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Bush Fires

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Dawgfather, Jan 7, 2020.

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  1. Dawgfather

    Dawgfather Kennel Addict

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    I know the other thread got closed, but that seemed to be for separate reasons and not because we can't talk about bush fires.

    I'll kick the convo off again.

    There is a lot of talk saying these fires are unprecedented, however, let's look at the worst fires in Australia by number of deaths and number of acres burned:

    Worst by area burned:

    1974-75 - NT - 110,000,000 acres
    1974-75 - WA - 72,000,000 acres
    1974-75 - SA - 42,000,000 acres
    2002 - NT - 37,000,000 acres
    1974-75 Qld - 19,000,000 acres
    Current year 2019/20 - 16,000,000 acres

    Worst by fatalities:

    2009 Black Saturday Victoria - 173 dead
    1983 Ash Wednesday South Australia & Victoria - 75 dead
    1939 Black Friday Victoria - 71 dead
    1967 Black Tuesday Tasmania - 62 dead
    1926 Victoria - 60 dead
    1962 Victoria - 32 dead
    Current year 2019/20 - 25 dead

    Everyone agrees this years fires are horrific but to call them unprecedented would seem an exaggeration?

    Also, 183 people (to date) have been spoken to or charged by police regarding fire offences (including arson) since November. I don't think there are stats yet, however it would seem a significant majority of these fires are the cause of humans lighting fires (which of course has nothing to do with climate change).
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    Dawgfather, Jan 7, 2020
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  3. JUNKYARD DOGS

    JUNKYARD DOGS Kennel Addict

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    Agree its bad obviously, but Climate change wasn't as much of a beat up as it is now. Everyone takes it and runs with the tag.
     
    JUNKYARD DOGS, Jan 7, 2020
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  4. Bob dog

    Bob dog Hectik defence Premium Member

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    I thought this was the worst ever, but its not, yet..
     
    Bob dog, Jan 7, 2020
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  5. Papa Emeritus

    Papa Emeritus Administrator Staff Member Gilded

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    It is hard to argue with graphs like this showing our temperature climb over time. Higher temps means fuel dries out more, which creates more ferocious fires.

    There has been little to zero fire management done in recent years. A disaster waiting to happen.
     
    Papa Emeritus, Jan 7, 2020
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  6. Nexus

    Nexus Eye Ship Mice Elf Staff Member

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    No dramas with you talking about this stuff, the other thread got a bit out of hand and off topic so was best to shut it down. Hopefully this one fairs a little bit better.
     
    Nexus, Jan 7, 2020
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  7. JUNKYARD DOGS

    JUNKYARD DOGS Kennel Addict

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    Yes it is, but the main thing here is the last part you mention. Fire management needs to be of higher priority than what the government is allowing. Land management needs exactly that, to be managed. With certain figures not allowing effective pro-active fire hazard reduction things wont change, we will continue to be re-active.

    The government in fact reducing their concern for this type of thing has clearly shown how out of touch they are. Has bit them in the ass big time. Now time for them to react again.
     
    JUNKYARD DOGS, Jan 7, 2020
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  8. Natboy II

    Natboy II Kennel Enthusiast

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    Very true but I’d like to see a graph that goes back at least thousands of years reflecting climatic cycles
     
    Natboy II, Jan 7, 2020
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  9. Hacky McAxe

    Hacky McAxe Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded

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    Generally fires are rated by how many lives are lost. Black Saturday obviously being the worst. The reason for using this instead of acres is due to differences in what's burning. For example, the NT fires of 74/75 burned much more than any other, but they were mainly grass fires in unpopulated areas.

    Regardless, this isn't the worst bushfires we've ever seen. It's just unprecedented that it would be so bad at the start of the bushfire season.

    And it's not like anyone is actually saying that climate change started these fires. Feel free to prove me wrong if I'm wrong.
     
    Hacky McAxe, Jan 7, 2020
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  10. JUNKYARD DOGS

    JUNKYARD DOGS Kennel Addict

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    Except Jennifer Aniston :-)
     
    JUNKYARD DOGS, Jan 7, 2020
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  11. Papa Emeritus

    Papa Emeritus Administrator Staff Member Gilded

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    Absolutely. It is sad that we have such reactive governments and not proactive ones. Hopefully they learn from this year and listen to people who know wtf they are doing when it comes to fire prevention.


    I understand this point of view, that the climate naturally ebbs and flows. But we do not have that data and we never will. For me personally it seems way too much of a coincidence that the rises we are seeing correlate with mankinds advances in this century. We pump more and more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere the more we advance. If there was some natural ebb and flow you would think it would not perfectly line up with this...
     
    Papa Emeritus, Jan 7, 2020
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  13. Hacky McAxe

    Hacky McAxe Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded

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    How many of thousands of years would you like?

    Here is a 9,000 year graph

    [​IMG]

    Here's 150,000 years

    [​IMG]
     
    Hacky McAxe, Jan 7, 2020
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  14. Hacky McAxe

    Hacky McAxe Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded

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    Celebrities don't count as people
     
    Hacky McAxe, Jan 7, 2020
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  15. tonee

    tonee Administrator Staff Member Gilded

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    great post with facts.
     
    tonee, Jan 7, 2020
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  16. JUNKYARD DOGS

    JUNKYARD DOGS Kennel Addict

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    Ok you got me hahaha.
     
    JUNKYARD DOGS, Jan 7, 2020
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  17. JUNKYARD DOGS

    JUNKYARD DOGS Kennel Addict

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    What was the instrument used, and was it calibrated?
     
    JUNKYARD DOGS, Jan 7, 2020
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  18. Dawgfather

    Dawgfather Kennel Addict

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    Has there been more articles about climate change and our bush fire crisis or more articles about arsonists starting bush fires?

    There's your answer.
     
    Dawgfather, Jan 7, 2020
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  19. Hacky McAxe

    Hacky McAxe Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded

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    Hacky McAxe, Jan 7, 2020
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  20. Natboy II

    Natboy II Kennel Enthusiast

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    So there is cycles. Thanks mate
     
    Natboy II, Jan 7, 2020
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  21. Hacky McAxe

    Hacky McAxe Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded

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    I'm this case the measurements were taken by a combination of factors including ice core samples and trees. They're unlikely to be entirely accurate. Just best approximations.
     
    Hacky McAxe, Jan 7, 2020
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  22. Hacky McAxe

    Hacky McAxe Super Moderator Staff Member Gilded

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    I'm not saying arsonists didn't start the fires. You and several others claimed that climate change couldn't have started the fires because arsonists started them.

    Im merely pointing out that what you are presenting is a strawman as people aren't saying "Climate change started the fires"
     
    Hacky McAxe, Jan 7, 2020
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