Coronavirus.

[Wolfmother]

It surprises me to still see the debate about masks ..
Its a simple concept to understand.. If used and fitted correctly it works in shielding droplets from entering and exiting the mask

 

[Wolfmother]

 

[Wolfmother]

Just a bit more about covid. It's killed 3 of our family members in Scotland. They were my husband's aunty and uncle and a cousin who have all had influenza several times over and survived yet copped the Rona once and died. Very sad

 

[Dawgfather]

Yep. But without research this means absolutely nothing because there are hundreds of other variables to account for. Like population density, exposure levels, cluster density, public adherence to name a few.

Taking two examples and trying to suggest that the data reflects every situation based on a single variable. That's never going to work.

That's why proper scientific research is needed with proper controls and accounting for all variables. Otherwise it's just guess work.

This is why the meta-analysis is important as it's an analysis of all available data. But the meta-analysis then needs to be peer reviewed to ensure the team of researchers didn't make errors. This is also why a non-peer reviewed blog by a single ex-professor of physics doesn't hold the same kind of weight as a meta-analysis by a team of researchers that has been thoroughly peer reviewed and printed in a prestigious medical journal. Especially when it comes to medical and epidemiological research.

This is the scientific process and it's important.

TLDR; correlation does not equal causation

Even if you take Montana on its own. Their mask mandate did not reduce infections, and in fact their infections are now trending even higher despite masks.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Even if you take Montana on its own. Their mask mandate did not reduce infections, and in fact their infections are now trending even higher despite masks.

As I said. Too many variables to say that for sure. It's possible but without research you can't confirm the kind of effect the mask mandate had.

It's possible that it could have been much higher without a mask mandate.

 

[Dawgfather]

As I said. Too many variables to say that for sure. It's possible but without research you can't confirm the kind of effect the mask mandate had.

It's possible that it could have been much higher without a mask mandate.

But that doesn’t square with many messages out there about masks. Namely that they stop the spread of the virus and save lives.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

But that doesn’t square with many messages out there about masks. Namely that they stop the spread of the virus and save lives.

Because that's what the research says.

I'm not sure I can explain it any clearer. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Comparing two different cities without proper research is pointless and it certainly doesn't Trump the actual research any more than anti-vaxxers Trump actual medical vaccine research with their googling.

 

[The DoggFather]

It surprises me to still see the debate about masks ..
Its a simple concept to understand.. If used and fitted correctly it works in shielding droplets from entering and exiting the mask

Na, Trump is the president and you're just a nurse, what would you know....

 

[Wolfmother]

Na, Trump is the president and you're just a nurse, what would you know....

haha ...this is so true , sarcastic but true

 

[wendog33]

haha ...this is so true , sarcastic but true

Maybe when Trump finally gets his lobotomy, his surgeons won't have to wear a mask? They don't work....so....

 

[Psycho Doggie]

View attachment 17987

This stat is absolutely astounding. Inarguable.

 

[wendog33]

Ok I'll take one for the team and be the bunny....

Can someone pls explain to us dumber members of TK, who need someone to fully detail what the big and little blue graphs mean, precisely, in relation to C19 (or not) or flu (or not) what co-affect, apart from the obvious 2020 reduced figure?

 

[Wolfmother]

This stat is absolutely astounding. Inarguable.

Haha not sure if you're being sarcastic or not because it's just one I came across in images on Google... but I do believe it to be true from just listening out.
There's so much to draw from this,
Firstly it seems to visibly back the claim that covid has a higher transmission rate than influena.
Secondly the wearing of masks, social distancing, lock down etc are effective methods in reducing transmission..

 

[Wolfmother]

Ok I'll take one for the team and be the bunny....

Can someone pls explain to us dumber members of TK, who need someone to fully detail what the big and little blue graphs mean, precisely, in relation to C19 (or not) or flu (or not) what co-affect, apart from the obvious 2020 reduced figure?

There has been a 96% drop in influenza cases from 2019 to 2020..
In 2019 nobody was forced to wear masks, sanitise,self isolate, social distance etc but in 2020 they were meaning the 96% drop is attributable to this and can be considered effective in stopping or slowing down transmission of viruses.. I put the graph up because of the debate that mask wearing is futile..

 

[Dawgfather]

Because that's what the research says.

I'm not sure I can explain it any clearer. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Comparing two different cities without proper research is pointless and it certainly doesn't Trump the actual research any more than anti-vaxxers Trump actual medical vaccine research with their googling.

I’m saying there are multiple places in the world that have mandated masks but also had infection counts increase.

how can it be possible the masks are so effective if there are multiple places that mandated masks but didn’t have infection counts decrease.

 

[wendog33]

There has been a 96% drop in influenza cases from 2019 to 2020..
In 2019 nobody was forced to wear masks, sanitise,self isolate, social distance etc but in 2020 they were meaning the 96% drop is attributable to this and can be considered effective in stopping or slowing down transmission of viruses.. I put the graph up because of the debate that mask wearing is futile..

Thanks Wolfie.

I just wasn't sure if there were other factors at play like C19 to affect those figures

 

[wendog33]

I’m saying there are multiple places in the world that have mandated masks but also had infection counts increase.

how can it be possible the masks are so effective if there are multiple places that mandated masks but didn’t have infection counts decrease.

Have you allowed for the infection rate take up of up to 4 weeks in some cases?

 

[Dawgfather]

Have you allowed for the infection rate take up of up to 4 weeks in some cases?

Yes. There are many examples of mask wearing that haven’t had the intended effect.

In the cases where infections dropped, It’s also difficult to determine whether it was because of masks or other measures also implemented.

 

[Dawgfather]

That is before you go through the places in the world that never mandated masks and infection counts dropped.

Sydney and Sweden are two off the top of my head.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Haha not sure if you're being sarcastic or not because it's just one I came across in images on Google... but I do believe it to be true from just listening out.
There's so much to draw from this,
Firstly it seems to visibly back the claim that covid has a higher transmission rate than influena.
Secondly the wearing of masks, social distancing, lock down etc are effective methods in reducing transmission..

As a stat it matches what is coming out in the research, let alone anecdotal observation (I don't know of a single person who has had flu this season).

There is a thing called flutracking which I think was set up by a guy at Newcastle University, which is for tracking instances of flu in Aus and NZ. It has found an incredible drop in flu cases.

But as to why I said that the stat is astounding, for the reporting period this year the numbers were less than one tenth for the next best reporting period, which is back in 2014. So far as stats go, for some research, a decrease of less than half is deemed to be highly significant. This stat just blows that away. The significance of the size of the reduction in flu cases is absolutely massive, it would be really difficult to overstate how significant that stat is. As you say, masks, social distancing, lock downs, and other things that were brought about as part of the response to Covid, well they've really been shown by this stat to be incredibly good at reducing transmission of viral matter like the flu.