News DEAN NOT PAYING OFF FOR BULLDOGS

[D- voice]

Poor old Deano is totally lost, he’s picking all the backs out of position trying to put square pegs in round holes and he has continued on with Hasslers work of running Tolman on every single 4th tackle no matter where we are on the field or attacking position

our only bright spot who could make breaks has been dropped for the last 2 weeks, our best forward can barely get on the field, JMK seems undroppable even though Cogger played 100% better (and was then banished) and we have an actual dummy half Katoa who can not get a run at all

we have an actual fullback in meany who isn’t allowed off the wing where he provides fuckall, he’s not the greatest full back but he can catch a bomb and our best attacking winger in years in smith is now being played as the comps worst centre

And don’t get me started on Napa

when Pay said he was going to bring the madness I never thought he meant it in regards to team selections

Be fair...
You have to give him time
3 more years and he will workout the difference between positions
I promise

 

[Thelaw]

People call our players lemons and pay has nothing to work with. Bullshit. We have kiwi reps, origin reps, and so on.
They have all just gone backwards under our coaching staff. Some still play rep football and perform well under better coaching than they do with us. We cant attract a hooker because pay tells them they will only be backup for jmk.
Only lemons pay has are the ones hes rolling around with numbers on them to decide who plays where each week.
Get us a fucking coach for fuck sake !

 

[Thelaw]

Well said!

 

[bradtalo]

Sometimes it's easier to stand out in a low performing team when not overshadowed by teammates. I read a few reports that Elliott was under strong consideration for a spot in the NSW team. Wonder if the journo would rather live in Canberra or near the beach in Sydney.

There's more statues of people than actual people in the Canberra CBD on a Saturday night. What a hole for a young fella

 

[khan]

Nathan Brown had a 26% win rate at the Knights (more than half a year with a competitive roster, almost one and a half years with Ponga and Pearce). That's worse than Pay's 34% win rate.

I couldn't tell you where we were expected to finish in 2018 (I do know we lost multiple players during the season) but I do know in 2019 we were tipped for the wooden spoon. We lost multiple players at the end of the 2018 season, the Morris brothers and Klemmer (not replaced). Even tho we were tipped for the wooden spoon in 2019 the team and Pay were able to finish 12th and three points outside the eight. From being tipped to finish wooden spooners that's an over achievement (not debatable). Even with this finish, due to no recruitment (nothing meaningful) and actually instead losing two players (CHN and Okunbor) who would of made the starting 13 we were tipped to come 15th in 2020. We also have to remember teams that under performed in 2019 still have a better roster on paper than us as well as other clubs recruiting (e.g. Tigers and Cowboys). To make things worse we lost two of our best and most influential players, Hopoate and Elliott (out for the season). This season is going as expected and the only thing we have to do (meet expectations) is avoid the wooden spoon (same as last year and why Pay was extended). We haven't been favourites to win any game we've played but we've come away with one win (the Dragons, who are better than us on paper).

Why have we scored an average of 14.1* points per game?

Our spine consists of Hopoate (injured), Foran, Wakeham and JMK. DWZ and Lewis have also been in the spine. That's one of the worst spines in the NRL. Foran has been injured for 1/3 of the NRL games played during his time at the club (on big money). JMK is possibly the worst starting hooker in the NRL. Good players = Hopoate and Foran. Wakeham on potential.

Does it get better in the backs? Meaney, Reimis, Montoya and Crichton. Hopoate has also been in the backs. Three of these players are reserve grade wingers (fullback is regards to Meaney). We're so weak in the centres we're forced to play two wingers there. I don't need to say anymore. That's one of the worst back lines in the NRL. Good players = Hopoate. Reimis on potential.

How about the forwards? Tolman, Napa, RFM, Jackson and Elliott (injured). Tolman and Napa are the worst front row pairing in the NRL. Elliott is the only forward on ability that would make another top eight teams roster. Thompson should be a massive boost but we're yet to see him play in the NRL and he's going to cancel out Elliott being injured. Good players = Elliott and Thompson(?).

Even with one of, if not, the worst rosters in the NRL. This year we've played well more games than not. Eels, Dragons, Sharks and Rabbitohs. If we just had a top hooker and centre alone we'd be at least 4/8 (7th-11th on the NRL ladder). Even tho we're 1/8 you can't question the teams effort. The players are playing for the coach and while we don't have a competitive roster that's the most important thing. No ones saying Pay's a super coach but he's done a terrific job overall with the roster and cards he's been dealt so unless a top coach is available he deserves at least one more year and a chance with a competitive roster.

Zzzzzzz.....

 

[khan]

Until we have a competitive roster the W/L column doesn't mean anything to me. The eye test is more important (subjective, but I'm obviously going to think I'm right).

Nathan Brown is a rebuild coach, so is Pay. Nathan Brown got one year with a competitive roster. Pay is yet to fail to meet expectations and overachieved last year.

We don't have the cattle. Picking Meaney (reserve grade fullback) at fullback doesn't change anything. That's the same with picking Katoa (reserve grade hooker) at hooker. We don't have players good enough to replace players in these positions. Averillo is a five-eighth/fullback and if reserve grade was going on he'd be developing in one of those positions there. Select any spine you want and it's one of the worst, if not, the worst in the NRL. I'm not saying Pay's selecting the team I 100% want but it's subjective. We also have an opinion from the outside (we're not at training). Nothing will change until we recruit top players.

I currently blame (in order): past board > current board > players > coach. This order will change next year.

Fkn zzzzzz...

 

[B-Train]

The title of the article is so creative..

 

[TwinTurbo]

Zzzzzzz.....

I know, it's hard, that post was full of big words like "potential", "meaningful", "expectations" and complex concepts like "over achieving", more than enough to send anyone to sleep.


Go Dogs

 

[khan]

If we're tipped to come 14th next year then recruitment was a fail. That's more of an issue with our current board. If we're predicted to finish 10th and Pay finishes 9th he's met expectations (tipped for the wooden spoon and finishing 12th is overachieving). I still think we'll be one of the most improved sides next year but that's mainly because of injection of talent into the roster and especially in key areas (e.g. hooker). I don't think there's any reason why we can't recruit players to make us a top eight roster. Until Pay fails to meet expectations unless a top coach is available it makes little to no sense to replace him.

Also regards to structure of play, this is a quote from Bennett's ("super coach") press conference, "They turned up, they tried really hard Canterbury... I've been watching a bit of video about them and they were very organised and knew what they were doing... you got to understand that they were playing pretty good Canterbury." We were the better "team" against the Rabbitohs last week but they just have more individual talent.

I am in awe of your posts, so much so you leave me with my jaw dropped.

 

[khan]

I know, it's hard, that post was full of big words like "potential", "meaningful", "expectations" and complex concepts like "over achieving", more than enough to send anyone to sleep.


Go Dogs

What do they mean by the way? I was falling asleep because i seen who posted it.

 

[Suave]

If we're tipped to come 14th next year then recruitment was a fail. That's more of an issue with our current board. If we're predicted to finish 10th and Pay finishes 9th he's met expectations (tipped for the wooden spoon and finishing 12th is overachieving). I still think we'll be one of the most improved sides next year but that's mainly because of injection of talent into the roster and especially in key areas (e.g. hooker). I don't think there's any reason why we can't recruit players to make us a top eight roster. Until Pay fails to meet expectations unless a top coach is available it makes little to no sense to replace him.

Also regards to structure of play, this is a quote from Bennett's ("super coach") press conference, "They turned up, they tried really hard Canterbury... I've been watching a bit of video about them and they were very organised and knew what they were doing... you got to understand that they were playing pretty good Canterbury." We were the better "team" against the Rabbitohs last week but they just have more individual talent.

But my point is since when do we rely on the media to set expectations for us? How many experts tipped us to come within 1 game of the grand final in 2009, 1 year after getting wooden spoon? Our standards as a club shouldn't change. Say we buy Cotric and Hastings for next season, is that enough for the experts to tip us for the 8? I can almost guarantee you they won't. We've been mediocre for a while. So if Pay coaches us to 10th place in that scenario he's met expectation?

I wouldn't put much stock into that Bennett quote. Rabbitohs were rubbish on the weekend. It's the old coaches trick of talk up the opposition to make it seem like your team is in better form than what they actually are. He's just trying to control the narrative around his team.

 

[TwinTurbo]

What do they mean by the way? I was falling asleep because i seen who posted it.

Enough said.

Go Dogs

 

[bradyk]

But my point is since when do we rely on the media to set expectations for us? How many experts tipped us to come within 1 game of the grand final in 2009, 1 year after getting wooden spoon? Our standards as a club shouldn't change. Say we buy Cotric and Hastings for next season, is that enough for the experts to tip us for the 8? I can almost guarantee you they won't. We've been mediocre for a while. So if Pay coaches us to 10th place in that scenario he's met expectation?

I wouldn't put much stock into that Bennett quote. Rabbitohs were rubbish on the weekend. It's the old coaches trick of talk up the opposition to make it seem like your team is in better form than what they actually are. He's just trying to control the narrative around his team.

No, but we have three million or thereabouts to spend. So we'll be getting more than Cotric and Hastings. I also look at where we're on the betting market (before a ball is kicked).

 

[GA45]

We have different expectations but I tend to think mine are more realistic. That's why our opinions are so far apart. I also said Pay has to avoid the wooden spoon but regardless we need to make a decision on who our coach for 2021 is now. From what I've seen so far I'm happy to extend Pay for one more year.

Yep he’s a great coach extend him immediately he’s overachieving. Don’t want to lose him

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

The whole Dean Pay has been hung out to dry narrative?

Well, he has to a degree.

But Pay also has to accept he’s had three years at the helm of Canterbury-Bankstown where he’s presided over a team with a win ratio of 33.9 per cent.

The Bulldogs finished 12th in 2018, 12th in 2019 and are currently running stone, motherless last.

In Pay’s first year at the helm he talked up a return to the Dogs of War style of football where the team would bludgeon in defence and then be mad in attack off the back of it.

The Bulldogs won eight out of 24 games that season, scoring 428 points at an average of 17.8 per game. They conceded 474 points to finish with a differential of minus 46.

In 2019, the Dogs won 10 of 24 games and scored only 326 points at an average of 13.6 per game – the worst attack in terms of points scored of all 16 clubs.

They conceded 474 points and finished with a differential of minus 151.

This year the Bulldogs have managed to score only 86 points in eight games at an average of 10.8 per game.

They’ve only won the one game.

Is that good enough for the Bulldogs to reward Pay with a new contract? The cold hard truth – no.

So as much as chair Lynne Anderson and CEO Andrew Hill are attempting to show loyalty to a champion Bulldogs premiership-winning player, it’s coming to an end.
Let’s go over the Bulldogs roster during Pay’s tenure and the notion the board has been making decisions over the top of him.

James Graham and Josh Reynolds were moved on by the Bulldogs previous board headed by Ray Dib.

Aaron Woods and Moses Mbye were released to rival clubs with the blessing of the coach.

When Pay wanted to bring Reynolds back to the club this year the Bulldogs were happy to entertain it until the devil in the detail was laid bare.

The Bulldogs needed to put Reynolds in their salary cap for this year at more than $400,000. It was the same again for next year.

Even Pay conceded it was not the right play. Get Reynolds for $150,000, great. Not $400,000.

Granted Pay has been dealt a rough hand of cards after being hired by the previous board and thrust front and centre in the middle of an ugly fight for control of Canterbury-Bankstown.

But he’s also had 56 NRL matches and two and a bit seasons to show what he’s got as a head coach.

As much as the Bulldogs are trying to show loyalty to one of their own, expect the club to head in a different direction next year.

BATTLE FOR RAIDERS FLYER
The tug-of-war between the Canberra Raiders and Canterbury-Bankstown for the signature of Nick Cotric is getting to the pointy end.

But the Green Machine local junior needs to factor in one very crucial element of the equation if he decides to shift to the Bulldogs.

As it sits right now Cotric is a NSW State of Origin and Australian winger who is collecting $30,000 per Origin appearance and $20,000 per Test match.

So there’s another $100,000 per season there.

Cotric needs to remember it’s infinitely harder to make representative teams from struggling sides.

The Bulldogs are currently 16th whereas the Raiders made last year’s grand final and are considered one of the NRL’s flagship clubs.

The Bulldogs plan to play Cotric in the centres and have offered him $600,000 per season. The smart money is on the Raiders.



Article for James Hooper fox sports

It's time for this club to say to Cotric this is our offer and it's non negotiable, also they need an answer now so we can be ready for next season or we can go after another player.
That's the problem with these players it's a straight up answer, you'll sign with us or not make your mind up and if the answer is delayed because of who will possibly be our coach then the board should make a decision on who'll be coaching here for next season, it's not rocket science and the longer the board delay the coaching decision the harder it will be to sign any decent player.
Talk about being up shit creek FFS!!

 

[bradyk]

It's time for this club to say to Cotric this is our offer and it's non negotiable, also they need an answer now so we can be ready for next season or we can go after another player.
That's the problem with these players it's a straight up answer, you'll sign with us or not make your mind up and if the answer is delayed because of who will possibly be our coach then the board should make a decision on who'll be coaching here for next season, it's not rocket science and the longer the board delay the coaching decision the harder it will be to sign any decent player.
Talk about being up shit creek FFS!!

You have a negotiation process. You obviously start lower than your max offer. When you get to your max offer you set a deadline. If the player still rejects then you have to move on to the next player (you'd be talking to multiple players at the same time). As long as the club realises they have to pay overs (but not overs on overs) we'll start signing players. We also need to make a decision if we're sticking with Pay or signing a top coach now. If a top coach isn't available then it's an easy decision.

 

[Nasheed]

It's time for this club to say to Cotric this is our offer and it's non negotiable, also they need an answer now so we can be ready for next season or we can go after another player.
That's the problem with these players it's a straight up answer, you'll sign with us or not make your mind up and if the answer is delayed because of who will possibly be our coach then the board should make a decision on who'll be coaching here for next season, it's not rocket science and the longer the board delay the coaching decision the harder it will be to sign any decent player.
Talk about being up shit creek FFS!!

Yes as a sales tactic sometimes that works, as the non desperation makes them realise it's a one in a million offer for real. Because at first he's thinking these guys want to suck up my arse and lick my semen but now they are surprised at the no sign and someone else will get it. Fomo thang.

 

[Blueandwhiteblood1968]

You have a negotiation process. You obviously start lower than your max offer. When you get to your max offer you set a deadline. If the player still rejects then you have to move on to the next player (you'd be talking to multiple players at the same time). As long as the club realises they have to pay overs (but not overs on overs) we'll start signing players. We also need to make a decision if we're sticking with Pay or signing a top coach now. If a top coach isn't available then it's an easy decision.

Pay needs to go but finding a replacement is the problem as a lot of other kennelers have said!!

 

[wendog33]

What a shocker he was..

And kept getting picked!

 

[Donkey Slayer]

Just a reminder to James Blooper...( I would like to reserve the naming rights )
The current board not only released your beloved tigers Mbye and Woods they also released the Morris brothers and Klemmer.
But promised us they will rebuild the team for 2021

I said when klemmer was pissing us off
To pay him more if it wasnt to much .... they go and sign Napa and sue haha joke