Gay marriage plebiscite - Result YES to SSM

[Hacky McAxe]

I should point out that I said "logical reason". There's complaints of "they'll force my religion to do this" or "they'll infect my children with gay" but as has been covered many times in this topic. That's completely illogical and not even remotely factual.

When it comes to logic it's one thing. You vote No because you think of homosexuals as lesser people who deserve less rights. If it's for religious reasons, that's fine. Abstain from the vote. But even as a religious person, voting No is saying that you don't think homosexuals deserve the same rights as you.

 

[Realist90]

That's exactly the point mate... he let them be... thats what it's all about. You can have a moral opinion on something, but as I understand it, Christ preached tolerance and compassion, not throwing people in jail or off cliffs for being gay.... or bashing them. I'm not a biblical scholar, but don't recall Christ ever calling for the bashing or murder of anybody....

It's not about whether everyone is a danger to the homosexual community. Obviously that is not the case. It's a matter of admitting a problem has historically existed within this community and those hostile attitudes still persist in some circles to this day. My point isn't about trying to force my values on you, it's about pointing out there is a latent homophobia on display from certain elements of the no campaign and me refuting the assertion that elements of the yes didecare tge only ones being aggressive in this debate. I refute that absolutely. Your opinion is really your business.

I'm glad you were able to bounce back from your own bullying experiences. It's not so easy to bounce back when you've been thrown off a cliff....that wasn't even intended as the sick joke it sounds like, but I think it's impactful and gets the point across, so I'll leave it. Certainly not making light of what is an horrendous chapter of violence in this country. Face reality. Homophobia has historically been a big problem in this country and many gay people and their families still deal with the repercussions of historically entrenched attitudes of intolerance to this day. Whether it's the majority posing the threat is irrelevant. It's still an obstacle in the path to the most cohesive society we can be.

We must face ugly stuff has happened and still happens sometimes in this country. It's not a matter of condemning everyone. It's a matter of facing reality.

We can all have our opinions, but if we're going to call out hostility and aggression, please...a little consistency and historical context.

Bullying effected me big time, had no confidence growing up, sensitive as fuck, spineless little bitch I was, caused depression issues, led to suicidal thoughts. But I ever took that step quite obviously, and I am happy that I got bullied as a kid, it made me stronger and I learnt a lot from it.
It's called reality bro, and gays and the lgbtq community and which ever minority or discriminated group needs to learn these lessons as well. I'm not saying it should happen but it happens, its life and instead of ending ones life or forcing people to comply, support should be there which there is plenty of support these days and they should get the help they needed. Thwre was never this type of support just a decade ago.

This also leads to the issue of suicide rates of trannies, there's no scientific or hard proof to suggest accepting what gender they believe will stop suicide rates, they're still at a whopping 40 fkn percent. And it comes down to it being an actual mental illness and these people need help and treatment. It's just like people with depression/bipolar, we actually need treatment and medication, we can't force people to accept we will go on crazy rampages, mood swings 24/7 and hold a job down playing the oh I'm a victim you can't let me go coz I have depression. It not only affects the business but affects people around them, this is coming from a person who knows first hand. And I'm not talking about depression from a break up, or something like that, depression is where no matter what! You can't get out of the fkn hole you're in, no matter what you're told no matter how many times you're told to smile and look at the positives the brain won't actually allow it, ta got something to do with he brain actually not functioning right, so medication is needed to help out. So I think trannies should definitely not be bullied as they're going through mental demons but changing their genitals or dressing like the opposite sex does not! Fix the issue, it may subside the mental issues hey have for a time but it will always come back hence the suicide rates staying relatively high within that group. I feel bad for them.

lets look at the big picture about gays in this country though, they've been able to grow quite fkn powerful and quite protected which is great, now look at other countries who still have the death penalty or have it criminalised. I don't think Australia is perfect but the freedom and tolerance is extremely high compared to others and we should be grateful of that. I personally do not think gays were anywhere nearrrrr treated as bad as aborigines or blacks in America no where near! And a lot of aborigines and blacks in America get deeply offended that some people on the left compare how gays were treated with blacks. Gays were never treated as bad especially in the number of how the Abos and blacks were. So I think it's actually 'insensitive' and quite ridiculous people have this thought on how gays were treated.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Bullying effected me big time, had no confidence growing up, sensitive as fuck, spineless little bitch I was, caused depression issues, led to suicidal thoughts. But I ever took that step quite obviously, and I am happy that I got bullied as a kid, it made me stronger and I learnt a lot from it.
It's called reality bro, and gays and the lgbtq community and which ever minority or discriminated group needs to learn these lessons as well. I'm not saying it should happen but it happens, its life and instead of ending ones life or forcing people to comply, support should be there which there is plenty of support these days and they should get the help they needed. Thwre was never this type of support just a decade ago.

This also leads to the issue of suicide rates of trannies, there's no scientific or hard proof to suggest accepting what gender they believe will stop suicide rates, they're still at a whopping 40 fkn percent. And it comes down to it being an actual mental illness and these people need help and treatment. It's just like people with depression/bipolar, we actually need treatment and medication, we can't force people to accept we will go on crazy rampages, mood swings 24/7 and hold a job down playing the oh I'm a victim you can't let me go coz I have depression. It not only affects the business but affects people around them, this is coming from a person who knows first hand. And I'm not talking about depression from a break up, or something like that, depression is where no matter what! You can't get out of the fkn hole you're in, no matter what you're told no matter how many times you're told to smile and look at the positives the brain won't actually allow it, ta got something to do with he brain actually not functioning right, so medication is needed to help out. So I think trannies should definitely not be bullied as they're going through mental demons but changing their genitals or dressing like the opposite sex does not! Fix the issue, it may subside the mental issues hey have for a time but it will always come back hence the suicide rates staying relatively high within that group. I feel bad for them.

lets look at the big picture about gays in this country though, they've been able to grow quite fkn powerful and quite protected which is great, now look at other countries who still have the death penalty or have it criminalised. I don't think Australia is perfect but the freedom and tolerance is extremely high compared to others and we should be grateful of that. I personally do not think gays were anywhere nearrrrr treated as bad as aborigines or blacks in America no where near! And a lot of aborigines and blacks in America get deeply offended that some people on the left compare how gays were treated with blacks. Gays were never treated as bad especially in the number of how the Abos and blacks were. So I think it's actually 'insensitive' and quite ridiculous people have this thought on how gays were treated.

As far as the racial thing goes, I think it comes down to how easy it is to hide it. It's kind of easy to pretend you're not gay. Not so easy to pretend you're not black.

 

[CaptainJackson]

If it's for religious reasons, that's fine. Abstain from the vote.

Don't know if you'll believe me but said that to one of my religious mates last week with same rationality you described in your post

It is genuinely the most logical conclusion

 

[Mr Invisible]

Both sides are just getting frigging silly now.

Protestors from Yes clashing with No, does nothing for either side.
Wankers skywriting VOTE NO in the sky during Blackmores Running Festival, does nothing for either side.

This is a PERSONAL issue, and people should make the decision on a Yes/No vote PERSONALLY... not because of a banner, or an ad, or a person on TV. Once a person considering ANY outside influences on their vote, it's no longer an opinion vote, but rather a forced vote.

 

[Flanagun]

Bullying effected me big time, had no confidence growing up, sensitive as fuck, spineless little bitch I was, caused depression issues, led to suicidal thoughts. But I ever took that step quite obviously, and I am happy that I got bullied as a kid, it made me stronger and I learnt a lot from it.
It's called reality bro, and gays and the lgbtq community and which ever minority or discriminated group needs to learn these lessons as well. I'm not saying it should happen but it happens, its life and instead of ending ones life or forcing people to comply, support should be there which there is plenty of support these days and they should get the help they needed. Thwre was never this type of support just a decade ago.

This also leads to the issue of suicide rates of trannies, there's no scientific or hard proof to suggest accepting what gender they believe will stop suicide rates, they're still at a whopping 40 fkn percent. And it comes down to it being an actual mental illness and these people need help and treatment. It's just like people with depression/bipolar, we actually need treatment and medication, we can't force people to accept we will go on crazy rampages, mood swings 24/7 and hold a job down playing the oh I'm a victim you can't let me go coz I have depression. It not only affects the business but affects people around them, this is coming from a person who knows first hand. And I'm not talking about depression from a break up, or something like that, depression is where no matter what! You can't get out of the fkn hole you're in, no matter what you're told no matter how many times you're told to smile and look at the positives the brain won't actually allow it, ta got something to do with he brain actually not functioning right, so medication is needed to help out. So I think trannies should definitely not be bullied as they're going through mental demons but changing their genitals or dressing like the opposite sex does not! Fix the issue, it may subside the mental issues hey have for a time but it will always come back hence the suicide rates staying relatively high within that group. I feel bad for them.

lets look at the big picture about gays in this country though, they've been able to grow quite fkn powerful and quite protected which is great, now look at other countries who still have the death penalty or have it criminalised. I don't think Australia is perfect but the freedom and tolerance is extremely high compared to others and we should be grateful of that. I personally do not think gays were anywhere nearrrrr treated as bad as aborigines or blacks in America no where near! And a lot of aborigines and blacks in America get deeply offended that some people on the left compare how gays were treated with blacks. Gays were never treated as bad especially in the number of how the Abos and blacks were. So I think it's actually 'insensitive' and quite ridiculous people have this thought on how gays were treated.

No, you are being insensitive here mate. You've denied homophobia has historically been a problem in this country, so I've produced links containing evidence verified by the police that organised gay hunting (and even murder in the most extreme attacks) was fairly commonplace fairly recently and attitudes like that don't disappear overnight. Violence against members of the gay community still occurs to this day ...both physical and psychological.

I'm sorry to hear about the extent of the bullying you went through and if it made you stronger personally that's great.... do you think the families of those who were beaten for being who they are or those who were pushed off cliffs have grown stronger? Let alone the victims.... do you think gay people grow stronger from so called civilised mainstream debate that links them to pedophiles and people who commit acts of bestiality? That shit makes nobody stronger...except maybe the true bigots of the extreme no campaign still jockeying for ideological position in this debate.

Your attempts to divert by saying there are bigger social problems is also highly insensitive. Insensitive to anyone who has ever been the victim of an attack based on their sexuality... anyone who is a family member who has been badly maimed or killed, or anyone who has lost a family member up suicide as a result of any form of bullying.

Yes those problems blend you mention are all serious issues that warrant more mainstream attention. That doesn't mean we should deny this problem because it's in the mainstream. Better to broaden a discussion than just divert one.

Bullying is not some sort of rite of passage, but assuming your assertion is true, you have no right to accuse the yes campaign of bullying potential no voters, because by your logic, it's just a rite of passage and should only make them stronger!

 

[The DoggFather]

yep born in the land of Al-Saud.

 

[The DoggFather]

I should point out that I said "logical reason". There's complaints of "they'll force my religion to do this" or "they'll infect my children with gay" but as has been covered many times in this topic. That's completely illogical and not even remotely factual.

When it comes to logic it's one thing. You vote No because you think of homosexuals as lesser people who deserve less rights. If it's for religious reasons, that's fine. Abstain from the vote. But even as a religious person, voting No is saying that you don't think homosexuals deserve the same rights as you.

Hence why I'm not voting.

 

[Realist90]

As far as the racial thing goes, I think it comes down to how easy it is to hide it. It's kind of easy to pretend you're not gay. Not so easy to pretend you're not black.

Hahahaha in my case I was a tanned mono browed leg haired Lebo in year 2 onwards hahahaha

 

[Realist90]

No, you are being insensitive here mate. You've denied homophobia has historically been a problem in this country, so I've produced links containing evidence verified by the police that organised gay hunting (and even murder in the most extreme attacks) was fairly commonplace fairly recently and attitudes like that don't disappear overnight. Violence against members of the gay community still occurs to this day ...both physical and psychological.

I'm sorry to hear about the extent of the bullying you went through and if it made you stronger personally that's great.... do you think the families of those who were beaten for being who they are or those who were pushed off cliffs have grown stronger? Let alone the victims.... do you think gay people grow stronger from so called civilised mainstream debate that links them to pedophiles and people who commit acts of bestiality? That shit makes nobody stronger...except maybe the true bigots of the extreme no campaign still jockeying for ideological position in this debate.

Your attempts to divert by saying there are bigger social problems is also highly insensitive. Insensitive to anyone who has ever been the victim of an attack based on their sexuality... anyone who is a family member who has been badly maimed or killed, or anyone who has lost a family member up suicide as a result of any form of bullying.

Yes those problems blend you mention are all serious issues that warrant more mainstream attention. That doesn't mean we should deny this problem because it's in the mainstream. Better to broaden a discussion than just divert one.

Bullying is not some sort of rite of passage, but assuming your assertion is true, you have no right to accuse the yes campaign of bullying potential no voters, because by your logic, it's just a rite of passage and should only make them stronger!

I'm not denying there's been horrific homophobic attacks in the past, I'm simply saying that to say it was as bad as howaboriginies and blacks were treated is insensitive and historically inaccurate. Atleast in Australia and most of the west.

No one has the rite to bully I don't know how you got that from what I said? I'm completely against it, but what I'm saying is, it is going to happen, it is reality, we are human, people will be bullied, people will tolerate the bullying others won't, but that doesn't mean we force people into not being bullies, it would be good but it's not realistic without taking away that bullies rights as a human.

I do think the yes campaigners are bullies that's correct however I am not asking for them to be forced to shut up, only asking for consultancy in the msm to condemn the left as much as the right, essentially anyone fucking around and deserves to be condemned should be condemned even if it's a gay who's had history of being bullied he then doesn't have the right to turn around, and feel empowered with a hundred leftists behind him and start the bullying. It makes them just the same as people who bully in general.

 

[Realist90]

Both sides are just getting frigging silly now.

Protestors from Yes clashing with No, does nothing for either side.
Wankers skywriting VOTE NO in the sky during Blackmores Running Festival, does nothing for either side.

This is a PERSONAL issue, and people should make the decision on a Yes/No vote PERSONALLY... not because of a banner, or an ad, or a person on TV. Once a person considering ANY outside influences on their vote, it's no longer an opinion vote, but rather a forced vote.

So if you're influenced from your gay buddies, does that make it a forced vote? Lol I see what you're saying but that's dangerous communist ground you're walking haha.

 

[Papa Emeritus]

This thread moves way too fast.

I find it funny people are citing things like "a child deserves a mother and father etc". You can think that is the best scenario, that is fine. However you are not basing this on any fact at all, it is purely an opinion.

I think this kind of stance is very offensive to people who grow up with one parent for starters. I know plenty of people who turned out awesome only having one parent, and plenty who grew up fine (me included) with divorced parents where one parent did basically jack shit.

People don't need two parents, and denying gay people getting married does absolutely nothing to increase the likelihood people will have a mother and father anyway.

Do you not realise that gay people can already adopt? They don't need to get married to have kids ffs. They can do it now. I even know gay people who have paid for surrogates in other countries and have multiple children who are being raised in a much more stable environment than many straight families.

But whatever, if you want to live in a fantasy land where you think denying gay people equal rights makes you some kind of social crusader, you can. This will happen eventually, even if this vote is a no. We are basically the only western country to not allow it right now, it is inevitable. Get with the program.

 

[Flanagun]

I'm not denying there's been horrific homophobic attacks in the past, I'm simply saying that to say it was as bad as howaboriginies and blacks were treated is insensitive and historically inaccurate. Atleast in Australia and most of the west.

No one has the rite to bully I don't know how you got that from what I said? I'm completely against it, but what I'm saying is, it is going to happen, it is reality, we are human, people will be bullied, people will tolerate the bullying others won't, but that doesn't mean we force people into not being bullies, it would be good but it's not realistic without taking away that bullies rights as a human.

I do think the yes campaigners are bullies that's correct however I am not asking for them to be forced to shut up, only asking for consultancy in the msm to condemn the left as much as the right, essentially anyone fucking around and deserves to be condemned should be condemned even if it's a gay who's had history of being bullied he then doesn't have the right to turn around, and feel empowered with a hundred leftists behind him and start the bullying. It makes them just the same as people who bully in general.

Mate a lot of people were murdered. It's easy to talk about the relativity of a problem if it hasn't effected you or foneone you know. And I'm not just talking about murder and physical assault... those are just the most extreme examples.

All I'm saying is that the homophobia that led to those attacks still exists and manifests in society from time to time. The physical violence is less frequent... the police takes the gay community seriously now which always helps in that regard, but very ugly attitudes towards homosexuals atill exist in society. There may not be much we can do about that as long as they act lawfully, but my basic point is that some of the rhetoric from elements of the no campaign has been overtly hostile and outright slanderous and im saying it in direct response to no campaigners who are saying yes campaigners arr the ones being uncivilised. I have a different point of view. I think it's wrong to shout st someone and tell them how yo vote, but I also think it's wrong to employ overly hostile smear tactics to prove a supposed point in what is supposed to be a civilised debate. There are problems with a lack of basic respect in elements of both sides... but the gay community has been on the receiving end of a long history of aggression and hostility from members of the mainstream and some of those ugly attitudes are resurfacing in this debate. That's how I feel....and I've got to get to bed...so goodnight!

 

[Dawgfather]

I should point out that I said "logical reason". There's complaints of "they'll force my religion to do this" or "they'll infect my children with gay" but as has been covered many times in this topic. That's completely illogical and not even remotely factual.

When it comes to logic it's one thing. You vote No because you think of homosexuals as lesser people who deserve less rights. If it's for religious reasons, that's fine. Abstain from the vote. But even as a religious person, voting No is saying that you don't think homosexuals deserve the same rights as you.

It is not bigoted, homophobic or in any way wrong to vote no.

Running a campaign saying these things is pure bullying.

If the yes campaign is so 'righteous', then state your case for it and then let people cast their vote. Surely if the no vote is so awful then people will vote accordingly.

I don't think of homosexuals as beneath me, they are simply another member of the Australian community and on an even playing field.

 

[Dawgfather]

This thread moves way too fast.

I find it funny people are citing things like "a child deserves a mother and father etc". You can think that is the best scenario, that is fine. However you are not basing this on any fact at all, it is purely an opinion.

I think this kind of stance is very offensive to people who grow up with one parent for starters. I know plenty of people who turned out awesome only having one parent, and plenty who grew up fine (me included) with divorced parents where one parent did basically jack shit.

People don't need two parents, and denying gay people getting married does absolutely nothing to increase the likelihood people will have a mother and father anyway.

Do you not realise that gay people can already adopt? They don't need to get married to have kids ffs. They can do it now. I even know gay people who have paid for surrogates in other countries and have multiple children who are being raised in a much more stable environment than many straight families.

But whatever, if you want to live in a fantasy land where you think denying gay people equal rights makes you some kind of social crusader, you can. This will happen eventually, even if this vote is a no. We are basically the only western country to not allow it right now, it is inevitable. Get with the program.

Marriage is not a human right and it is also not discriminatory to exclude groups of people through the definition of marriage. This has been ruled on multiple times, by multiple courts.

 

[Dawgfather]

Bullying is not some sort of rite of passage, but assuming your assertion is true, you have no right to accuse the yes campaign of bullying potential no voters, because by your logic, it's just a rite of passage and should only make them stronger!

In many cases, bullying is absolutely a rite of passage. Many young boys go through some form of bullying at some stage and many or most of them learn many valuable lessons from it. I'm not saying bullying is ok, but I'm certainly saying that trying to create a world where we teach kids to think that no one will ever be mean to them is just silly.

I wouldn't call gay hunting and similar acts bullying, I would call that criminal.

and to clarify, the yes campaign is almost entirely based around bullying people into accepting the Yes vote.

The no campaign have put up some good debates and reasons for people to reconsider voting yes. So far I've seen the yes campaign (mostly) put up the case that they are discriminated against and that if you vote no you are a social outcast and homophobic.

 

[Wahesh]

The bible preaches non judgment as much as it preaches morality and that is what so many on the no side fail to or refuse to see. The bible actively discourages some of the vindictive, judgmental shit that comes from elements of the no campaign.

Many of us on no side are not judging them and calling them sinners, we are trying to preserve the definition marriage as well as morality. There is a popular saying that I'm sure you've heard many times before... "Only God can judge me" made famous by Tupac, and that is something that a lot of Christians live by when it comes to issues they may have with other people - let God judge them.

From what I've seen on here, most yes voters seem to admit there is an element of the yes campaign that is too militant in its approach. It would be nice to see that same accountability and ability to acknowledge the shortcomings of some of its own campaigners from you and some others on the no side.

A bit too militant is an understatement. What happens to people who publicly say yes? People begin to worship the ground they work on. What happens to people who say no? Their safety and career come under attack, case in point, Margaret Court and Israel Folau.[/QUOTE]

Trying to blame everything on the side that represents people who have been historically victimised in this country is absurd imo.

Sure, some on the yes side are a bit too confrontational. Don't act like it's only those on the no side being exposed to confrontational attitudes.

This debate is not about the extremists on either side.

I don't and never will support any form of bullying or victimisation... EVER. However, allowing same sex marriages is NOT the answer to that.

 

[yearofthedog]

Its crazy how as soon as someone says theyre going to vote no the whole gay parade jump down their throat. Hate these ****

 

[Hacky McAxe]

It is not bigoted, homophobic or in any way wrong to vote no.

Running a campaign saying these things is pure bullying.

If the yes campaign is so 'righteous', then state your case for it and then let people cast their vote. Surely if the no vote is so awful then people will vote accordingly.

I don't think of homosexuals as beneath me, they are simply another member of the Australian community and on an even playing field.

I didn't say that it was homophobic or bigoted. I said that the only logical reason to vote No is if you think homosexuals don't deserve the same rights as heterosexuals.

Is there any other logical reason to vote No?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Marriage is not a human right and it is also not discriminatory to exclude groups of people through the definition of marriage. This has been ruled on multiple times, by multiple courts.

It's not a human right but it is a civil right. Denying civil rights to one group based on sexual orientation is considered discriminatory.