U.S. Politics - Thread

[CaptainJackson]

A biased opinion is a biased opinion regardless of where it comes from.

I said her opinion is skewed ergo biased

 

[alchemist]

One played his part in inciting an attempted insurrection, through stoking fires of hatred and division (stochastic terrorism)

The other gives their measured skewed opinion on things without inciting

There's clearly a difference

rubbish... Maddow's 'Russia collusion' and 'Trump the Putin agent' rants clearly had dangerous implications as to US-Russia relations

 

[alchemist]

I wouldn't call Tucker Carlson or Rachel Maddow "main stream media". They're both opinion show runners. Closer to propaganda machines than actual media.

Maddow and Carlson may not be the traditional, free-to-air 30 minute nightly recitation of the daily events but they are two of the most popular cable "news" shows and the fact that they have given birth to a legal defence against defamation that any such statements they make on their shows are hyperbolic, exaggerations and opinions only and thus, protected by the US First Amendment tells you everything you need to know about the current state of the media... whether by omission, or exaggeration, or by lack of context, or lack of proper sourcing, they are at best misleading and at worst outright liars

 

[CaptainJackson]

rubbish... Maddow's 'Russia collusion' and 'Trump the Putin agent' rants clearly had dangerous implications as to US-Russia relations

Yes yes of course, an investigation into Russian interference into the election initiated by the FBI, with said investigation finding that Russia did interfere in the election and their preference being Donald Trump winning the election, this was all Maddow's doing and she incited the FBI to investigate this.

Meanwhile I'm being very biased against Tucker and Trump by saying their activities/statements were far worse than Maddow's. I mean we only had an attempted violent coup of the government but of course I'm out of line by saying that Maddow and Tucker aren't equivalent and I'm being much too harsh in saying that Tucker was far worse.

Seriously stop being an apologists for Trump and Tucker, they're fascists

 

[CaptainJackson]

Just to be clear, I am not excusing Maddows bias, she clearly is and does sensationalise things

I'm saying tucker Carlson is on a vast different level and KNOWINGLY PARTAKES in stochastic terrorism

 

[alchemist]

Yes yes of course, an investigation into Russian interference into the election initiated by the FBI, with said investigation finding that Russia did interfere in the election and their preference being Donald Trump winning the election, this was all Maddow's doing and she incited the FBI to investigate this.

Meanwhile I'm being very biased against Tucker and Trump by saying their activities/statements were far worse than Maddow's. I mean we only had an attempted violent coup of the government but of course I'm out of line by saying that Maddow and Tucker aren't equivalent and I'm being much too harsh in saying that Tucker was far worse.

Seriously stop being an apologists for Trump and Tucker, they're fascists

firstly, election meddling is common place, especially by the US, and even American election meddling in Russia

secondly, the US intelligence apparatus has clearly demonstrated to be a bad faith actor and so, any supposed intel or investigation about Putin and Russia meddling in the 2016 election has to be taken with a pinch of salt --> eg. https://nypost.com/2022/08/04/alleged-bias-in-hunter-biden-probe-deeply-troubling-fbi-director-wray/

thirdly, even if we accept that it was newsworthy whether Trump had links with Russia and whether Russia interfered in the election in 2016, Maddow's coverage was obviously overblown, alarmist and disingenuous... more than that, it was dangerous on a global stage... for example, as early as January 2017 Maddow was questioning whether Trump would withdraw US troops in Europe left by Obama because of compromising material Putin had on Trump (eg. a tape of a supposed prostitute giving Trump a golden shower)... not only did her coverage of Russiagate further push a Russophobic attitude onto the American population which is wrong on a security level (ie. spreading fear and a need to fight a nuclear superpower in Russia) but it also incentivised Trump into being tough on Russia... for example, the US understood that any withdrawal from Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty would be a destabilising act in Europe (eg. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html) but Trump did it anyway

finally, I'm neither a Trump nor a Tucker Carlson fan... I just find it curious when they push populist ideas since populism by its nature and since the days of the Gracchi are dangerous to the establishment

January 6 was a riot, not an insurrection

and you telling me to stop with ideas contrary to yours is considerably more fascistic than me being a contrarian

 

[CaptainJackson]

January 6 was a riot, not an insurrection

That there, this is why I won't take you seriously.

It was plotted and planned, the current investigations have proven so with witnesses who were part of the process.

You've consistently made excuses for Trump. It has nothing to do with

and you telling me to stop with ideas contrary to yours is considerably more fascistic than me being a contrarian

You've made excuses for Trump non-stop.

It was an insurrection in every way.

As for the rest of your post, again excuses for trumps behaviour. It's non stop excuses.

I'm not here making excuses for maddow, or for US election interference. And your comments about maddows sensationalism being dangerous and forcing Trump to take certain actions is completely laughable. Trump nor Russia don't give a shit what maddow says.

Again excuse after excuse for Trump

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yes yes of course, an investigation into Russian interference into the election initiated by the FBI, with said investigation finding that Russia did interfere in the election and their preference being Donald Trump winning the election, this was all Maddow's doing and she incited the FBI to investigate this.

Meanwhile I'm being very biased against Tucker and Trump by saying their activities/statements were far worse than Maddow's. I mean we only had an attempted violent coup of the government but of course I'm out of line by saying that Maddow and Tucker aren't equivalent and I'm being much too harsh in saying that Tucker was far worse.

Seriously stop being an apologists for Trump and Tucker, they're fascists

Tucker is definitely worse. But Maddow went a bit further than that. At one stage she suggested that Putin had the power to convince Trump to withdraw troops, and she suggested that Trump fired on Syria because Putin asked him to.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

firstly, election meddling is common place, especially by the US, and even American election meddling in Russia

secondly, the US intelligence apparatus has clearly demonstrated to be a bad faith actor and so, any supposed intel or investigation about Putin and Russia meddling in the 2016 election has to be taken with a pinch of salt --> eg. https://nypost.com/2022/08/04/alleged-bias-in-hunter-biden-probe-deeply-troubling-fbi-director-wray/

thirdly, even if we accept that it was newsworthy whether Trump had links with Russia and whether Russia interfered in the election in 2016, Maddow's coverage was obviously overblown, alarmist and disingenuous... more than that, it was dangerous on a global stage... for example, as early as January 2017 Maddow was questioning whether Trump would withdraw US troops in Europe left by Obama because of compromising material Putin had on Trump (eg. a tape of a supposed prostitute giving Trump a golden shower)... not only did her coverage of Russiagate further push a Russophobic attitude onto the American population which is wrong on a security level (ie. spreading fear and a need to fight a nuclear superpower in Russia) but it also incentivised Trump into being tough on Russia... for example, the US understood that any withdrawal from Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty would be a destabilising act in Europe (eg. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html) but Trump did it anyway

finally, I'm neither a Trump nor a Tucker Carlson fan... I just find it curious when they push populist ideas since populism by its nature and since the days of the Gracchi are dangerous to the establishment

January 6 was a riot, not an insurrection

and you telling me to stop with ideas contrary to yours is considerably more fascistic than me being a contrarian

The Russian impact went a lot further than just a loose FBI investigation. There was hundreds of thousands of social media accounts linked to the Russian government that promoted Trump and spread false information about Clinton. Russian agents were arrested and indicted for their role. Trump campaign officials even confirmed that they were aware of Russia's campaign for Trump and they even encouraged it, but they stopped short of collusion. There was strong enough stuff there, but still no excuse for Maddow to go over the top and effectively claim Trump to be a Russian agent.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

That there, this is why I won't take you seriously.

It was plotted and planned, the current investigations have proven so with witnesses who were part of the process.

You've consistently made excuses for Trump. It has nothing to do with




You've made excuses for Trump non-stop.

It was an insurrection in every way.

As for the rest of your post, again excuses for trumps behaviour. It's non stop excuses.

I'm not here making excuses for maddow, or for US election interference. And your comments about maddows sensationalism being dangerous and forcing Trump to take certain actions is completely laughable. Trump nor Russia don't give a shit what maddow says.

Again excuse after excuse for Trump

Yep. It was 100% insurrection. It was a violent uprising against the government in attempts to stop the presidential political process. It was the definition of insurrection. What they're debating now is whether Trump incited it.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Tucker is definitely worse. But Maddow went a bit further than that. At one stage she suggested that Putin had the power to convince Trump to withdraw troops, and she suggested that Trump fired on Syria because Putin asked him to.

Again Hacky I'm not excusing Maddow. To have a "whataboutism" of Maddow vs Tucker is on completely different levels.

Maddow said those things about Trump

1. Trump is not going to be influenced by what Maddow said, he calls them fake news
2. Putin is not going to be influenced by what Maddow said, he sends his fake news propagators which vastly combat Maddow's sensationalism
3. The only American voters influenced by what Maddow said, are people who already vote against Trump.
4. Trump voters think MSNBC is fake news, again not influenced by Maddow
5. From first hand, real life examples, we see that there were no riots nor insurrections off Maddow's bias


Meanwhile compare this to the daily non-stop hatred, division, white nationalism and fascism that Tucker spreads, not forgetting he is the most watched cable program in the USA

Trump is not the reason for those fascist tendencies within the GOP and the GOP supporter base, it was GOP senators/congressman and FOX news through decades of O'Reilly, Hannity, Tucker, etc who stoked those racist, homophobic, sexist, bigotry flames and then came along Trump who completely opened the can to let the worms fly out.

There is no comparison. Tucker is on a scale all by himself. He is evil and it's extremely worrying that people listen to his propaganda, shown by his encouragement of "the big lie" and the insurrection

 

[alchemist]

The Russian impact went a lot further than just a loose FBI investigation. There was hundreds of thousands of social media accounts linked to the Russian government that promoted Trump and spread false information about Clinton. Russian agents were arrested and indicted for their role. Trump campaign officials even confirmed that they were aware of Russia's campaign for Trump and they even encouraged it, but they stopped short of collusion. There was strong enough stuff there, but still no excuse for Maddow to go over the top and effectively claim Trump to be a Russian agent.

so, in effect some social media accounts, arrests and indictments but with the presumption of innocence, and the Trump campaign knowing that the Russians preferred he win over Hillary Clinton... not strong

 

[Psycho Doggie]

 

[CaptainJackson]

Yep. It was 100% insurrection. It was a violent uprising against the government in attempts to stop the presidential political process. It was the definition of insurrection. What they're debating now is whether Trump incited it.

I believe the DOJ is now investigating it (they announced it) so it's no longer debating. The Jan 6th investigation has provided enough evidence for the DOJ to commence investigations

 

[Hacky McAxe]

so, in effect some social media accounts, arrests and indictments but with the presumption of innocence, and the Trump campaign knowing that the Russians preferred he win over Hillary Clinton... not strong

Plus the order from Putin that was verified. He ordered his people to hack the democrats and leak those emails to Wikileaks.

Still not saying that Trump had any collusion. Just that Russia definitely influenced the election through propaganda and fake news.

 

[alchemist]

Plus the order from Putin that was verified. He ordered his people to hack the democrats and leak those emails to Wikileaks.

Still not saying that Trump had any collusion. Just that Russia definitely influenced the election through propaganda and fake news.

Julian Assange did though deny the claim that the Russian Government was the source of the emails

that said, propaganda and fake news exists everywhere and push all kinds of agendas and political candidates... and they can be very successful if they can create a narrative that people buy into... for example -->

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546202397084721160

one of the EU's most important figures conceding that the West is losing the narrative war with Russia in the global south and that is testament to Russia's ability to play up "the West vs the rest" or as Putin put it --> the golden billion feeding off the majority of the world for their own benefit... very well done

as for what influence Russia had on the 2016 election, it is hard to know... but considering just how big and powerful and diverse and complex the US is, it is hard to imagine Russian fake news could play a significant role

if you're interested, this is a good read -->

and if you are in a conspiratorial mood, Oliver Stone spins an interesting 2016 election meddling tale of Ukrainian efforts to get Hillary Clinton elected in "Revealing Ukraine"

 

[CaptainJackson]

Tucker promotes this same fascist, who's advisor quit because he said that Orban was too close to a neo-nazi

And CPAC are giving a standing ovation to this same fascist scum

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555279528024346624

I cant believe that the world is repeating 1930s Germany

-----

Alchemist I'm not having a go at you, this Victor Orban at CPAC is happening now. Just a coincidence that we were discussing it and this guy is giving his thoughts at CPAC

 

[alchemist]

Orban is a fascinating figure... in the same week he is labelled as racist by the EU, he is speaking and getting an ovation at CPAC... this world is becoming more and more bizarre

 

[The DoggFather]

View attachment 57843

Always hated The fat man.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is just a shill being used to fire up the inbred dumb fucks of Murika.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Orban is a fascinating figure... in the same week he is labelled as racist by the EU, he is speaking and getting an ovation at CPAC... this world is becoming more and more bizarre

How is that bizarre?

It's quite common. Anyone who is labelled racist or far-right usually ends up as a speaker at CPAC.