Opinion The 'Rebuild' Is A Disaster

[D- voice]

and this is the result..
View attachment 15101

I thought it looked like our club

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Agree. We can't be planning long term with 12 month extensions....that's no kind of plan under any circumstances.

Board has to weigh up if he is good enough and has the vision to do anything meaningful with 3-4 better players next year and can he sustain that for 2-3 years after that towards a premiership.

With his lack of vision and inability to get even the basic structures and gameplan executed by his players, recognise the most talented and their correct positions, then I sadly can't see us, or Dean, taking that extra step up to being competitive, let alone challenging for Top 4.

This is just my opinion
It is beyond comprehension that the Club would resign him next year. He is not a first grade coach, period. We cant have a care taker coach 4 years in a row. If this so called stupid rebuild is to occur, we need an A grade coach somewhere somehow for next year without fail. They have had years to execute this plan and get it done. Its the new beginning weve been sold the last 3 years without cap restriction, the so call war chess. It would be insane to have someone that doesn't know how to coach for 2021.

 

[bradyk]

This is just my opinion
It is beyond comprehension that the Club would resign him next year. He is not a first grade coach, period. We cant have a care taker coach 4 years in a row. If this so called stupid rebuild is to occur, we need an A grade coach somewhere somehow for next year without fail. They have had years to execute this plan and get it done. Its the new beginning weve been sold the last 3 years without cap restriction, the so call war chess. It would be insane to have someone that doesn't know how to coach for 2021.

And if a top coach was available he'd be here, why can't you understand that? Pay is here until we can get someone better... There is no point flip flopping and getting someone at the same level or even worse. If Pay loses the dressing room beforehand he'll also be moved on.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

And if a top coach was available he'd be here, why can't you understand that? Pay is here until we can get someone better... There is no point flip flopping and getting someone at the same level or even worse. If Pay loses the dressing room beforehand he'll also be moved on.

Da fuck you talkin about. Said to you yesturday pay shouldnt be replaced till the end of the year. How am I flip flopping?

 

[bradyk]

Da fuck you talkin about. Said to you yesturday pay shouldnt be replaced till the end of the year. How am I flip flopping?

Maybe wrong saying but I meant more that there's no point bringing in another coach that is the same level as Pay (or worse). We need a top coach. Maybe I should I said a sideways swap. Pay is here until a top coach is available or like I said he losses the dressing room beforehand. That's either until the end of this year or next. Next year he'd have higher expectations as we'd have a better roster. We were expected to get the wooden spoon last season, we finished 12th. We are expected to finish second last this year we're going to finish ? Last weeks performance was rubbish but a Manly 13+ was expected. Pay's not a top coach, our roster is hot garbage. I'll just leave it at that.

Here are the best coaches available right now anyways:
https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/06/03/experts-view-whos-best-coach-on-the-market/

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Maybe wrong saying but I meant more that there's no point bringing in another coach that is the same level as Pay (or worse). We need a top coach. Maybe I should I said a sideways swap.

No worries. My grammar and spelling is pretty shit, Im not the best at trying explain my thoughts.

 

[Axel_75]

Everyone knew that there was going to be some bad times until 2021 when we can start to make some decent signings.
I think the boards only option was to look at building the junior teams and I think the junior teams were doing quiet well this year. That's good for the future.
The first grade team ended the season well last season and we weren't too far off the eight.
There was some hope that it would continue this season, but the scandal, the sacking of CHN and the big winger + losing a major sponsor sent us backwards.
We played well against Parra who are on top of the comp and have gone on to score big wins against teams with better rosters eg Broncos.
We got spanked last year by Manly so I wasn't expecting big things last weekend.
We just need a win for our confidence.

 

[wendog33]

This is just my opinion
It is beyond comprehension that the Club would resign him next year. He is not a first grade coach, period. We cant have a care taker coach 4 years in a row. If this so called stupid rebuild is to occur, we need an A grade coach somewhere somehow for next year without fail. They have had years to execute this plan and get it done. Its the new beginning weve been sold the last 3 years without cap restriction, the so call war chess. It would be insane to have someone that doesn't know how to coach for 2021.

Yes its a dilemma for the club. We need someone tough and competent with what we've got and someone that present, and prospective future players can have confidence in that can advance their careers and enjoyment in playing for our club and rugba league. The coach for 2021 should be a coach you can have supreme confidence to get us up there and that it will be for a period of 3 years at least. I dont think Pay fits into that criteria atm.

Yet unless they can pull a rabbit outa a hat, we are caught up in this undertow stopping us from rising to the top.

Possibly the Board will give him 2 years like they have remaining and succeed or fail together.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Yes its a dilemma for the club. We need someone tough and competent with what we've got and someone that present, and prospective future players can have confidence in that can advance their careers and enjoyment in playing for our club and rugba league. The coach for 2021 should be a coach you can have supreme confidence to get us up there and that it will be for a period of 3 years at least. I dont think Pay fits into that criteria atm.

Yet unless they can pull a rabbit outa a hat, we are caught up in this undertow stopping us from rising to the top.

Possibly the Board will give him 2 years like they have remaining and succeed or fail together.

One part of me thinks that the club is so bad that it simply hasnt the ability to dig themselves out of this mess. Bigger picture stuff.
Another part of me thinks surely theyve had a plan, I know they like to keep their cards close to their chest and everything is aligned ready to go next year. That this year will just have to be ridden out and unfortunately we just cant tell the fans.
I know nothing about club land. All I know is Im going grey pretty bloody quick and Im blaming my love of the Dogs for it. Sure is a roller coaster ride.

 

[_G-Dog_]

I can't see how or why they would re-sign him personally but they have to make a decision either way very soon.

Until i see great decisions being made & the coach &admin & rookie playets prove themselves with results.. the jury will be out on the whole lot of them..

The club should be lookimg for all possible coaching candidates for next year as of now..
If tgey decide its Pay it cant more than 1 more season.. as At least Flanagan is available in 2022

 

[wendog33]

One part of me thinks that the club is so bad that it simply hasnt the ability to dig themselves out of this mess. Bigger picture stuff.
Another part of me thinks surely theyve had a plan, I know they like to keep their cards close to their chest and everything is aligned ready to go next year. That this year will just have to be ridden out and unfortunately we just cant tell the fans.
I know nothing about club land. All I know is Im going grey pretty bloody quick and Im blaming my love of the Dogs for it. Sure is a roller coaster ride.

I'm sick of the cloak and dagger, flying under the radar, keep it in house, close yo our chest, can't let anyone, including fans and members, know whats going on kind of thinking. It's dumb IMHO and not aporopriate for a modern, socially aware, media savvy modern day business.

We just have inept communicators and small ideas people behind it IMHO.

A Club in our situation should be more inclusive with information with us, and the media , and player agents. You can't operate a successful business any other way.

I'm not saying make daily signing discussion announcements in the DT, but we need to at least look like substantial players in the marketplace rather than silent passengers when all these rumours, headlines come up.

And while I'm at it. The Club should have had CHN and Ok front a private interview and explanation conducted by say Zap to explain to members and fans. Same shoukd have happened to Elliott etc. There's too much secrecy and non-accountability and information kept in house.

It's our Club too not just "theirs". Rant over for the time being lol.

 

[GA45]

I have a simple but important question to both pro and anti Pay fans...
How many marquee players are we expected to sign with all the uncertainties surrounding the coach ?

The only certainty with our coach is he’s out of his depth and not a head coach. That much is clear.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Pay should have been let go last year but the board extended him early in the season just to shut the media up and give an impression/perception that all was dandy at Belmore

‘Rebuilding’
‘Trust the process’

They wasted a year and the rot has set in. Like I said numerous times over summer, the back end of season string of wins means absolutely nothing then and even more so now when we don’t even look like scoring a point.

A good friend of mine (highly regarded coach in NZ) and scouts for the Knights - He spends a month in pre season with them and spends time with the coaching group and privy to their training methodology and IP.

He said the “inside joke’ among the coaches is that Pay who they say is a ‘great bloke’ is so old school in his thinking and coaching that he still scribbles on the whiteboard ‘run hard’ and ‘tackle hard’

He spends all his time on defence planning and the majority of the week is on defence (sure fooled me)- little emphasis is given to attack and the little time they spend on it he leaves up to the assistants and senior players to sort out.

We trained and played so much shape to CHN which looked great back end of last year but obviously not an option now.

‘Great guy but should not have been given the head coach role’

This is a fk up of epic proportions by the board , the old school get one of our own (turn a blind eye on SL era) family club narrative has blinded them from seeing the mess that is now in front of us.

The pride of not wanting to look like a unstable club will mean that they won’t sack him ....‘that’s not how we conduct business’ but hopefully not give him the gig next year ....then again they will probably throw him another year if we win 5/6 meaningless end of season games.

If you dig deeper the real problem we have is in fact the lack of leaders top down

 

[ash160]

We haven’t had a genuine fullback since the general left. We haven’t had a decent halfback since Hoko.

Poor retention and total roster mismanagement has half the teams in the NRL running around with ex dogs players who are killing it.

Dean is inconsistent with team selections and does play guys out of position which rarely works. Not sure if he has full control over team selections or there’s outside influence but some of it doesn’t make any sense.

 

[boggie23]

We haven’t had a genuine fullback since the general left. We haven’t had a decent halfback since Hoko.

Poor retention and total roster mismanagement has half the teams in the NRL running around with ex dogs players who are killing it.

Dean is inconsistent with team selections and does play guys out of position which rarely works. Not sure if he has full control over team selections or there’s outside influence but some of it doesn’t make any sense.

Most telling thing for mine was the amount of dogs players in origin last season. And the only one in blue and white was Napa who was dropped for the last game :/

 

[The DoggFather]

Nah - you're one a the word Nazi's.

 

[Doggiezbrah]

I expected us to not be competitive until 2021 due to cap issues. I feel there wasn’t a proper plan by the board. I believe the board just recruited whoever was available to make up the numbers until this was over. For example, the likes of Britt, Sue and Priest.

This season is the perfect opportunity to focus on blooding our juniors. The likes of Wakeham, Averillo, Harper & Ogden should be the in squad. Players should be playing in their proper position. The experimentation of DWZ at fullback or Smith in centres should be over.

For example, take a look at the Tigers. They have a balanced team who look on the way up despite recruitment mistakes. Maguire came in and got rid of underperforming players. The article below is what our rebuilding phase should be like.


https://everythingrugbyleague.com/maguire-future-proofing-wests-tigers-with-youth/

 

[Superuber]

I'm sick of the cloak and dagger, flying under the radar, keep it in house, close yo our chest, can't let anyone, including fans and members, know whats going on kind of thinking. It's dumb IMHO and not aporopriate for a modern, socially aware, media savvy modern day business.

We just have inept communicators and small ideas people behind it IMHO.

A Club in our situation should be more inclusive with information with us, and the media , and player agents. You can't operate a successful business any other way.

I'm not saying make daily signing discussion announcements in the DT, but we need to at least look like substantial players in the marketplace rather than silent passengers when all these rumours, headlines come up.

And while I'm at it. The Club should have had CHN and Ok front a private interview and explanation conducted by say Zap to explain to members and fans. Same shoukd have happened to Elliott etc. There's too much secrecy and non-accountability and information kept in house.

It's our Club too not just "theirs". Rant over for the time being lol.

It's our Club too not just "theirs"

Incorrect.

get rid of the words TOO and JUST

 

[Moey]

And if a top coach was available he'd be here, why can't you understand that? Pay is here until we can get someone better... There is no point flip flopping and getting someone at the same level or even worse. If Pay loses the dressing room beforehand he'll also be moved on.

That logic makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You don't just leave him in his postion. You sack him and find someone better. You dont let him run the club to the ground. Who cares who is next. They will get a chance like Pay did.
But this time around our club is in a better financial position which makes it more attractive for future potential coaches.

 

[Phalangist]

We haven’t had a genuine fullback since the general left. We haven’t had a decent halfback since Hoko.

Poor retention and total roster mismanagement has half the teams in the NRL running around with ex dogs players who are killing it.

Dean is inconsistent with team selections and does play guys out of position which rarely works. Not sure if he has full control over team selections or there’s outside influence but some of it doesn’t make any sense.

I do agree our recruiting has been pathetic for years BUT I’d say after patten we did have Ben barba who wa amazing for us.