Covid-19 related debates (argue in this thread only)

[DinkumDog]

I have to ask though.. Do you work for Merck?

You are really pushing people to buy something that is basically snake oil, or a sugar pill. So surely you must work for Merck.

@Rodshilla
Now we know why so critical of Pfizer…

 

[Mr Beast]

Thread title should be Hacky vs Rod thread.

I’m a punter

 

[Rodzilla]

ok so number 2 we have a study from the zagazig university wherever the f that is in egypt where they gave ivermectin to close contacts of covid cases, 15/203 got covid and 1 got severe symptoms compared to 59/101 in the control group and 7 of them severe

so ivermectin is winning!

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Theres no doubt that if I hadn't prayed to baby Jesus last night, you would have been struck by lightning today....

See? I can make unfalsifiable claims too.

Source on 0.1% mortality for flu? Abs says 4124 flu/pneumonia deaths in 2019. Googl not showing relevant results on this one obviously, just a bunch of corona shit.

I'm not "pushing" any kind of agenda and resent the accusation. How would you like it if I accused you of cynically exploiting covid deaths to serve a vax and lockdown agenda? I wouldn't do that because i'm right and therefore have no reason to resort to bad faith tactics like impugning my interlocutors motivations.

281 people have died in the last 365 days with covid. 3318 people killed themselves in 2019. Mean age of death is 43, about half that of covid. Suicide is objectively 12× deadlier than covid. Suicide (as i'm sure you know) was already trending up at a rate of 5% a year over the preceding decade, meaning 2021 was on track for ~3650.

The fat morons running this shitshow are exaccerbating an objectively bigger problem to reduce a smaller one. The same thing for locking people down. 2/3 of the country are oberweight or obese, heart disease is a runaway as the biggest killer in the country. 18k died of Ischaemic heart disease alone in 2019, but instead of tackling that, these dickheads are telling everyone to stay at home and get uber eats to deliver KFC every night, lest they catch a virus that killed 281 people in the last 365 days....

8821 people die of lung cancer in 2019. Ban smokes? No.
281 people die of covid. Destroy everyones quality of life, jobs, ruin economy. Duh! Ofc!

If scummo et al were truly interested in improving public health there would be about 100 things you could do that would have more benefit for less pain.

That 0.1% was a rough estimate based on CDC data.

For example, the CDC data from the following years on Influenza case fatality rate shows:

2017-2018 - 0.136%
2018-2019 - 0.094%
2019-2020 - 0.058%

This is in comparison to the CDC case fatality rate of Covid-19 in the USA which is:

1.6%

Of course that's just the US and it varies by country. For comparison, Yemen has a Covid-19 case fatality rate of 18.8%. Peru is 9.2%. On the other end of the scale you have Laos, Bhutan and Singapore with a CFR of 0.1%

Australia has a CFR of 1.5% but that's based on Alpha variant. It's too early to calculate the CFR of Delta for Australia.

All that aside, there is "No doubt" that if we didn't have vaccination and lockdown then the hospital system would have struggled and deaths would have been higher. That's not based on guess work, that's based on data coming from other countries who have struggled.

I should also point out that comparison to other causes of death in Australia while using preventative measures (lockdowns, vaccines, mask use) is like saying that drinking arsenic isn't dangerous because more people die of heart disease.

In regard to the suicide rate, I don't mean to acuse you personally of pushing an agenda but I have seen many people say that stat. "9 people commit suicide per day". As I said, I work with Lifeline and am well aware of that stat as it was Pre-lockdown.

As I said. I fully expect that number to be higher due to lockdown related suicide, but pushing that "9 deaths per day" to criticise lockdown is dishonest because it has nothing to do with lockdown. You can get all defensive and righteous if you like but that stat literally has nothing to do with lockdown, so you either were unaware of that, or you were using it to push an agenda when you said, "Meanwhile, 9 people a day kill themselves. Dont know how anyone can justify this bullshit in their heads."

If it's the former then I apologise.

 

[The DoggFather]

@Rodzilla

 

[Hacky McAxe]

ok so number 2 we have a study from the zagazig university wherever the f that is in egypt where they gave ivermectin to close contacts of covid cases, 15/203 got covid and 1 got severe symptoms compared to 59/101 in the control group and 7 of them severe

so ivermectin is winning!

How did that go in peer review?

See if you can find the peer review for it. I'll help you out a little. It never passed peer review and was never officially published in a journal.

 

[DinkumDog]

so ivermectin is winning!

Like your Lotto numbers?
OK .

 

[The DoggFather]

That 0.1% was a rough estimate based on CDC data.

For example, the CDC data from the following years on Influenza case fatality rate shows:

2017-2018 - 0.136%
2018-2019 - 0.094%
2019-2020 - 0.058%

This is in comparison to the CDC case fatality rate of Covid-19 in the USA which is:

1.6%

Of course that's just the US and it varies by country. For comparison, Yemen has a Covid-19 case fatality rate of 18.8%. Peru is 9.2%. On the other end of the scale you have Laos, Bhutan and Singapore with a CFR of 0.1%

Australia has a CFR of 1.5% but that's based on Alpha variant. It's too early to calculate the CFR of Delta for Australia.

All that aside, there is "No doubt" that if we didn't have vaccination and lockdown then the hospital system would have struggled and deaths would have been higher. That's not based on guess work, that's based on data coming from other countries who have struggled.

I should also point out that comparison to other causes of death in Australia while using preventative measures (lockdowns, vaccines, mask use) is like saying that drinking arsenic isn't dangerous because more people die of heart disease.

In regard to the suicide rate, I don't mean to acuse you personally of pushing an agenda but I have seen many people say that stat. "9 people commit suicide per day". As I said, I work with Lifeline and am well aware of that stat as it was Pre-lockdown.

As I said. I fully expect that number to be higher due to lockdown related suicide, but pushing that "9 deaths per day" to criticise lockdown is dishonest because it has nothing to do with lockdown. You can get all defensive and righteous if you like but that stat literally has nothing to do with lockdown, so you either were unaware of that, or you were using it to push an agenda when you said, "Meanwhile, 9 people a day kill themselves. Dont know how anyone can justify this bullshit in their heads."

If it's the former then I apologise.

Why are the suicide stats so delayed?

 

[SoulCrusher]

That 0.1% was a rough estimate based on CDC data.

For example, the CDC data from the following years on Influenza case fatality rate shows:

2017-2018 - 0.136%
2018-2019 - 0.094%
2019-2020 - 0.058%

This is in comparison to the CDC case fatality rate of Covid-19 in the USA which is:

1.6%

Of course that's just the US and it varies by country. For comparison, Yemen has a Covid-19 case fatality rate of 18.8%. Peru is 9.2%. On the other end of the scale you have Laos, Bhutan and Singapore with a CFR of 0.1%

Australia has a CFR of 1.5% but that's based on Alpha variant. It's too early to calculate the CFR of Delta for Australia.

All that aside, there is "No doubt" that if we didn't have vaccination and lockdown then the hospital system would have struggled and deaths would have been higher. That's not based on guess work, that's based on data coming from other countries who have struggled.

I should also point out that comparison to other causes of death in Australia while using preventative measures (lockdowns, vaccines, mask use) is like saying that drinking arsenic isn't dangerous because more people die of heart disease.

In regard to the suicide rate, I don't mean to acuse you personally of pushing an agenda but I have seen many people say that stat. "9 people commit suicide per day". As I said, I work with Lifeline and am well aware of that stat as it was Pre-lockdown.

As I said. I fully expect that number to be higher due to lockdown related suicide, but pushing that "9 deaths per day" to criticise lockdown is dishonest because it has nothing to do with lockdown. You can get all defensive and righteous if you like but that stat literally has nothing to do with lockdown, so you either were unaware of that, or you were using it to push an agenda when you said, "Meanwhile, 9 people a day kill themselves. Dont know how anyone can justify this bullshit in their heads."

If it's the former then I apologise.

I reject your assertion that lockdowns etc. "No doubt" prevented higher death and struggling hospitals. Sweden didn't lockdown, did better than a lot of countries, worse than others. Its hospitals didn't struggle, bodies did not pile up in the streets.

The reason that im pointing out other causes of death is to illustrate that the government doesn't do shit about all of these much greater causes of mortality, but has gone apeshit over a gay virus that kills 0.5% of those infected at a rate of 0.7 people a day. They could do some far less draconian, such as ban all smoking products and have a much greater effect on reducing the national mortality as lung cancer kills 24 Aussies a day. 10 Aussies a day die of accidental falls, we could save more lives by doing something as simple as mandating handrails and grip mats in every shower, but instead we force people to cover their faces in public and get injected with powerful drugs.

It is simply illogical to beleive that the aim of all of these measures is a reduction of excess mortality, which is their stated aim.

Also your arsenic analogy couldn't have a worse theme. Vaxers are the ones putting potentially harmful chemicals ion their body bro.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Why are the suicide stats so delayed?

Gotta be real sure it was suicide and not murder, accidental OD, accidental fall etc. Coroners reports take time, then you gotta compile all the data.

 

[Greenmachine121]

There is no clinical evidence to support its use to prevent or cure Covid , in fact many people have gotten extremely ill from using it .

 

[The DoggFather]

Gotta be real sure it was suicide and not murder, accidental OD, accidental fall etc. Coroners reports take time, then you gotta compile all the data.

Its sad, but it makes sense.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Why are the suicide stats so delayed?

All national stats are. There's just way too many factors to collate before you can get accurate statistics.

 

[Rodzilla]

How did that go in peer review?

See if you can find the peer review for it. I'll help you out a little. It never passed peer review and was never officially published in a journal.

i think it was published in the journal of clinical and diagnostic research

but lets go to the number 3, chahla study from argentina of 117 healthcare workers taking ivermectin with carrageenan, 4 people got covid compared to 25 and 0 moderate/severe cases compared to the 10

thats 84.0% and 95.2% reductions

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I reject your assertion that lockdowns etc. "No doubt" prevented higher death and struggling hospitals. Sweden didn't lockdown, did better than a lot of countries, worse than others. Its hospitals didn't struggle, bodies did not pile up in the streets.

You don't think preventing spread lowered the amount of deaths and hospital pressure?

Sweden has half the population of Australia and they had nearly 15,000 deaths. To this date, Australia has just over 1,000 deaths. If we followed Sweden's model and had the same death rate, we would be looking at around 30,000 Australian deaths. Of course there's a lot of other factors that come into it. It's never one to one, but minimum we would be looking at 20,000 deaths.

The "Sweden no lockdown" thing is also a bit of a falsehood. They didn't have a lockdown anywhere near as bad as us, but they closed schools and Universities. Restrictions were put in place to limit the number of people allowed in a building at a time. Limits to the number of people allowed on buses and trains. Travel bans.

Even now after they have lifted most of their restrictions, they still don't allow most people to enter the country. They still restrict indoor dining to a maximum of 8 people per restaurant.

And even after everything, Sweden's epidemologists admitted that they messed up at the start resulting in a large amount of deaths.

The reason that im pointing out other causes of death is to illustrate that the government doesn't do shit about all of these much greater causes of mortality, but has gone apeshit over a gay virus that kills 0.5% of those infected at a rate of 0.7 people a day. They could do some far less draconian, such as ban all smoking products and have a much greater effect on reducing the national mortality as lung cancer kills 24 Aussies a day. 10 Aussies a day die of accidental falls, we could save more lives by doing something as simple as mandating handrails and grip mats in every shower, but instead we force people to cover their faces in public and get injected with powerful drugs.

I agree that they could. But as I said, this is more about a clear and present danger that can be addressed and that will lead to pressure on the hospital system. And when that happens, it makes it more difficult for other people to get treatment.

It is simply illogical to beleive that the aim of all of these measures is a reduction of excess mortality, which is their stated aim.

Also your arsenic analogy couldn't have a worse theme. Vaxers are the ones putting potentially harmful chemicals ion their body bro.

Rubbish and fear mongering.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

i think it was published in the journal of clinical and diagnostic research

but lets go to the number 3, chahla study from argentina of 117 healthcare workers taking ivermectin with carrageenan, 4 people got covid compared to 25 and 0 moderate/severe cases compared to the 10

thats 84.0% and 95.2% reductions

Shows some promise but small sample size, not peer reviewed, and probably unrelated but the lead author is a gynecologist who only has 3 papers printed. All on Ivermectin and none of which have passed peer review. Where is her vagina research?

 

[maroondog72]

I have stayed away from these covid threads because most of the players have nfi what they are talking about, I would like to say this however, anyone that does not get vaccinated is a moron.

 

[maroondog72]

Shows some promise but small sample size, not peer reviewed, and probably unrelated but the lead author is a gynecologist who only has 3 papers printed. All on Ivermectin and none of which have passed peer review. Where is her vagina research?

I am also a gynecologist ........no experience but I'll have a look

 

[N4TE]

I have stayed away from these covid threads because most of the players have nfi what they are talking about, I would like to say this however, anyone that does not get vaccinated is a moron.

My work is making it mandatory now so if people like that or not it’s up to them but you won’t be getting work as a contractor on our sites. And if you want to talk about choice yes if you choose to creat your own successful property empire and you don’t care if people are vaccinated or not then go do that but my boss has done this already and he has decided that it is best for his business to make it that if you haven’t been vaccinated (obviously apart from a medical exemption) then find work somewhere else.

 

[DinkumDog]

I don’t get the comparison to ‘banning smoking’. Consumption of drugs like tobacco and alcohol largely are by choice (leaving aside those who become addicted). Catching an airborne virus is not a choice.

Second, by banning those products all you’re doing is creating a black market - at least regulate and tax them highly, which they are. Odd comparison.