Covid-19 related debates (argue in this thread only)

[KambahOne]

Ask yourself, you are the one that is happy to walk around with papers aha

 

[CaptainJackson]

 

[south of heaven]

Melbourne tradie sadly took his own life today due to the 2 week shut down of the construction industry in Melbourne due to Dictator Dan…. This is the real pandemic that no one is talking about…. So many people taking their lives due to these lockdowns, Government has blood on their hands

Do the protesters take any responsibility for their actions? Was the lockdown 2 weeks due to the protests or it was already coming?

 

[KambahOne]

‘Dark’ pro-vaccine advert fools anti-vaxxers

An “awesome” pro-vaccine advert with a dark message for anti-vaxxers has been praised after it fooled everyone.

www.news.com.au

An “awesome” pro-vaccine advert with a dark message for anti-vaxxers has been praised after it fooled everyone.
Photos from the US of a truck bearing a messaged that read, “Don’t get vaccinated,” began circulating on social media over the weekend.

At first glance the message appears to support the anti-vax movement.

But on further inspection, the name of “Wilmore Funeral Home” can be read underneath the message.

LMFAO.

 

[Brizdog]

Na, people just label you "anti-vaxer" or "conspiracy theorist".

People say you have no brains when you use your brain and ask questions.

Very true. Some questions need to be asked. I don't believe everything the government says and especially mainstream media.

 

[MatstaDogg]

Do the protesters take any responsibility for their actions? Was the lockdown 2 weeks due to the protests or it was already coming?

Because of them, so the news report on the radio said.

 

[south of heaven]

Because of them, so the news report on the radio said.

So atm there has been no official conformation of what his death was about it could of been multiple reasons?

 

[CaptainJackson]

I respect everyones decision to either get vaccinated or not vaccinated. I do however question making the vaccine mandatory. First of all a vaccine normally takes 5 to 10 years to be developed. This one has been rushed through. So i understand why some people might be worried.

Extra resources and money were thrown at making the vaccine for COVID19 which sped up the process. Also studies had already been under way for COVID type viruses and so there was a lot less research needed as some of the hard yards had already been done years ago. This is why there is a lab set up in Wuhan, to study these things and pre-empt pandemics across the world, this is also why pandemic planning exists.

But the main reason being is that extra money and resources were thrown at these vaccines hence they sped up the process. If you compare to normal vaccines and see their development stages and why they're delayed, when comparing to the COVID19 vaccine, it makes complete sense of why it was so quick when extra money and resources are pumped into the process.

Secondly I live in Queensland and we have nil cases. Why are we now being pressured to vaccinate more than ever if we are at zero cases (perhaps there is money involved here?

Thirdy if someone is fully vaccinated then why are they forcing others to take the vaccine if they already have full protection? Are they not sure that the vaccine works in that case? Once again respect everyones decision but just have questions about this.

Answer goes together for these questions.

Vaccines are not 100%, no one has ever said vaccines are 100%. Also a vaccinated person can still be a carrier of coronavirus and still be contagious to others but what the vaccine does greatly reduce is the statistical chance for you to get seriously ill or die.

Hence even if Qld is at zero cases, this means, in future, when QLD opens up it's borders, there is a high possibility that (pretty much certain) that coronavirus will make it's way through the QLD population and you will no longer be at 0 cases. This is why the 70-80% targets are being preached, to help reduce the risk of infection and also to keep infections at a manageable level for our hospitals to operate normally (normally being the hospital system not being overburdened so they have the ability to treat other patients with other diseases as well as infected coronovirus patients)

 

[Greenmachine121]

Ask yourself, you are the one that is happy to walk around with papers aha

I’m gonna go get the papers get the papers

 

[Brizdog]

Extra resources and money were thrown at making the vaccine for COVID19 which sped up the process. Also studies had already been under way for COVID type viruses and so there was a lot less research needed as some of the hard yards had already been done years ago. This is why there is a lab set up in Wuhan, to study these things and pre-empt pandemics across the world, this is also why pandemic planning exists.

But the main reason being is that extra money and resources were thrown at these vaccines hence they sped up the process. If you compare to normal vaccines and see their development stages and why they're delayed, when comparing to the COVID19 vaccine, it makes complete sense of why it was so quick when extra money and resources are pumped into the process.



Answer goes together for these questions.

Vaccines are not 100%, no one has ever said vaccines are 100%. Also a vaccinated person can still be a carrier of coronavirus and still be contagious to others but what the vaccine does greatly reduce is the statistical chance for you to get seriously ill or die.

Hence even if Qld is at zero cases, this means, in future, when QLD opens up it's borders, there is a high possibility that (pretty much certain) that coronavirus will make it's way through the QLD population and you will no longer be at 0 cases. This is why the 70-80% targets are being preached, to help reduce the risk of infection and also to keep infections at a manageable level for our hospitals to operate normally (normally being the hospital system not being overburdened so they have the ability to treat other patients with other diseases as well as infected coronovirus patients)

Very good answer. You make very good points. Do you think it should up to the individual to assess their own risk level and do you agree with making it mandatory? It may take a few years before we find out if there are any side effects like any drug. More time is still needed for any side effects to come out. Also as the virus keeps changing, what is to say that the current shot will be effective if there virus is constantly mutating.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Do you think it should up to the individual to assess their own risk level and do you agree with making it mandatory?

We currently have laws that some people don't agree with but are enacted laws for the betterment of the collective. So firstly, I'd like to point out this notion of "freedom", "free rights", etc is a bullshit notion because it actually doesn't exist right now with other things.

Secondly, I am double vaccinated, I do not want to run the risk of congregating with people who are unvaccinated, as they have a greater potential to spread the virus to people such as myself and as a result I do not wish to be carrier of the virus and potentially pass it on to someone with an immuno-compromised system, thereby causing great harm to said person.

Essentially I'm saying people who've been vaccinated have rights too and if we're looking out for the greater good, we have a right to request from employers that we're protected at work and WH&S measures meet our needs for being employed. over 80% vaccinated, we are by far the majority.

Same goes for restuarants/pubs/bars/etc, as a consumer I want them to care for my well being otherwise I will simply take my business elsewhere and again vaccinated people are the vast majority.

Alternatively a restaurant/pub/bar may choose to allow unvaccinated people but then they run the risk of their establishment being a location which spreads coronovirus (remember coronovirus isn't going away), so naturally it would be my expectation that the media would report this and consumers would stay away for their own safety/health.

It may take a few years before we find out if there are any side effects like any drug. More time is still needed for any side effects to come out.

Side effects don't work that way for vaccines. Long term side effects are expected to show within 6 months.

Also as the virus keeps changing, what is to say that the current shot will be effective if there virus is constantly mutating.

Absolutely nothing! Completely agree with you.

However, if we can limit how many people the virus infects (through vaccines) then we also limit the chance of a mutation. But the greater amount the people it infects, the greater chance of mutation. This new mutation could either be more infectious, less infectious, more deadly, less deadly.

But it's about reducing the chance, the less people infected the less chance of a mutation.

 

[Greenmachine121]

Very sad to hear about that bloke who killed himself …. Terrible stuff

 

[Brizdog]

We currently have laws that some people don't agree with but are enacted laws for the betterment of the collective. So firstly, I'd like to point out this notion of "freedom", "free rights", etc is a bullshit notion because it actually doesn't exist right now with other things.

Secondly, I am double vaccinated, I do not want to run the risk of congregating with people who are unvaccinated, as they have a greater potential to spread the virus to people such as myself and as a result I do not wish to be carrier of the virus and potentially pass it on to someone with an immuno-compromised system, thereby causing great harm to said person.

Essentially I'm saying people who've been vaccinated have rights too and if we're looking out for the greater good, we have a right to request from employers that we're protected at work and WH&S measures meet our needs for being employed. over 80% vaccinated, we are by far the majority.

Same goes for restuarants/pubs/bars/etc, as a consumer I want them to care for my well being otherwise I will simply take my business elsewhere and again vaccinated people are the vast majority.

Alternatively a restaurant/pub/bar may choose to allow unvaccinated people but then they run the risk of their establishment being a location which spreads coronovirus (remember coronovirus isn't going away), so naturally it would be my expectation that the media would report this and consumers would stay away for their own safety/health.


Side effects don't work that way for vaccines. Long term side effects are expected to show within 6 months.



Absolutely nothing! Completely agree with you.

However, if we can limit how many people the virus infects (through vaccines) then we also limit the chance of a mutation. But the greater amount the people it infects, the greater chance of mutation. This new mutation could either be more infectious, less infectious, more deadly, less deadly.

But it's about reducing the chance, the less people infected the less chance of a mutation.

Same goes for restuarants/pubs/bars/etc, as a consumer I want them to care for my well being otherwise I will simply take my business elsewhere and again vaccinated people are the vast majority.

You are fully vaccinated which greatly reduces your risks already. What is the point of being vaccinated if your worried after taking the vaccine.

But it's about reducing the chance, the less people infected the less chance of a mutation.

But the vaccine does not stop people being infected. It supposed to stop the severity right?

But otherwise i see your points of view.

 

[CaptainJackson]

You are fully vaccinated which greatly reduces your risks already. What is the point of being vaccinated if your worried after taking the vaccine.

I'm not overly concerned for myself. I am concerned that I could be a carrier and pass it onto an old person which has a larger potential that it's going to be more serious for an old person. An old person may be double vaccinated but because as we age, our immune system naturally weakens, that vaccine may not be enough to stop that older person from becoming seriously ill and potentially dying.

But not just old people, there are others who have legitimate health reasons as to why they can't take the vaccination, I do not wish to pass it on to them and compromise their lives.

Then we also have kids between 0 and 11 who haven't been approved for the vaccine yet and the risk that those children could get long covid (where the symptoms remain with no end in sight).

My reasons are for my old parents, children in general, i.e. for the greater good.

But the vaccine does not stop people being infected. It supposed to stop the severity right?

By getting the vaccine you build up anti-bodies to the virus. If someone who has coronavirus speaks close to me and I breathe in that air, there will naturally be an unavoidable stage where I'm carrying the virus in some way, shape or form. But then it is the reaction of my body and anti-bodies, which determines the viral load of the virus I have (i.e. how quickly the virus replicates in me) and as a consequence determines how contagious I am to others.

So I could actually not be contagious at all by having had the vaccine or there could be a very short period where I am contagious.

 

[Brizdog]

I'm not overly concerned for myself. I am concerned that I could be a carrier and pass it onto an old person which has a larger potential that it's going to be more serious for an old person. An old person may be double vaccinated but because as we age, our immune system naturally weakens, that vaccine may not be enough to stop that older person from becoming seriously ill and potentially dying.

But not just old people, there are others who have legitimate health reasons as to why they can't take the vaccination, I do not wish to pass it on to them and compromise their lives.

Then we also have kids between 0 and 11 who haven't been approved for the vaccine yet and the risk that those children could get long covid (where the symptoms remain with no end in sight).

My reasons are for my old parents, children in general, i.e. for the greater good.



By getting the vaccine you build up anti-bodies to the virus. If someone who has coronavirus speaks close to me and I breathe in that air, there will naturally be an unavoidable stage where I'm carrying the virus in some way, shape or form. But then it is the reaction of my body and anti-bodies, which determines the viral load of the virus I have (i.e. how quickly the virus replicates in me) and as a consequence determines how contagious I am to others.

So I could actually not be contagious at all by having had the vaccine or there could be a very short period where I am contagious.

Getting covid which has a survival rate of above 97% in Aus also is a way to build up antibodies, just saying. I know many people who have had covid and been unvaccinated and are totally fine. Not saying going out and get covid by any means. Also there are many instances where fully vaccinated people have died from the virus still. I respect everyone at the end of the day. I think that the approach taken in Australia to be extreme and many people have lost everything. Also vaccine should still be a choice at the end of the day.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

I respect everyones decision to either get vaccinated or not vaccinated. I do however question making the vaccine mandatory. First of all a vaccine normally takes 5 to 10 years to be developed. This one has been rushed through. So i understand why some people might be worried.

Secondly I live in Queensland and we have nil cases. Why are we now being pressured to vaccinate more than ever if we are at zero cases (perhaps there is money involved here?

Thirdy if someone is fully vaccinated then why are they forcing others to take the vaccine if they already have full protection? Are they not sure that the vaccine works in that case? Once again respect everyones decision but just have questions about this.

I too am for choice.
Live in QLD so I hear you about case numbers here.
Everyone's situation is different.
I looked at trends in other states here in Australia last 18 months or whatever its been.
Tried to remain open before making a decision whether to get vaxxed or not.
Didnt want the fear mongering by media and poli's, anti vax verse vax bullshit etc. to cloud my decision.

 

[Realist90]

i have a feeling you are going to find something wrong with any of the 60 studies that i bring up or the data from areas that have used it and succeeded

the burden of proof also applies to the media and experts who have claimed it doesn't work and have banned it in australia, you are acting like this is a process and its open but the media and the authority figures have shown that the decision is already made

i also have a problem with how subjective these studies are, they can decide that any study is biased because it has favorable results toward ivermectin, suppose that ivermectin works 100% to stop covid, all the studies show that it works, they can stop it and not confirm the study because they think it is biased towards ivermectin?, keep in mind that anybody who finds that ivermectin works should be excited and should try to push it on everyone

Since when did you become based?

 

[Brizdog]

I too am for choice.
Live in QLD so I hear you about case numbers here.
Everyone's situation is different.
I looked at trends in other states here in Australia last 18 months or whatever its been.
Tried to remain open before making a decision whether to get vaxxed or not.
Didnt want the fear mongering by media and poli's, anti vax verse vax bullshit etc. to cloud my decision.

Good man. I respect everyones decision.

 

[CaptainJackson]

@Brizdog

How COVID-19 vaccines were made so quickly without cutting corners

Usually it takes years to get both test results and FDA authorization, but speedy spread of the virus and eager volunteers shrunk the shots’ timeline.

www.sciencenews.org

 

[Brizdog]

@Brizdog

How COVID-19 vaccines were made so quickly without cutting corners

Usually it takes years to get both test results and FDA authorization, but speedy spread of the virus and eager volunteers shrunk the shots’ timeline.

www.sciencenews.org

Yes i got that point. One question why is the FDA funded by companies it regulates. To me that is a huge conflict of interest.