Canterbury Bulldogs enter race for Daly Cherry-Evans

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dognacious

Kennel Immortal
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
NF Draft Champion
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
23,589
Reaction score
11,027
Theres nothing wrong with wanting to sign certain players. Id love to have inglis myself.

What is wrong, and poor form imo is people trashing our current players weeks out from the season starts. We know there wont be any more new signings for this season now, we should focus on supporting who we have.

Its also dopey to bag users because they like or are loyal to our existing players. I just lol when I see that.
 

hotdiggitydogs

Kennel Participant
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
301
Reaction score
3
I said it last year.
We were 1 good finisher from a premiership and i stand by that.
We needed a good fullback, winger or even center who was able to out jump, run, catch an opponent and finish off a try 9/10 times.
I think in Brett Morris we have that (throw in Rona as well). He will give out Half and 5/8th another avenue to create a scoring option other then trying to do the same 5th tackle options every set.
 

w00t

Kennel Addict
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
7,581
Reaction score
2,951
People also seem to forget that the Origin series could've easily gone the other way like the case has been for the past few years, NSW lost in 2013 by the skin of their teeth as well. Hodkinson and Reynolds did not win Origin for NSW, much like they did not lose the GF for us.

People need to stop being so abysmally one sided with their opinions. If you want to claim that our halves won Origin then it is equally fair to claim they lost the GF for us. One sided opinions does noone any credit
 

blueyedsamurai

Kennel Legend
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
11,321
Reaction score
2,554
I don't rate cherry Evans he may be a great young talent the reason I don't rate him is because
1- Look at origin 1 first 20 mins when Cronk was on the field qld were dominating nsw but when he went of and cherry Evans came on they played bad.
2- Look at origin 2 cherry evans started for qld they didn't play as well
3- Origin 3 when Cronk was back they played good.
That's just my opinion
He hasnt had the best luck rep wise as Australia also lost in the 4 nations and lost back 2 back to NZ for the first time in 60 years or however long.
 

Alan79

Kennel Legend
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
13,461
Reaction score
19,728
it's no good saying who the club should've signed 10 years ago, that's water under the bridge now. Thurston is wasted at an underachieving club like the cowboys, but that's just how things panned out.

there's nothing wrong with people debating the halves because they hold the key to a gf win. fans aren't being disloyal by wanting new players, especially when time is running out. we will be in a rebuilding phase before we know it.

yes, our halves played origin last year, but so ****ing what, they both had ordinary seasons if we're going to be honest.
For those who don't want to read everything i have spoken about please just read what i have underlined.

I'm not questioning peoples loyalty for wanting new players nor am I asking for people to not debate this issue. Anyone who wants to call themselves a supporter of our club wants to see us hoist the trophy at the end of the year. As fans we all share this desire. I was stating that it annoys me that those loyal to our current players are being labeled as stupid for not thinking we need them. I've seen a lot of people implying that anyone who does not think we need new halves somehow lacks intelligence which is quite simply not true.

Now in recent years we have seen one of the least creative sides ever win the comp when St George took out the title. They would take 5 hit ups and a simple kick then defend like they had wages subtracted for every metre they conceded in defence. We as a club are far more creative than they were. They won it based on their ability to play error free football and make the most of the few opportunities they were able to create.

If anything you have given weight to my argument by pointing out that Thurston is at an under-achieving club. The Cowboys usually have quality in either their backline or in their forwards, rarely do they have quality in both areas. So having one of the top 5 halves in the world has not done wonders for them. I would like to ask how many grand finals they have played in the last ten years with Thurston in their side?. You could probably make a historical case about the knights having only won a premiership in a divided competition while they had Andrew Johns at their club. If a single overpaid half was going to win competitions the Knights and Cowboys would have many premierships to show for their years with Thurston and Johns in their halves. Great halves may win origin matches but they alone cannot win premierships unless they have great squads around them.

Generally the sides who compete often in premierships are well balanced. They have quality in the forwards and backs and not always the greatest and most creative halves in the world. Our side is quite well balanced at the moment and i for one think we have a great chance at a premiership this year.
 

Mr Beast

Admin
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
Gilded
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
9,049
Reaction score
5,369
^^ I actually only read your underlined message only, then read the rest. Well spoken and you make some valid points Alan79
 

jamma01

Kennel Established
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
665
Reaction score
1,048
Stuff cherry evans up there with dylan walker and issac luke as the biggest wanker in the game , soft and goes missing when the going gets tough
 

Izzy Forreal

Much Loved Bulldogs Member
2 x Gilded
Premium Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
4,223
Reaction score
646
Now in recent years we have seen one of the least creative sides ever win the comp when St George took out the title. They would take 5 hit ups and a simple kick then defend like they had wages subtracted for every metre they conceded in defence. We as a club are far more creative than they were. They won it based on their ability to play error free football and make the most of the few opportunities they were able to create.
Hey Alan 79, I read all of your post and yes, I agree with everything you said.

But in the paragraph I've kept the two things that stand out are the Dragons "defensive ethic" and their ability to play error free football. I translate "error free" to be no handling errors (eg offloads that wont be caught - hail mary passes - kicks that give the oppo attacking opportunities etc) plus and just as important keep the penalty count as close to zero as possible.

If our guys can do this we have enough attack to take the trophy on grand final day.
 

w00t

Kennel Addict
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
7,581
Reaction score
2,951
For those who don't want to read everything i have spoken about please just read what i have underlined.

I'm not questioning peoples loyalty for wanting new players nor am I asking for people to not debate this issue. Anyone who wants to call themselves a supporter of our club wants to see us hoist the trophy at the end of the year. As fans we all share this desire. I was stating that it annoys me that those loyal to our current players are being labeled as stupid for not thinking we need them. I've seen a lot of people implying that anyone who does not think we need new halves somehow lacks intelligence which is quite simply not true.

It goes both ways, the same people have consistently stated that we either have no salary cap and accused people who think we do as having absolutely no common sense and/or logic. This discussion with our halves has created a huge friction in our supporter base and while i concede that there is no way that rubbishing our current halves is the way to go, having an opinion attacked as "dreaming" "impossible" or "illogical" isn't any better and tends to flare tempers up.

Now in recent years we have seen one of the least creative sides ever win the comp when St George took out the title. They would take 5 hit ups and a simple kick then defend like they had wages subtracted for every metre they conceded in defence. We as a club are far more creative than they were. They won it based on their ability to play error free football and make the most of the few opportunities they were able to create.

2010 St George? They did have attacking flair, hate him or love him Soward was a catalyst for that win and while their general play was boring they weren't in the bottom 8 in terms of points scored, (They were 7th for points scored, 1st for least points conceded, while we were 12th for points scored and 6th for least points conceded in 2014). We didn't defend half as well as St George did in 2010 and neither were we as capable in attack. We create a lot of oppurtinites and our forwards are the reason for that, but we don't have finish very many of them which is an issue that is largely derived from our halves lack of creativity. Like or not, that is the truth of the matter, we didn't have a proper fullback last season and that took away one of our attacking threats but the onus was on the halves to perform and they didn't.

If anything you have given weight to my argument by pointing out that Thurston is at an under-achieving club. The Cowboys usually have quality in either their backline or in their forwards, rarely do they have quality in both areas. So having one of the top 5 halves in the world has not done wonders for them. I would like to ask how many grand finals they have played in the last ten years with Thurston in their side?. You could probably make a historical case about the knights having only won a premiership in a divided competition while they had Andrew Johns at their club. If a single overpaid half was going to win competitions the Knights and Cowboys would have many premierships to show for their years with Thurston and Johns in their halves. Great halves may win origin matches but they alone cannot win premierships unless they have great squads around them.

Lockyer is arguably the best 5/8 that the Broncos have ever had and through him they won 2 Grand Finals (One in 2000 with Lockyer at FB, one in 2006 wiith Lockyer at 5/8). To suggest Lockyer wouldn't have been one of the highest earners at the Broncos is a travesty. To overpay for any one player is i would agree a catalyst for tough times and silly in most respects, but the point remains that not a single team in the past 10 years has won a premiership without adequate halves, that is a half with vision, creativity and the ability to steer the team around. Too often our halves disappear and not in just a physical sense, they don't organise or set up any plays, Graham is more our halfback than Hodkinson is.

As for Johns and the Knights, how you don't consider the 2001 Premiership win by the Knights a legitimate win beyond me, very few clubs have won more than 1 premiership and one of them were cheating the cap for the entire duration of their domination (Storm). As for the Cowboys, i don't buy into the nonsense that they didn't have a quality squad, they've had a damn good squad for quite a while, including an adequate forward pack and an superb backline, they didn't win more due to their coach being hopeless than the Cowboys not having the squad to do so. Leaking a thousand points in a finals match is no way to win and the Cowboys consistently have that happen to them

Generally the sides who compete often in premierships are well balanced. They have quality in the forwards and backs and not always the greatest and most creative halves in the world. Our side is quite well balanced at the moment and i for one think we have a great chance at a premiership this year.

Name a single side that has won the premiership on the back of average and non-creative halves. We might be the exception to the rule in 2015, but nothing in the past decade has shown otherwise, every premiership winning team has had atleast one creative half.

Our squad has its weakenesses and its strengths and i have high hopes for them, i am just as willing to see what Hodkinson is made of without injury, but this year should be his absolutely last chance and the same goes for Reynolds. They both need to play as halves and not as passengers and that means leading the troops around, directing play and not disappearing in the opposition redzone.
 

steeliz

Kennel Addict
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
7,173
Reaction score
7,995
Our halves did not win SOO, Hayne was massive this series and without him they lose. I have no doubts that another halves pairing would have got the job done with Hayne out the back.I couldn't give a toss about SOO though, it is a completely different style of game to what we see in the NRL. Mitch Piss was rubbish at Origin but he is far more effective at club level than our halves and he is a PREMIERSHIP winning half unlike ours.

The facts are that we struggle to create points and that comes down to the halves. They stand out far to wide, they leave our backs with no room. I believe Trent could possibly help win us a comp, but i can't see it happening with the unstable influence of Reynolds as his partner.
Very true Hayne was massive, but the same can be said about Slater and QLD on many occasions, doesn't mean Thurston can't play.
 

Dognacious

Kennel Immortal
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
NF Draft Champion
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
23,589
Reaction score
11,027
I expect the side will go well this year. 4th year for Des, 2nd hopefully full year for our halves combo. Good exciting buys in BMoz, Loko and Rona. I think with an offseason to recalibrate, the halves will come out like last year and kill it early.

Then they will be picked for origin though. I kinda hope they dont get picked to avoid what disruption it caused last year. But their competition will have to be better than them to kick them out of the roles.

We also will have 2 Mozzes in origin if fit. Then add other possibles like Klemmer and Williams. We could have half the side out for origin if we start well.

How we cope with the origin season and what injuries happen may determine our chances this year. We hope both Mozzes dont get serious injuries like 2014. If we come out of origin reasonably intact, we will finish the season better than last year.
 

Alan79

Kennel Legend
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
13,461
Reaction score
19,728
Hey Alan 79, I read all of your post and yes, I agree with everything you said.

But in the paragraph I've kept the two things that stand out are the Dragons "defensive ethic" and their ability to play error free football. I translate "error free" to be no handling errors (eg offloads that wont be caught - hail mary passes - kicks that give the oppo attacking opportunities etc) plus and just as important keep the penalty count as close to zero as possible.

If our guys can do this we have enough attack to take the trophy on grand final day.
I hope so. I think Hasler knows that these few things are the basics of getting a side to perform when we do lack something in terms of flair.

^^ I actually only read your underlined message only, then read the rest. Well spoken and you make some valid points Alan79
Thank you. I just hope that people can stop worrying about our 2016 squad and enjoy what is hopefully an exciting season in 2015.

It goes both ways, the same people have consistently stated that we either have no salary cap and accused people who think we do as having absolutely no common sense and/or logic. This discussion with our halves has created a huge friction in our supporter base and while i concede that there is no way that rubbishing our current halves is the way to go, having an opinion attacked as "dreaming" "impossible" or "illogical" isn't any better and tends to flare tempers up.
You make a very fair point about this and you are entitled to get annoyed. I've at times also complained when people profess to know what we have spent on our salary cap. I tend to think this whole debate is a rather pointless affair because we don't really know what the club is paying in wages to anyone. But based on the reported 1.2 million wanted by DCE & Foran my thought is that 1/5 of our cap is a great deal to spend on any one player. Just my opinion though, I don't think that either player is worth the salary of 6 other players. If we fill the rest of our squad with Rookies to allow us to pay a star half mega dollars we'll see more people complaining when every decent youngster we produce leaves for greener pastures.


2010 St George? They did have attacking flair, hate him or love him Soward was a catalyst for that win and while their general play was boring they weren't in the bottom 8 in terms of points scored, (They were 7th for points scored, 1st for least points conceded, while we were 12th for points scored and 6th for least points conceded in 2014). We didn't defend half as well as St George did in 2010 and neither were we as capable in attack. We create a lot of oppurtinites and our forwards are the reason for that, but we don't have finish very many of them which is an issue that is largely derived from our halves lack of creativity. Like or not, that is the truth of the matter, we didn't have a proper fullback last season and that took away one of our attacking threats but the onus was on the halves to perform and they didn't.
Soward showed an above average running game for one season in my opinion and that's only my view on it. People can disagree all they want since my opinion is only that of an armchair critic. His kicking game is where Soward is more talented than our halves, but I do think that Both Reynolds and Hodkinson began 2014 with vastly improved short kicking games to their previous years. I hope they work with more options this year since i think our wingers will e better. While we do create plenty of opportunities with our forwards we also create some errors. Izzy hit the nail on the head with his post i have quoted above in the fact that if we are going to use offloads regularly we had best make sure they don't go astray, EVER. I was not happy with the performance of our halves in the run home but to begin the season they steered the ship quite well IMO. I won't make excuses for Reynolds and his lack of composure in the run home but i do think he is capable of better this season, he was Dr jekyll in the early season and mr Hyde in the tail end. Hodkinson i think is a bit under-rated because his running game is limited. Give us more attacking threat from fullback and i think he'll be less predictable.


Lockyer is arguably the best 5/8 that the Broncos have ever had and through him they won 2 Grand Finals (One in 2000 with Lockyer at FB, one in 2006 wiith Lockyer at 5/8). To suggest Lockyer wouldn't have been one of the highest earners at the Broncos is a travesty. To overpay for any one player is i would agree a catalyst for tough times and silly in most respects, but the point remains that not a single team in the past 10 years has won a premiership without adequate halves, that is a half with vision, creativity and the ability to steer the team around. Too often our halves disappear and not in just a physical sense, they don't organise or set up any plays, Graham is more our halfback than Hodkinson is.
I was reading somewhere that Lockyer was supposedly on $250,000 in his final year at the Broncos which to me begs the question of just how loyal was that guy and did anyone ever test his income verse his expenditure. I thought the salary cap actually had rules about the portion of a players wage that could be covered by sponsorships. I think that both our halves at their best have differing strengths. Hodkinson is better at holding a pass till the right moment than many give him credit for, and his ability to be make the clutch plays so calmly is to me a big asset. He is our rudder but lacks a running game to be extremely threatening. He is not a running half, but when he does run the ball he's often able to break the line untouched because the defense does not expect it of him. Reynolds on the other hand is our running half when he is playing well. When he isn't playing well he is crabman which i am sure needs no explaining. I hope he works on mixing up his play for this season and cuts out the sideways running, maybe in favor of developing a good ability to make wraparound plays that i used to love seeing Sherwin do.

As for Johns and the Knights, how you don't consider the 2001 Premiership win by the Knights a legitimate win beyond me, very few clubs have won more than 1 premiership and one of them were cheating the cap for the entire duration of their domination (Storm). As for the Cowboys, i don't buy into the nonsense that they didn't have a quality squad, they've had a damn good squad for quite a while, including an adequate forward pack and an superb backline, they didn't win more due to their coach being hopeless than the Cowboys not having the squad to do so. Leaking a thousand points in a finals match is no way to win and the Cowboys consistently have that happen to them
The knights win was legitimate but the comp was split and you could question if it would have occurred in a full strength comp. No use pursuing that line of thought though. Might as well ask who would win in a fight between bigfoot and the loch ness monster. If as you say the Cowboys have had a great roster around Thurston for so long it still raises the question of why they've not been more consistent. Even an average coach should have been able to jag more great finals runs from a side containing (arguably) the worlds best halfback.

Name a single side that has won the premiership on the back of average and non-creative halves. We might be the exception to the rule in 2015, but nothing in the past decade has shown otherwise, every premiership winning team has had atleast one creative half.

Our squad has its weakenesses and its strengths and i have high hopes for them, i am just as willing to see what Hodkinson is made of without injury, but this year should be his absolutely last chance and the same goes for Reynolds. They both need to play as halves and not as passengers and that means leading the troops around, directing play and not disappearing in the opposition redzone.
I'm not sure how we'll go in the oppositions 20 this year. We've picked up a couple of likely wingers and hopefully J-Moz can accelerate again, but if we lack attack from fullback it will mean another year where we're predictable on both edges. A fullback with pace will mean that hopefully both our halves will have a support player at pace on the inside to pass to when we're in the 20m zone. ithout that attacking fullback we stay pretty predictable in moving the ball from the forwards to the backs.
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,002
Reaction score
1,312
For those who don't want to read everything i have spoken about please just read what i have underlined.

I'm not questioning peoples loyalty for wanting new players nor am I asking for people to not debate this issue. Anyone who wants to call themselves a supporter of our club wants to see us hoist the trophy at the end of the year. As fans we all share this desire. I was stating that it annoys me that those loyal to our current players are being labeled as stupid for not thinking we need them. I've seen a lot of people implying that anyone who does not think we need new halves somehow lacks intelligence which is quite simply not true.

Now in recent years we have seen one of the least creative sides ever win the comp when St George took out the title. They would take 5 hit ups and a simple kick then defend like they had wages subtracted for every metre they conceded in defence. We as a club are far more creative than they were. They won it based on their ability to play error free football and make the most of the few opportunities they were able to create.

If anything you have given weight to my argument by pointing out that Thurston is at an under-achieving club. The Cowboys usually have quality in either their backline or in their forwards, rarely do they have quality in both areas. So having one of the top 5 halves in the world has not done wonders for them. I would like to ask how many grand finals they have played in the last ten years with Thurston in their side?. You could probably make a historical case about the knights having only won a premiership in a divided competition while they had Andrew Johns at their club. If a single overpaid half was going to win competitions the Knights and Cowboys would have many premierships to show for their years with Thurston and Johns in their halves. Great halves may win origin matches but they alone cannot win premierships unless they have great squads around them.

Generally the sides who compete often in premierships are well balanced. They have quality in the forwards and backs and not always the greatest and most creative halves in the world. Our side is quite well balanced at the moment and i for one think we have a great chance at a premiership this year.
i agree with what your saying, but the reason why our halves are under so much sudden scrutiny is because of the wrestling rule change. it was announced without warning, so it's a new debate - and our halves are right in the middle of a pretty interesting little scenerio.

Melbourne have changed the game by starting the wrestling.

we are the reason why wrestling exists. we were untouchable, between Sherwin and Anasta the amount of possible plays a defender faced was overwhelming - and the accuracy with their execution was exceptional, kicking, running or passing.

If the NRL is serious about tossing the wrestling rule, it will be a much more faster and open game hopefully, the year of the half back for sure.
 

KelpiesHuskies

Kennel Established
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
703
Reaction score
64
Raelene has said we have offered Cherry-Evans nothing and we are not interested. I think that ends the speculation.
 

Nano

Kennel Immortal
Gilded
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
18,153
Reaction score
3,161
Nek minnit DCE signs a 5 year contract with us lol
If he did **** me dead I'd be over the moon, as if people take DCE with open hands.

He would do wonders to our team with his kicking, running and passing game...
 

Vlasnik

Kennel Legend
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
10,442
Reaction score
8,181
Right, on to the issue at hand...
DCE is a self centred, antagonistic, selfish, overrated player who seriously divides the guys he plays with.
He's an example of why psychometric exams exist - to keep people who would damage a team environment out of it.

NO to DCE.

The reality is pretty simple anyway:
Manly have offered more than a million a year over multiple years. His wife's family lives very close and they have young kids.
IF he leaves WoManly, and that's a big 'if' - the winning bidder is going to need to go $1.3+ to have any chance. It's not as if he is playing for Wests or Canberra. The guy has played plenty of finals and Manly (love them or otherwise) are a resilient bunch of %$@wits. The Gold Coast...really? I think he'll stay and I think Kieran will end up at Parra.

Nothing to see here folks...move along.

Spending 20% of our cap on a tosser? No thanks.
Welcome back Bro!!!
 

The DoggFather

ASSASSIN
Premium Member
Gilded
Site's Top Poster
Joined
Sep 2, 2012
Messages
107,880
Reaction score
120,585
Welcome back Mr Ennis :p

I kid, I kid.

Good to have you back bro.
 

Realist90

Kennel Legend
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
13,949
Reaction score
3,262
i think we all need to calm down. We made the gf without the so called superstar halves of the game. But we lacked a good back line. This year we will have a highly competitive backline. This may be the key to the gf appearance and win. Would love to see loko or rona take control at fullback they definitely have potential.
Wouldn't be surprised if our game plan has been tweaked this year with interchangeable passing between the backs increased as they are bigger and quicker this year.
Sorry to the Thompson lovers but he won't get an appearance this year he is the hunchback from 300 the weakness to the Spartan army *bulldog defence/attack*
 

2nd phase play

Kennel Established
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
724
Reaction score
0
So people saying forwards wins games not the halves..
What happen to the allstars hey!!
Big forward pack shit halves yes Foran did absolutely nothing!
Indigenous Small forward pack and Thurston and kicked their ass!!
I agree you need a good forward pack to go forward but you need the halves to finish it off!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top