is that him, the players around him or what he was told to do? We will find out this year.

Always a Bulldog

If he has a long kick I didn’t see it last year. I will take your word for it.

His short kicking game involves a cross field bomb that is never high enough and misses the prime landing position. His grabbers hit the first line of defence more often than making it behind the line.

He does everything way to far back from the defensive line. So easy to read what he is doing.

He needs to put himself on the line to be smashed. That takes confidence. Something he is lacking big time.

He needs a solid off-season and a solid season in reggies to develop. He is on massive coin for his ability. That’s why he has to accept the pressure to deliver. I hope I’m wrong but I just don’t see the ability to be a first grade half.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Flanno is one of those frustrating players who shines at tier 2 level but seems to flub things once a certain amount of pressure is on. Evidence for this suggestion:

1. He was usually a stand out in the NSW Cup games he played in before getting to the NRL. Chooks didn't sign him for no reason, he was considered to be the best young 2nd tier halfback at the time for a reason.
2. He actually started really well for us. Before the pressure was really on, from memory he had 2 try assists in the trial match against the sharks, and in round 1 he had 3 try assists. After round 1 most fans were fairly convinced that given a bit more time he was going to develop into at least a decent first grader, because he actually had a decent game against the Knights.
3. The next game he actually played pretty well again, 28 nil loss to the eventual premiers, but the pressure began to tell. Although he kicked over 500 meters and made a lot of tackles for a halfback, and was a lot better than Averillo, I'd put this game down as the beginning of the problems. The following game was our worst of the season, the loss to the Bonks. Our loss to Manly was bigger, but we had a bunch of players Debuting that game fresh after the Covid 5 problem. There appeared no reason to lose so badly to last years wooden spooners like we did in Round 3.

And since then in about 10 more games played, Flanno has had another 3 try assists, the same amount he got in game 1. He's been trying to convince himself that its just a blip, and Trent stuck with him for a while, but constant failure told.

I think that he has the "ability" to play NRL, but he hasn't got the mental toughness. He has the determination, but he hasn't figured out how to tackle the nerves and anxiety, and I'd suspect that his rapid rise from tier 2 into the starting 7 role to replace Cooper Cronk at the Chooks is a major factor in that. Had he been handled differently, and not had the expectations placed on him that he had, it might have ended up being a different story.

The real lesson from this is to give young blokes like Burton, Alamoti, Schoupp, Averillo etc some time and patience. Don't place heavy expectations on them.

 

[Alan79]

Before he came to the club I thought he was massively over hyped from his junior days. That hype had been dispelled a bit at the Roosters. But I was still hopeful that he'd bring a good short kicking game and organisational skills.

A year on and without having seen every game he played, the good things in his game I noticed were that he nailed a few cutout passes to wingers and did well on some kick chases to score.

Overall that's a small bag of tricks for a halfback. I think the big worry with him is that given his father's influence and the fact that he came through the grades where his father was head coach would mean that he's not faced the same reality checks that other players at his level have. Seems to have a poor ability to accept the negative feedback from the coaching staff. Perhaps best shown in his little episode in front of the media where he kind of hinted that his father still hasn't given him accountability.

He may or may not improve, but that has to start with him admitting that he needs to.

 

[GoTheDoggies]

He had a chance in a stacked Roosters team as well.

Barrett was delusional with this signing.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

you are right about the roosters, I was just hoping they just thought yeah he is good but we have an even better half coming through.

They did think he was good. He wasn't merely there to fill a year for them while they waited on Sam Walker:

1. They are under no illusions as to whether Sam Walker will move to QLD if he gets a decent offer to do so
2. They knew they need multiple halves because Keary is injury prone and at the time it still wasn't real certain if Lam and Hutchinson could handle the job.

They didn't handle him well, evidence for that is how many times this season they have played Sam Walker off the bench, despite him having a better start to his chooks career than Flanno did. They have deliberately set about taking pressure off the kid. They made the mistake with Flanno of basically setting him up as the Cronk replacement.

TBaz made the mistake at the start of this season of saying Flanno would do the role for us that Cleary was doing for Penriff. He didn't say he was going to be the next Cleary, but that is what it became. Hopefully TBaz has learned from this and keeps his cards much closer to his chest next season. The media and the fans are mostly idiots who will misrepresent you.