COVID-19 - Thread

[wendog33]

Yeah, it's a bit of a mixed bag. Omicron is less deadly but 2 doses provides no real protection against Omicron. Also the waning protection means that the 2 dose protection against Delta is dropping drastically. So fully vaccinated stats aren't going to be accurate any more.

The hope is that the death and ICU rates are primarily from Delta. Can't say for sure right now because that data isn't available yet. The data for NSW from November to January where we had very low deaths in hospital, but showed 3 deaths were Omicron compared to 9 that were Delta (with around 20 not sequenced)

So Omicron is definitely weaker but not harmless, and considering that they're now predicting around 90% of the cases are Omicron. My guess is that a majority of the deaths are probably Omicron. But if we had these case numbers with Delta then the deaths would be at least 3 times as high.

Fortunately natural immunity provides at least as much protection as vaccination so based on case numbers and predicted missed cases, most of NSW has probably been given a natural booster.

Yet we still see these kinds of numbers with narural or vax boosters?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

In respect to severity. In comparison to the vaccine, how different is natural immunity?

Vaccine effectiveness wears off around the 5 month mark.

Re transmission of the virus. Thats still up for debate with both natural immunity and vaccine i think. But the reality is, transmission is an inevitable.

Not 100% sure on the effectiveness of natural immunity vs vaccine immunity, but the latest meta-analysis of it printed in the Lancet says that natural immunity is at least as strong as vaccine immunity, and probably stronger than vaccine immunity (as long as you don't mind getting very sick and potentially dying)

Interestingly, the advice from the researchers to world governments is that they should treat confirmed infection the same as confirmed vaccination. Something Australia refuses to do.

 

[Dogna88]

How would your suggestion of segregating different sections of the population work?

I'm not for that at all.

I'm not for lockdowns at all.ni am for people making their own decisions.

Lockdowns in respect to the long battle with covid and preventing transmission, does not work.

But if your concern is icu and death numbers. Which you posted.

Who is ending up in icu and who is dying? Why lockdown an age group, medical class of people who arnt affected by getting covid (specifically omicron)

Transmission is an inevitable.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yet we still see these kinds of numbers with narural or vax boosters?

Yep. Important factor to note is that a lot of these deaths are a mix of unvaccinated, and people who's immunity is waning. The more it spreads in the community, the more natural immunity people will be exposed to.

Interesting thing is that in other countries where this has happened, case numbers drop drastically. That suggests that immunity reduces transmission more than we think.

 

[wendog33]

Not 100% sure on the effectiveness of natural immunity vs vaccine immunity, but the latest meta-analysis of it printed in the Lancet says that natural immunity is at least as strong as vaccine immunity, and probably stronger than vaccine immunity (as long as you don't mind getting very sick and potentially dying)

Interestingly, the advice from the researchers to world governments is that they should treat confirmed infection the same as confirmed vaccination. Something Australia refuses to do.

Why so much C19 in UK now then?

With their open up, let it rip , herd immunity policies primarily all the way through from the start from Boris, they are surely the most effective guinea pigs for natural immunity theory that can be assessed in a modern first world country?

Yet still getting slammed?

 

[wendog33]

I'm not for that at all.

I'm not for lockdowns at all.ni am for people making their own decisions.

Lockdowns in respect to the long battle with covid and preventing transmission, does not work.

But if your concern is icu and death numbers. Which you posted.

Who is ending up in icu and who is dying?

Transmission is an inevitable.

Nothing wrong with concern with ICU and death numbers.

 

[Dogna88]

Nothing wrong with concern with ICU and death numbers.

But what is wrong is painting every category of people with the same brush.

If its over 60s with health issues who end up dying and in ICU in high percentages for their catergory. They need to be the ones looked after.

Especially when (ill say it again). Transmission of covid (even future varients) is an inevitable.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Why so much C19 in UK now then?

With their open up, let it rip , herd immunity policies primarily all the way through from the start from Boris, they are surely the most effective guinea pigs for natural immunity theory that can be assessed in a modern first world country?

Yet still getting slammed?

UK went through a case peak of over 200k per day in December. The case numbers have been steadily dropping since then. Likely that it'll keep going down. They also haven't had a drastic increase in deaths like they did in the other waves.

 

[Natboy]

Also. Their age, other health issues and lifestyle choices.

The government looked at lockdowns/restrictions too one dimensional previously. Its time to stop painting everyone with the same brush.

If they can force people in different LGAs to lockdown. Is forcing people in differently age groups, health issues an option?

I have been double vaxxed, had the virus recently, am in my 30s, no health issues. In the "lock down scenario", why should i be treated the same as a 60 year old retiree with health issues who doesn't have school aged children and doesn't need to work.

Well that’s it. Let’s be real, all of these restrictions, lockdowns and the massive financial hit many have taken was to protect the elderly and vulnerable.

I personally initially got vaccinated to protect those people also. That was much before it was mandatory for many businesses and travel.

Most people in those groups also naturally take more responsibility and protect themselves as much as possible whereas others just whinge on Twitter and the kennel blaming everyone else except when it doesn’t suit them politically ie Annastacia Palaszczuk was incredible whilst “Domicron” #letitrip but now it’s all gone very very quiet that Queen Anna is #lettingitrip hahaha

 

[wendog33]

UK went through a case peak of over 200k per day in December. The case numbers have been steadily dropping since then. Likely that it'll keep going down. They also haven't had a drastic increase in deaths like they did in the other waves.

Yes realise this but their experience still doesn't suggest herd immunity works tho with huge % of population having been infected.

More data coming out now in UK of re-infection with Delta and Omicron.

Does that indicate more epidemic and not endemic?....at least for a long time yet?

 

[Dogna88]

"Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has announced the state’s international borders will finally be reopened for vaccinated Australian travellers.

From 1am on Saturday, January 22, the premier said fully vaccinated international travellers will be able to enter Queensland without quarantine. However, a rapid antigen test will be required within the first 24 hours."

 

[Natboy]

"Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has announced the state’s international borders will finally be reopened for vaccinated Australian travellers.

From 1am on Saturday, January 22, the premier said fully vaccinated international travellers will be able to enter Queensland without quarantine. However, a rapid antigen test will be required within the first 24 hours."

Good news for Queenslanders wanting to travel but with Queensland being a bit of a retirement home her let it rip approach won’t be popular with many

 

[KambahOne]

Have You seen that barrel of lard? You'd be fkn stupid to take health advice from that land whale.

He honestly thinks he's another trump, and he's close, tub of blubber, brain-dead, mail order bride, they do have some similarities.

 

[Birddog]

The government has made plenty of mistakes but there’s also a lot of us who want to get on with life, who are sick of being told to get vaccinated and we will be given our freedoms only for them to be taken away.

The biggest mistake in recent times was allowing freedoms for the unvaccinated. Gladys announced that way too early and Dom continued on with her policy to save face and to prevent a backlash.

I’ll happily compare Australia to the rest of the world and do every time I get asked here in Hawaii. People overseas think we are living in a concentration camp but I tell them many people like yourself are unhappy we were given too much freedom too early. You can imagine the reactions I get. It’s one of the reasons I’ve decided to stay here longer

I think you confuse being unhappy with too much freedom with sacrificing a little for the common good. Of course I'm not happy when in lockdown or having to wear masks etc, but I realise measures need to be taken. It's called social responsibility. We don't need lockdowns we need petridish to listen to health advice sooner and not be dragged into decision when to late.

Your attitude is selfish and entitled, how many people need to be hospitalised, how many in ICU and how many deaths need be so you can go to the pub etc without a mask. I lmao ridiculous.i live a free life with a few restrictions big deal to China.

One thing I am very happy about and that is that the entitled generation of today were not around during the great depression, during the wars, even the early struggle of building this country because we would all be fkd.

As for vaccinations if more people just rolled up and got the the bloody thing we qouldnt have to be constantly told.

 

[Birddog]

Interesting , the 18 yr old got covid double vaxxed he was fine ,when we called area health or whatever it was the lady was saying pretty much the only reason young kids will getting it done is to try to reduce the spread to the elderly which seems the vaccine in kids could be pointless, i dont know how true this is. Ill do what i done with me and book a double appointment with the doc and get him to explain it all to me very slowly .by then i dare say the kids will have already had covid so fucked if i know how it works.
Then ill bug the living shit out of a few docs i work for with the same questions

Personally think the booster is only a limited stop gap measure for adults as there isn't any alternative new updated vax available. Kids shouldn't be getting vaccinated with an outdated vaccine that is proving to be less effective for what they want the kids to have it for. Reduced transmission.
Until the vaccine is tweaked to cover Omicon more effectively then I can't see there being much to gain from the kids vax.

 

[Natboy]

I think you confuse being unhappy with too much freedom with sacrificing a little for the common good. Of course I'm not happy when in lockdown or having to wear masks etc, but I realise measures need to be taken. It's called social responsibility. We don't need lockdowns we need petridish to listen to health advice sooner and not be dragged into decision when to late.

Your attitude is selfish and entitled, how many people need to be hospitalised, how many in ICU and how many deaths need be so you can go to the pub etc without a mask. I lmao ridiculous.i live a free life with a few restrictions big deal to China.

One thing I am very happy about and that is that the entitled generation of today were not around during the great depression, during the wars, even the early struggle of building this country because we would all be fkd.

As for vaccinations if more people just rolled up and got the the bloody thing we qouldnt have to be constantly told.

That’s fine and you’re entitled to your opinion but which is it, person responsibility or requiring government mandates to tell us what to do?

I’m not selfish at all but we’d get to 100% vaccination and 1 covid death a month and some people would still lap up restrictions and call for lockdowns. I’m gathering you don’t own any businesses, work in the tourism industry or any other industry needing us to move on with life?

 

[Marki]

I'm no anti vaxxer by any stretch, but is it really worth getting children vaccinated?
If the vaccine doesn't stop transmission and kids aren't clogging up hospitals then why the need for vax?

Im with you on this.
Lost my battle with the wife who got my 9 year old son vaccinated today - even if he was kicking and screaming.

I see no benefit.
Once you start vaccinating kids for no benefit other than to protect the older generation i think you have your priorities fir the future all fucked up.

The stats dont lie, theres hardly any kids that remain in hospital for covid or in ICU. Many parents might buckle from fear and take them in for precautionary reasons but they get released straight away.

Whats worse is that im not convinced the current vaccines do anything against Omikron so its its a further reason to question its benefit whatsoever....

 

[Marki]

Yesterday ICU numbers 209 and 32 lives lost...todays ICU 217 so it means 40 new patients into ICU today? Good thing its only mild.

Apparently a major stat is the 3rd dose figure. Most protection doesnt kick in till booster due to waning vax efficacy after 6? months, so at only 28% 3rd vax, most people are not that protected and vax rate is misleading in that case as far as mass population protection is concerned with Omicron.

@Hacky McAxe your thoughts?

Im not convinced boosters or even original vaccine does anything against Omikron transmission. They were developed BEFORE Omikron and the strain can easily bypass the defences -hence high level of transnission.

It then has so many mutation markers that also bypass the vaccine protein triggers which means it may not even be helping people fight it off and its just the body fighting it all on its own.

Delta and original strains is where the vaccine was effective. Im very skeptical about the boosters.....

 

[Marki]

How many deaths and ICU patients had/have Delta? How many are fully vaccinated? I guess it’s no point speculating and constantly looking for negatives without those answers

Yep, until they start bringing these stats to light its all garbage and you can make an argument either way.

 

[Typical dog]

Im with you on this.
Lost my battle with the wife who got my 9 year old son vaccinated today - even if he was kicking and screaming.

I see no benefit.
Once you start vaccinating kids for no benefit other than to protect the older generation i think you have your priorities fir the future all fucked up.

The stats dont lie, theres hardly any kids that remain in hospital for covid or in ICU. Many parents might buckle from dear and take them in for precautionary reasons but they get released straight away.

Whats worse is that im not convinced the current vaccines do anything against Omikron so its its a further reason to question its benefit whatsoever....

The question I do want to know regarding the kids being vaxxed, how does it help the older generation? If the vaccine doesn't stop transmission then what does it matter if the kids are vaccinated?? If they are vaxxed they'll still pass it on.