Expansion versus relocation: Why it’s time for NRL to seriously consider moving some of the nine Sydney-based clubs

[Chris Harding]

Wests hage Campbelltown which is very important for league.

If a team gets reallocated.

Its either Dragons or Bulldogs.

Both teams are not the powerhouses they use to be.

We both are expendable

So important that they are at the bottom of the ladder, even with three byes.

 

[Nate DAWG]

Why do they focus on teams performing poorly on-field when it comes to relocation?

It makes no sense. A club can be playing shit, but still be able to stand on its own two feet financially.

100% on field success is cyclical. Basing business decisions on on field performance and not financial stability is fkn madness.

 

[Chris Harding]

I trust you will now outline how and why expansion is killing the game

Spreading the talent pool too thin. The extra team in the competition, had an opportunity to pick the best players off contract, to the detriment of clubs looking to shore up their weaknesses.

The three byes distort the table, and take away another weekend game for the fans.

The idea that Sydney teams must lose two home games each year to "promote" the game, when years of doing this has not achieved any measurable increase in interest from new areas.

The refusal to invest in decent local grounds for clubs like the Bulldogs and Souths, so they have no home advantage, and no base for fans. The argument being that the money has to be spread into areas that the NRL wants to infiltrate, so older clubs can do without. So, give those traditional clubs a super stadium, and tell them to share it.

The NRL has lost its heart by pursuing growth for the sake of it, instead of focusing on quality.

 

[dogsballs]

I was literally thinking this the other day, it would be maybe be possible to persuade wests to leave the tigers, which I understand their relationship is rocky? and merge with us. We would literally not have to change our colours and just become Western Sydney Bulldogs but gain that whole nursery area and build that stadium in Liverpool. Balmain can go the way of the jets etc. We need a bigger junior base IMO.

 

[Malla]

Spreading the talent pool too thin. The extra team in the competition, had an opportunity to pick the best players off contract, to the detriment of clubs looking to shore up their weaknesses.

The three byes distort the table, and take away another weekend game for the fans.

The idea that Sydney teams must lose two home games each year to "promote" the game, when years of doing this has not achieved any measurable increase in interest from new areas.

The refusal to invest in decent local grounds for clubs like the Bulldogs and Souths, so they have no home advantage, and no base for fans. The argument being that the money has to be spread into areas that the NRL wants to infiltrate, so older clubs can do without. So, give those traditional clubs a super stadium, and tell them to share it.

The NRL has lost its heart by pursuing growth for the sake of it, instead of focusing on quality.

Talent pool is a separate issue that is even a struggle when there were only 16 teams in the comp, however the NRL is not to blame for this. I'm sure you know Chris, each team manages their talent pools separately. Some teams choose to invest in their pathways (Cowboys, Panthers, Eels, Storm), some teams choose the top heavy approach and sign the best players on the market when they're available (Titans, Roosters, Souths, etc) other teams just sign average players to big money deals because they need bums on seats (Tigers, Bulldogs up until 2022, Dragons).

There is a talent pool issue, each club chooses to address that their way. You are never going to get a perfect balance. Covid did not help talent, but it's slowly getting back on track. This should have no impact on an expansion team nor should it dictate whether it happens. If NRL is that concerned, they would have to address this by scrapping the salary cap.

3 bye's is actually not because of an extra team, it's because of origin. The NRL made a decision to NOT go with SOO stand alone weekends, thus having to insert 2 extra bye's during origin period to ensure players are getting adequate rests. Without origin, there would be no need for byes. With an extra team, yes, there would be a need for 1 bye. This will be rectified with the addition of an 18th team in a few years when it's time to renew the TV deal.

With abovementioned point re: TV deal, this is all that its about. An 18th team by then would mean that not only do we play an extra round (9 extra games) but also another extra game per week so every week there are 9 games of footy over 26 rounds (do the maths). That means extra $$$$ in TV rights deal. This is how NRL will achieve expansion. Do they care about talent? No. Individual clubs should care about that.

Sorry but why the hell should NRL care about having a heart? It's a business lol.

 

[Dogmonster]

Spreading the talent pool too thin. The extra team in the competition, had an opportunity to pick the best players off contract, to the detriment of clubs looking to shore up their weaknesses.

The three byes distort the table, and take away another weekend game for the fans.

The idea that Sydney teams must lose two home games each year to "promote" the game, when years of doing this has not achieved any measurable increase in interest from new areas.

The refusal to invest in decent local grounds for clubs like the Bulldogs and Souths, so they have no home advantage, and no base for fans. The argument being that the money has to be spread into areas that the NRL wants to infiltrate, so older clubs can do without. So, give those traditional clubs a super stadium, and tell them to share it.

The NRL has lost its heart by pursuing growth for the sake of it, instead of focusing on quality.

I strongly believe and know its not the talent pool at all, the biggest problem is the lack of good coaches and staff. Many young guys give up through lack of opportunities. You just need good coaching and management.

 

[Malla]

I strongly believe and know its not the talent pool at all, the biggest problem is the lack of good coaches and staff. Many young guys give up through lack of opportunities. You just need good coaching and management.

You are spot on.

And the root cause of this is the way teams are run. A lot of boards, GM's and CEO's are after instant success. Coaches now don't really have the time to build a program the way Panthers or Storm have. Boards put a lot of pressure on coaches to get results asap, as a result those coaches go out and recruit 'top tier' talent in a results driven environment. Some then start doing things like back ended deals, this impacts junior pathways and development because teams are in 'win now' mode. What happens then, it goes belly up because those players are being offered millions and they don't play with the same hunger, or they get injuries etc. Then in 1-2 years time the coach gets sacked because they're not winning. And that team goes through the same process all over again.

Who does this impact the most? The players and the teams.

There's more than enough talent out there.

 

[JayBee]

You are spot on.

And the root cause of this is the way teams are run. A lot of boards, GM's and CEO's are after instant success. Coaches now don't really have the time to build a program the way Panthers or Storm have. Boards put a lot of pressure on coaches to get results asap, as a result those coaches go out and recruit 'top tier' talent in a results driven environment. Some then start doing things like back ended deals, this impacts junior pathways and development because teams are in 'win now' mode. What happens then, it goes belly up because those players are being offered millions and they don't play with the same hunger, or they get injuries etc. Then in 1-2 years time the coach gets sacked because they're not winning. And that team goes through the same process all over again.

Who does this impact the most? The players and the teams.

There's more than enough talent out there.

Joey kills me on this topic.

If you have a look at NSW/Q cup from just this weekend - here are a list of players who plied their trade in reggies:

• Jack Bird
• Braydon Trindall
• Xavier Savage
• Nick Cotric
• Danny Levi
• Waqa Blake
• Jack Murchie
• Brayden Williame
• Hymel Hunt
• Corey Allan
• Mitch Dunn
• Jamayne Tanuao-Brown
• Jordan Pereira
• Young Tonumaipea
• Jesse Arthars
• Albert Kelly

Not a list of "glorious" marquee players - but a lot of NRL talent in there

 

[Malla]

Joey kills me on this topic.

If you have a look at NSW/Q cup from just this weekend - here are a list of players who plied their trade in reggies:

• Jack Bird
• Braydon Trindall
• Xavier Savage
• Nick Cotric
• Danny Levi
• Waqa Blake
• Jack Murchie
• Brayden Williame
• Hymel Hunt
• Corey Allan
• Mitch Dunn
• Jamayne Tanuao-Brown
• Jordan Pereira
• Young Tonumaipea
• Jesse Arthars
• Albert Kelly

Not a list of "glorious" marquee players - but a lot of NRL talent in there

100%. You could build a very good first grade team with the amount of talent in NSW Cup at the moment.

There is PLENTY of talent... but we are lacking good coaches, but the cause of that is clubs. They are not letting coaches properly build out rosters and develop themselves as coaches.

 

[Bulldog_4_Life]

I've been a fan of the draft for years. Don't know why we don't use it.

Especially considering most teams are within hours of each other. You aren’t having many people relocate across the country.

You would need to negotiate with the RLPA and come to a financial agreement but everyone has their price.

 

[flamebouyant]

You watch the constant struggles of Wests Tigers, the Dragons and Bulldogs, not just last weekend but year after year, and you shake your head at how those clubs can be so consistently bad when other Sydney based teams like Rabbitohs, Panthers and Roosters are so consistently successful.

What a crock of shit. We have been a successful club for 40 years. It's just the past few that we have fallen apart. The Panfers, Rorters and Wabbits were also running dead last not so long ago.

 

[Taylforth]

NRL needs a radical shift to save the sport. Its just so boring. In this day and age you dont just need a good product on the field, but you need the spectacle off it.

1. Two Sydney teams need to be canned, and the comp needs to go back to 16 teams. You need to license a new club in Perth, and take the short term hit on it. There is a true appetite for sport there, I've seen it first hand and the silly argument people almost bring up is how it failed in the past, forgetting that the states population has almost doubled in that time. Tigers/Dragons would be the most vulnerable.


2. In my opinion it’s borderline idiotic that there isn’t an NRL draft. It would be the easiest way to bring more fans into the game. The excitement a draft generates is insane and the money that would follow would allow league to then increase the salary cap which would bring more players into the game. Obviously there would be a short term loss but in the long term the gains would be substantial.

You would have new talk shows anaylzing the draft picks, you'd have struggling sides having something to feel excited about, and you could create a proper connection between players and fans.

You could then reformat the NRL nines comp and that would be a way for the clubs to showcase their recently drafted players in a competition that would allow them to showcase their skill and generate excitement leading into the season.

If anything the NRL has the easiest path to a draft out of any sport in the world within its current format considering 65% of its teams reside within 1 hour of each other, and the whole comps is on the east coast, so you wouldn't require players relocating all that much.

Excellent point about a draft like AFL etc. Badly needed by NRL.
That’s how GWS got a leg up into the AFL comp several years back with several top draft picks allocated to them for a few early seasons. They were belted for a few years under Sheedy with such a young team. But in 12 seasons, they have since made the finals 4x since formation & GF 1x. Some current/recent stars came out of those early drafts. Not sure this would fit V’Landy’s master plan.

 

[Dogmonster]

100%. You could build a very good first grade team with the amount of talent in NSW Cup at the moment.

There is PLENTY of talent... but we are lacking good coaches, but the cause of that is clubs. They are not letting coaches properly build out rosters and develop themselves as coaches.

So spot on its refreshing to read.

 

[Como Dog]

AFL seems to have had some success with relocation. I remember being in South Melbourne one year when Swans were doing well (it was finals time I think), and Swans banners flag etc were everywhere. Brisbane Lions (nee Bears) crowds rival the Gronkos.

If you do it right, relocation can work, but it really needs both the "old" and "new" to embrace it. Bears (or Jets) and, say, Perth might be just be able to do that.

Think you hit the nail on the head with those examples as those clubs and supporters are looking for a way back in.

Can't see a current NRL club or its supporters embracing this though. AFL supporters in Melbourne are all in with their football support, often as a family and irrespective of their team it's every walk of life down there, all in while supporting their clubs.

 

[Dogs4eva13]

As some have said Jets or Norths to Perth is the answer then fans can feel like they are getting something rather than losing something. Benefit would also be either Easts or Cronulla would be fucked.

 

[Rodzilla]

Amalgation has not been successfull, re. Balmain+ western Suburbs, St George+ Illawara, with the passion our fans have it would be total disaster.
I believe that Realocation would be an even bigger failure, for 2 reasons
AFL fans are AFL fans as much as they are fans of their own club.
With the NRL the fans are much more fanatical about their club and much less for the game.

it has sometimes worked, for example the souths + nrl merger won the grand final in 2014

 

[Nasheed]

Nasheed here,
If it were me, I would merge Cronulla and the doggs together to create a Sutherland Bankstown belt and relocate the Dolphins to Perth.

 

[Nate DAWG]

Nasheed here,
If it were me, I would merge Cronulla and the doggs together to create a Sutherland Bankstown belt and relocate the Dolphins to Perth.

This is up there with some of the dumbest shit you’ve ever said bro. At least you are consistent

 

[Nasheed]

This is up there with some of the dumbest shit you’ve ever said bro. At least you are consistent

Why but?
When I think strategically I need to remove my bias to the club. I think it makes sense.

manly is needed for the northern side of Sydney. Parra too big and strong. Ditto Penrith. Tigers have the inner west and Campbelltown.

And not too upset you or anyone else here but I’d strongly think of removing the roosters, strategically they is redundant with south’s presence.

 

[Nasheed]

Thsi is how expansion should go in my opinion.
18th team. Perth.
Yallah this is a no brainer. Crowds. Big city. East coast expats. Time slot. Make it happens.

19th team. NZ2.
Thsi is needed to crate some real rivalry wit Auckland. Hopefully expands player pool too.

20th team. CC
This is a league region. It’s growing. It makes sense really as they been have a stadium in Gosford.

21st team. Hills District.
The fastest growing region in Sydney. Affluent and doubling every 5 years. Think Carlo to Richmond yo to Annangrove and wiseman’s.

22nd team. Adelaide.
They were pretty popular during super league and tis completes the national footprint.

23rd team. PNG.

This is where I t gets tricky. But if there’s a will and some taxation incentives then maybe it’ll be a success as it’ll be popular. Good luckattracting talent to a country ri with cannibalism.

24th team. Fiji.
Kinda fantasy at this point but I don’t see why not if we have 24 teams.

Beyond that we can doMelb 2.
I’d also advocate for tigers or us to move into the inner west and plug that hole.