Official Call for Calm re: Wakeham Part 2 (2020 Edition)

[Horse]

I think we definitely miss the length of Lewis kicks but he is not playing and Wakeham is. I don’t think Wakeham played very well the other night but he wasn’t the reason we lost.

We got beat by 7 tries to one, 32 missed tackles, 24 ineffective tackles, poor backing up, 13 errors, blokes missing tackles and then hands on hip instead of chasing after them, getting belted in the forwards, 97 metres for our kick returns compared to their 247 metres, almost half a second slower average play the ball speed, and almost 30% less post contact metres running the ball...

Our pack are soft and the fact we had 31% less post contact metres then they did tells the story. Foran appears to be timid, and the forwards are not bringing the “madness”.

Backs score try’s and take glory but always buy the beers for the forwards...

Baz, I appreciate the well researched reply.

I must say however I saw things a little bit differently, and if we dive a little bit further into your statistics it also tells a bit more about where a lot of the fault can be laid for Sunday’s game.

Before anything though, it can’t be ignored how big of an impact the early loss of Hoppa was. As soon as he went down it was game over in my eyes. The reshuffle was a massive shakeup to our game plan and structures, not to mention he’s probably our most in form player.

With regards to your kick return metres supplied. That pretty much just paints a picture of our woeful long kicking game on the night. We floated long kicks without any aerial hang time down the throat of the Tigers back 3 all night long, and allowed them to run 20-30m back prior to contact with the defence. We surrendered field position via just about every long kick. We started our sets from within the 10m line all night long, tough ask for the forwards to be able to wrestle any sort of ascendancy when this is the theme of the night. Despite these circumstances, the pack ran for in excess of 9 metres per run on average, which I thought was a good effort.

The error count you referred to of 13. Look further into it, 10 of these can be attributed to our backs who turned over possession with regular effect.

The missed tackle count you referred to we can also look a bit further into. The forwards missed 18 in total, and tackled at 95% efficiency overall. The backs missed 14 in total, and tackled at just 75% efficiency overall. That’s 1 miss for every 3 completed.

I think you’ve been very harsh on the work of the forwards mate, who I perceived to be on a hiding to nothing all night for the reasons above.

 

[Bazildog]

Baz, I appreciate the well researched reply.

I must say however I saw things a little bit differently, and if we dive a little bit further into your statistics it also tells a bit more about where a lot of the fault can be laid for Sunday’s game.

Before anything though, it can’t be ignored how big of an impact the early loss of Hoppa was. As soon as he went down it was game over in my eyes. The reshuffle was a massive shakeup to our game plan and structures, not to mention he’s probably our most in form player.

With regards to your kick return metres supplied. That pretty much just paints a picture of our woeful long kicking game on the night. We floated long kicks without any aerial hang time down the throat of the Tigers back 3 all night long, and allowed them to run 20-30m back prior to contact with the defence. We surrendered field position via just about every long kick. We started our sets from within the 10m line all night long, tough ask for the forwards to be able to wrestle any sort of ascendancy when this is the theme of the night. Despite these circumstances, the pack ran for in excess of 9 metres per run on average, which I thought was a good effort.

The error count you referred to of 13. Look further into it, 10 of these can be attributed to our backs who turned over possession with regular effect.

The missed tackle count you referred to we can also look a bit further into. The forwards missed 18 in total, and tackled at 95% efficiency overall. The backs missed 14 in total, and tackled at just 75% efficiency overall. That’s 1 miss for every 3 completed.

I think you’ve been very harsh on the work of the forwards mate, who I perceived to be on a hiding to nothing all night for the reasons above.

Horse, I am not blaming the forwards for the loss as that was truly a team effort. Yes you can interpret stats to suit an argument, but the post contact metres are factual and having nothing to do with field position. Bending the line or breaking tackles is what creates this stat and we simply are not delivering.

Im an old front rower mate so the last thing I want to do is put shit on the real footballers.. But our leg drive and first contact is not matching it with the opposition and our play the ball speed is almost half a second slower.

Also, remember I have been a supporter of Lewis because I know there is a footballer in there but maybe not as a halve. (cue tomatoes..)

The forwards, just like our club at the moment need to get on the front foot and make a statement.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Horse, I am not blaming the forwards for the loss as that was truly a team effort. Yes you can interpret stats to suit an argument, but the post contact metres are factual and having nothing to do with field position. Bending the line or breaking tackles is what creates this stat and we simply are not delivering.

Im an old front rower mate so the last thing I want to do is put shit on the real footballers.. But our leg drive and first contact is not matching it with the opposition and our play the ball speed is almost half a second slower.

Also, remember I have been a supporter of Lewis because I know there is a footballer in there but maybe not as a halve. (cue tomatoes..)

The forwards, just like our club at the moment need to get on the front foot and make a statement.

Our forwards are garbage.

We really need renoif and rfm through the middle to create momentum.

Rfm won't pass to save his life so he impedes while in the backrow.

Aside from rfm and renouf no one else provides momentum through the forwards.

 

[Bazildog]

Our forwards are garbage.

We really need renoif and rfm through the middle to create momentum.

Rfm won't pass to save his life so he impedes while in the backrow.

Aside from rfm and renouf no one else provides momentum through the forwards.

I would add to this we are one big bopper that can pass (and rub a few noses) short. Thompson is mobile and backs up great but he played with a very good prop that is hard as well in Walmsley.

P.S But I will settle for Bateman.....

 

[Mozzie]

I agree the forwards were not up to it the other night. I think they try hard but some sides have much more talent in this area. I think Lewis has been missed not because he is a good halfback clearly Wakeham has more attacking flare but because he is playing like an extra forward which helps prop up our forwards a little. Couple that with a longer kicking game and it helps us stay in the fight which is better to watch than us just getting belted. Unfortunately it still will usually result in a loss.

 

[Horse]

Sorry but I’ve gotta strongly disagree fellas. The forward pack is the absolute least of our problems, especially with Thommo coming into the mix.

Our 1-7 options have been woeful all year barring Hoppa. Halves have been poor. Zero strike out wide and the backs as a whole have made a mountain of rookie handling errors week after week to put us constantly under the pump.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Or maybe Foran is just playign this way so we won't resign him, given he knows he is takign a massive pay cut. Perfect for someone like Manly to come in and snap him up. I'm sure he would love playing under Des again. Especially with the team they have built.

But wouldn't he be wanting play out of his skin to push up his value and prove that he is worth the BIG BUCKS.

Go Dogs

 

[Bazildog]

Sorry but I’ve gotta strongly disagree fellas. The forward pack is the absolute least of our problems, especially with Thommo coming into the mix.

Our 1-7 options have been woeful all year barring Hoppa. Halves have been poor. Zero strike out wide and the backs as a whole have made a mountain of rookie handling errors week after week to put us constantly under the pump.

But thats ok mate, you dont have to agree thats the fun of a forum. And I am exactly the same as you, I strongly disagree. It might not be our biggest headache, as 1,6,7 and 9 as they are always top of the list and we desperately need a top 9 and at least 1 top shelf half (I think Averillo will fill either 1 or 6 beautifully).

But, backs need space and thats comes from hit up metres and quick play the balls and winning the battle in the middle which we are not. Thompson will be great and so will Bateman if he comes but I think we need to offload a couple of our current forwards and buy some aggression.