The Tennis Thread

Rod67

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
2,008
in truth, Djokovic did not get special rules... he was advised to seek an exemption (by who?) which would involve having his medical status examined anonymously by two Australian medical panels (or one panel and one board/doctor?) and if approved, he would be allowed to enter Australia without being vaccinated... but then the issue of a Djokovic exemption started to reverberate in the Australian public and whipped up by the likes of Todd Woodbridge and Sam Groth and then ScoMo decides to use the issue as a political win and has Djokovic's visa cancelled wrongly almost immediately he touches down in Melbourne --> hence, why the Government consented to Djokovic's first Federal Court application... but then, on Friday evening and with the Australian Open starting the following Monday morning and Djokovic in the draw (in Nadal's half no less), the government again cancels Djokovic's visa using a broad ministerial discretion not because his entry to Australia was contrary to law (they accepted his documents were in order) but because:

"I have given consideration to the fact that Mr Djokovic is a high profile unvaccinated individual who has indicated publicly that he is opposed to becoming vaccinated against Covid-19," the Immigration Minister wrote.

"In addition, I consider that Mr Djokovic's ongoing presence in Australia may lead to an increase in anti-vaccination sentiment generated in the Australian community, potentially leading to an increase in civil unrest of the kind previously experienced in Australia with rallies and protests which may themselves be a source of community transmission." - Alex Hawke


imagine throwing Greta Thunberg out of the country simply because her mere presence may encourage ordinary Australians to adopt a green agenda?

and because Australians hate Djokovic, nobody thinks to question the actions, motives and incompetency of decision makers here --> Dan Andrews got re-elected last year, Craig Tiley of Tennis Australia is still in his job, and ScoMo had a lot more problems than his border management that cost him his job

let's leave aside the lack of logic in allowing Djokovic into Australia in 2020, 2021 and 2023 while Covid is still an issue but taking some supposed moral high ground over vaccinations in 2022 for now... the problem with taking a strict Australian entry policy is that Australia hosts international events like the Australian Open which by definition must allow entry to all players that qualify... by restricting that entry, Australia fails to live up to its end of the bargain... for example, why not move the event until the Covid issue is sufficiently resolved or under control like they did with the Cinncinatti Masters in 2020 which was played in New York?

Just to clear up a few FACTS as you have either misconstrued what actually happened.

Novax gained exemption from 2 separate independent panels of medical experts. One of those was the Independent Medical Exemption Review Panel appointed by the Victorian Department of Health.

This was after the Victorian Government had also announced, " The Victorian government has mandated that only fully vaccinated players, fans and staff as well as those granted an exemption would be allowed into Melbourne Park".

Novak's problems were compounded by the Victorian State government NOT the Federal Government. The Victorian Government were saying one thing but were desperately trying by working behind the scenes to have Djokovic gain an exemption to play.

Federal Government control borders and their policy was crystal clear, in that anyone travelling into Australia had to show proof of vaccination to be allowed entry.

Tennis Australia CEO Craig Tiley was caught between a rock and hard place as he like the Victorian Government wanted Novax to play but also warned Novax that unless he can provide proof of vaccination, he wouldn't gain entry into Australia.

Novax based his exemption on that he had contracted the virus and therefore had gained immunity. That was NOT a legitimate reason for exemption according to the Commonwealth Government, under ATAGI at that time, hence the reason why his VISA was cancelled.

Victorian Labor Government knew this would be a bad look for the Federal Government by giving Novax an exemption and it was also up to Novax and his people to ensure that he was able to enter the country under the then Australian Laws.
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Yep.. but I prefer the Fed.. How about you?
in truth, the only times I find Nadal interesting is when he lets the mask drop (eg. when he looked to bully/distract Sonego at the net at Wimbledon last year) and that his game is based on playing tennis with his non-dominant left hand
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Just to clear up a few FACTS as you have either misconstrued what actually happened.

Novax gained exemption from 2 separate independent panels of medical experts. One of those was the Independent Medical Exemption Review Panel appointed by the Victorian Department of Health.

This was after the Victorian Government had also announced, " The Victorian government has mandated that only fully vaccinated players, fans and staff as well as those granted an exemption would be allowed into Melbourne Park".

Novak's problems were compounded by the Victorian State government NOT the Federal Government. The Victorian Government were saying one thing but were desperately trying by working behind the scenes to have Djokovic gain an exemption to play.

Federal Government control borders and their policy was crystal clear, in that anyone travelling into Australia had to show proof of vaccination to be allowed entry.

Tennis Australia CEO Craig Tiley was caught between a rock and hard place as he like the Victorian Government wanted Novax to play but also warned Novax that unless he can provide proof of vaccination, he wouldn't gain entry into Australia.

Novax based his exemption on that he had contracted the virus and therefore had gained immunity. That was NOT a legitimate reason for exemption according to the Commonwealth Government, under ATAGI at that time, hence the reason why his VISA was cancelled.

Victorian Labor Government knew this would be a bad look for the Federal Government by giving Novax an exemption and it was also up to Novax and his people to ensure that he was able to enter the country under the then Australian Laws.
Then why didn't the Australian Federal Government use this as the reason to employ the ministerial discretion to cancel his visa for a second time?
 

Rod67

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
2,008
Then why didn't the Australian Federal Government use this as the reason to employ the ministerial discretion to cancel his visa for a second time?
Here are the reasons for both.

The initial decision to revoke Djokovic's visa was made under section 116 of the Migration Act under grounds that the Australian Government did not accept a valid medical exemption from the Victorian Government.

And then:

Hawke said he canceled the visa on "health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so." His statement added that Prime Minister Scott Morrison's government "is firmly committed to protecting Australia's borders, particularly in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic." Novak Djokovic's Australian visa has again been cancelled days before the start of the Australian Open on the basis his presence could “excite anti-vaccination sentiment”.


HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BOARDED THE PLANE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Here are the reasons for both.

The initial decision to revoke Djokovic's visa was made under section 116 of the Migration Act under grounds that the Australian Government did not accept a valid medical exemption from the Victorian Government.
“What more could this man have done?”

“Here, a professor and an eminently qualified physician have produced and provided to the applicant a medical exemption,” he said.

“Further to that, that medical exemption and the basis on which it was given, was separately given by a further independent expert specialist panel established by the Victorian state government.” - Judge Anthony Kelly


hence, why the government consented to Djokovic's initial Federal Court application to quash the initial cancellation of his visa... because on legal grounds, they were not going to win

And then:

Hawke said he canceled the visa on "health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so." His statement added that Prime Minister Scott Morrison's government "is firmly committed to protecting Australia's borders, particularly in relation to the COVID-19 pandemic." Novak Djokovic's Australian visa has again been cancelled days before the start of the Australian Open on the basis his presence could “excite anti-vaccination sentiment”.
so committed that they let in Rublev who was suffering from Covid because he was vaccinated but kicked out a healthy Djokovic because he was unvaccinated? boundless hypocrisy

and the reason why the minister termed it as a health and civil order matter is that it was sufficiently vague and the bar for exercise of said discretion low... dirty politics --> to the point that they waited until Friday evening forcing the second hearing to be heard on a Sunday

HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BOARDED THE PLANE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

and if anyone seriously views Djokovic as some master manipulator and thought he was cheating the system by coming to Australia last year, just have a read through the transcript with Australia Border Force -->

 

Bulldog1966

Kennel Legend
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
13,080
Reaction score
14,252
My court is on the street.. Djokovic is my go to man..

Lol..I couldn’t help saying that.. My Rocky V moment..

I just point out that the Fed got to the point to win that Wimbledon final..so tactically he was spot on that day..just needed to go for it on his serve going close to the lines which he had been doing, but he pulled back when the time came for the knockout blow..if you watch, you’ll see it.. As for Nadal once the Fed fixed his backhand..he was able to negate Nadal’s high bouncy shot playing..actually he beat him like 5 times in row, which included the brilliant final at the Australian Open... But who am I to argue with the champ Wilander..
Rog doesn't get enough credit for reinventing himself at 35 and winning 3 more slams and as you say owning Nadal in phase 2.
Not so lucky against the joker though, funnily enough I too agree in the goat assessment if he wins re that Wimbledon final of 2019..37 years 10 mths of age and fucking should have won goddamit!
Still my favourite player ever though is Roger(and I give exactly zero fucks that he has shed a tear at times, he cares and gives his all emotionally too)and noone will replace that ever.
What an era of tennis players absolutely epic. Djokovic, Feds, Nadal and honourable mentions to Andy Murray and Wawrinka :hearteyes:
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Rog doesn't get enough credit for reinventing himself at 35 and winning 3 more slams and as you say owning Nadal in phase 2.
Not so lucky against the joker though, funnily enough I too agree in the goat assessment if he wins re that Wimbledon final of 2019..37 years 10 mths of age and fucking should have won goddamit!
Still my favourite player ever thouhh Roger(and I give exactly zero fucks that he has shed a tear at times, he cares and gives his all emotionally too)and noone will replace that ever
What an era of tennis players absolutely epic. Djokovic, Feds, Nadal and honourable mentions to Andy Murray and Wawrinka :hearteyes:
if Federer won in 2019 and then retired saying that he had achieved everything he wanted and won Wimbledon at almost 38 years of age beating Nadal in the semi finals and Djokovic in the final, then the numbers would be less relevant... a perfect ending

but for tactics and Roger's deficiencies, they need only look at Federer's unforced errors in those three tie-breaks --> from memory, he made 11 errors which in effect gifted Djokovic 1.5 tie breaks
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
I don't.I acknowledge his skill, mental toughness etc but never found him likeable.
part of my issue (and it is not Nadal's fault) is his relatively poor spoken English... Djokovic and Federer better articulate their thoughts in English
 

Mr 95%

Kennel Immortal
Gilded
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
22,604
Reaction score
23,779
Rog doesn't get enough credit for reinventing himself at 35 and winning 3 more slams and as you say owning Nadal in phase 2.
Not so lucky against the joker though, funnily enough I too agree in the goat assessment if he wins re that Wimbledon final of 2019..37 years 10 mths of age and fucking should have won goddamit!
Still my favourite player ever though is Roger(and I give exactly zero fucks that he has shed a tear at times, he cares and gives his all emotionally too)and noone will replace that ever.
What an era of tennis players absolutely epic. Djokovic, Feds, Nadal and honourable mentions to Andy Murray and Wawrinka :hearteyes:
Great era..got to be the greatest ever...I still cringe about that final!! I cannot think about it..let alone watch it..

Gosh it’s been like 40-50 years of great rivals and players in men’s Tennis; Conners, McEnroe, Borge, Becker, Edberg, Lendl, Wilander, Cash, Sampras, Rafter, Agassi, Hewitt.. Gosh the list goes on.. Same as the women during these years; Navratilova, Graf, Evert, Seles, Sabatini, Williams sisters, Davenport..

Now it’s pretty much.. I have no idea! I guess greats will appear.. It’s just that we have been spoilt with so MUCH greatness I guess..
 

Bulldog1966

Kennel Legend
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
13,080
Reaction score
14,252
part of my issue (and it is not Nadal's fault) is his relatively poor spoken English... Djokovic and Federer better articulate their thoughts in English
Spot on this point too, has improved but has always been very hard to understand.
Admire his will and he never gives up either but I've just never warmed to him..plus his record is a bit too clay dominant.
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
It will be interesting to watch men's tennis once Nadal and Djokovic retire because it will be a bit chaotic IMO... a lot of different GS winners, a lot of changes in the rankings, but I think the likes of Alcaraz, Rune, Sinner & co. will have very good/great careers... that said, I do think the likes of Zverev, Medvedev, Thiem, Rublev etc. have wasted their opportunities against mid-30's legends
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Spot on this point too, has improved but has always been very hard to understand.
Admire his will and he never gives up either but I've just never warmed to him..plus his record is a bit too clay dominant.
I am fascinated by the fact that Nadal is actually right-handed... cannot think of another sporting example of someone using the other hand and being world class... I guess there is Ben Simmons who writes with the right hand and shoots the ball with the left --> but he can't shoot for sh*t
 

GoTheDoggies

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
20,271
Reaction score
19,093
very true... Djokovic has also worked hard on his flexibility, he worked on his net game, having Ivanisevic as his coach has definitely improved his serve, he employs gurus, uses statistical analyses on rivals, hyperbaric chambers for recovery etc... and facing Federer and Nadal in the late noughties with the crowds against him gave him a mental edge --> ironic that hostile Fedal fans created a monster in Djokovic
Fedal fans are sad fanboys, at least Djokovic only his fellow countrymen & women like him.
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Fedal fans are sad fanboys, at least Djokovic only his fellow countrymen & women like him.
there is an interesting phenomenon with all time great tennis players from outside the West and in particular, from Eastern Europe never getting the love from Western (and in particular English speaking) crowds that their Western counterparts enjoy almost automatically --> Lendl, Navratilova, Nastase, Seles and now Novak
 

B-Train

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
32,833
Reaction score
49,124
there is an interesting phenomenon with all time great tennis players from outside the West and in particular, from Eastern Europe never getting the love from Western (and in particular English speaking) crowds that their Western counterparts enjoy almost automatically --> Lendl, Navratilova, Nastase, Seles and now Novak
Who doesn't give Novak credit? Everyone universally agrees that he's one of the greatest ever. Lots of people think he is the greatest ever.

I don't understand why Novak fans get so defensive about who the GOAT is when it's totally a matter of opinion and doesn't diminish another players accomplishments.

I don't know how Novak, or anyone can be the undisputed GOAT when he's tied with Nadal for most slams and Fed only has 2 less than them. And even then, it's about more than stats and who won the most slams as eras are different etc. I think Sampras is close to those three but he retired much earlier. Had he played well into his mid 30's like those three, maybe he would have won another 5 or more slams.
 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
Who doesn't give Novak credit? Everyone universally agrees that he's one of the greatest ever. Lots of people think he is the greatest ever.

I don't understand why Novak fans get so defensive about who the GOAT is when it's totally a matter of opinion and doesn't diminish another players accomplishments.

I don't know how Novak, or anyone can be the undisputed GOAT when he's tied with Nadal for most slams and Fed only has 2 less than them.
I did not say credit, I said love... for example -->

 

alchemist

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,579
Reaction score
6,394
I used to love Lendl. Despite the fact that he showed zero emotion on the court. I also loved Ivanisevic.
with all due respect, Ivanisevic is not an all time great... as for Lendl -->

“Daniil Medvedev, my accountant has a better personality,” he said.

“Daniil Medvedev, he makes Ivan Lendl look like Beyoncé. Daniil Medvedev, Terminator 4 had more facial expressions.”


 
Top