Pope Francis resigning?

[Realist90]

The Catholic Churches teachings have never changed. Anything which has been introduced as Dogma in the history of the church was already known and believed throughout the centuries. There are many reasons why teachings become Dogma "All of a Sudden", one of the most known reason for this is when heresy groups form and start to challenge the Churches teachings on certain things such as The Immaculate Conception of Mary. The Church felt it was necessary to "Officially" make it a dogma to make it clear and dispel false teachings. Teachings were NEVER invented but rather Developed because they were already known and believed. Another Dogma which was developed was referring to Mary as the "Mother of God". There were heresy groups which stated that Mary was not the Mother of God but only the Mother of Jesus. Now this isn't true because as Christians we believe that Jesus is both human and Divine(one person with two natures). The Catholic church found it necessary to make referring to Mary as the "Mother of God" because it directly affects who Jesus is and to dispel heresy groups. Again, these teachings are accepted and believed way way way before they became Dogma.

Very well put brother.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Lol you wanna sperge some dumb ass comment comparing a schism to a civil war and the church being destroyed in the 2000 years then have a sook you’re being taken at face value lol.

Literally nothing changed, it took time for the church to understand what they were defining for example the holy trinity, the immaculate birth of mary, but it was always a “thing” within the church but took time to develop the terms and to put it into text. If that’s what you’re talking about then yeah again you’re showing a lack of knowledge on the matter whilst carrying on like you’ve cracked a code lol.
And back to the schism, the Roman Catholic Church is still the Roman Catholic Church with many churches from the east in communion with the Pope which still makes them catholic like mine for example the Maronite rite.

There’s plenty of legit catholic theologians like Trent horn you can listen to who gives a much more thorough and understandable explanation than I can give. So if you’re actually legit about your dispute and your confusion, one is indeed searching for truth will always have an open mind to being corrected in this context where you think you know what you’re talking about in regards to the Catholic Church and the dogma changing.

In point of fact the nature of your response and the personal attacks you've been engaging in only reveal one thing, that this subject has hit a nerve, and that you are unable to respond with any sense of maturity or decorum. This is generally a telling sign. When people don't have a good defence, they go on the attack.

I've spoken to plenty of Catholics who are more than prepared to acknowledge that the majority of the dogmas, customs, rites, and traditions that they associate with their religion do not date back to the first century, or any where near it. I think they'd be frankly embarrassed to know that a fellow believer states "literally nothing has changed".

 

[Psycho Doggie]

The Catholic Churches teachings have never changed. Anything which has been introduced as Dogma in the history of the church was already known and believed throughout the centuries. There are many reasons why teachings become Dogma "All of a Sudden", one of the most known reason for this is when heresy groups form and start to challenge the Churches teachings on certain things such as The Immaculate Conception of Mary. The Church felt it was necessary to "Officially" make it a dogma to make it clear and dispel false teachings. Teachings were NEVER invented but rather Developed because they were already known and believed. Another Dogma which was developed was referring to Mary as the "Mother of God". There were heresy groups which stated that Mary was not the Mother of God but only the Mother of Jesus. Now this isn't true because as Christians we believe that Jesus is both human and Divine(one person with two natures). The Catholic church found it necessary to make referring to Mary as the "Mother of God" because it directly affects who Jesus is and to dispel heresy groups. Again, these teachings are accepted and believed way way way before they became Dogma.

What is the earliest date that belief of Mary as the mother of God can be definitively placed?

 

[Realist90]

In point of fact the nature of your response and the personal attacks you've been engaging in only reveal one thing, that this subject has hit a nerve, and that you are unable to respond with any sense of maturity or decorum. This is generally a telling sign. When people don't have a good defence, they go on the attack.

I've spoken to plenty of Catholics who are more than prepared to acknowledge that the majority of the dogmas, customs, rites, and traditions that they associate with their religion do not date back to the first century, or any where near it. I think they'd be frankly embarrassed to know that a fellow believer states "literally nothing has changed".

Wth are you on about you literally come out with personal attacks and false narratives and then act like a victim. It’s a common thing with you people, just go and have a look at All the responses to my comments in other threads lol. I don’t attack anyone but they’re very happy to start the personal attacks just like you but then act like victims of a “personal attack” when they hear something they don’t like. You are just blatantly misrepresenting history and truth and you can’t accept you might be wrong. I even offered you a great source in Trent Horn for your education on the matter because I know how deeply you love truth.

I’ve spoken to plenty of Catholics who don’t fully believe the holy Eucharist is the actual body of Christ. Your argument has no substance. It means absolutely nothing to say “I know Catholics…….” I guess I should be embarrassed because there’s some Catholics who don’t believe or accept that the bread becomes the body of Christ.
Or some Catholics believe in gay marriage and abortion rights and find me embarrassing for following the actual Catholic Church and not what I as a individual think. Do you see how your argument is ridiculous?

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Wth are you on about you literally come out with personal attacks and false narratives and then act like a victim. It’s a common thing with you people, just go and have a look at All the responses to my comments in other threads lol. I don’t attack anyone but they’re very happy to start the personal attacks just like you but then act like victims of a “personal attack” when they hear something they don’t like. You are just blatantly misrepresenting history and truth and you can’t accept you might be wrong. I even offered you a great source in Trent Horn for your education on the matter because I know how deeply you love truth.

I’ve spoken to plenty of Catholics who don’t fully believe the holy Eucharist is the actual body of Christ. Your argument has no substance. It means absolutely nothing to say “I know Catholics…….” I guess I should be embarrassed because there’s some Catholics who don’t believe or accept that the bread becomes the body of Christ.
Or some Catholics believe in gay marriage and abortion rights and find me embarrassing for following the actual Catholic Church and not what I as a individual think. Do you see how your argument is ridiculous?

I'm not really interested in a mud slinging contest, but it is interesting that you read me as making personal attacks when you were the one referring to me as an "it"

Here we have someone that thinks it’s educated on the matter without realising it isn’t

And referring to sooking, making dumbass comments, etc. I think you'll be hard pressed to locate any remarks I've made in your direction that are as crude a personal attack.

In the process you haven't for a moment begun to address the initial point I raised, or seriously engage with any of the additional ones.

 

[Realist90]

I'm not really interested in a mud slinging contest, but it is interesting that you read me as making personal attacks when you were the one referring to me as an "it"

And referring to sooking, making dumbass comments, etc. I think you'll be hard pressed to locate any remarks I've made in your direction that are as crude a personal attack.

In the process you haven't for a moment begun to address the initial point I raised, or seriously engage with any of the additional ones.

Lol you’re fried bud. Literally addressed it and your response is “you know Catholics who say otherwise”

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Lol you’re fried bud. Literally addressed it and your response is “you know Catholics who say otherwise”

Wait, and that is a personal attack on you? Wow, that seems rather sensitive. Meanwhile, the person who is upset about me making personal attacks on them is calling me fried... interesting.

Further evidence that you don't have a decent response to me, the attacks keep coming.

 

[dogwhisperer]

What is the earliest date that belief of Mary as the mother of God can be definitively placed?

The belief was from the very beginning. The disciples acknowledged Christ as the Son of God therefore Christ is God because the Son cannot have a different nature to His Father, just like how my own son is 100% human because he cannot have a different nature to my 100% human self. Therefore if Jesus is God and Mary is His mother then Mary is the mother of God.

Nestorius who was a Christian theologian wrongfully taught that the human and Devine essences of Christ are separate and that there were two persons in Christ. But that was heresy teaching as Christ is One person with two natures(Devine & Human), hence meaning that if Mary is the mother of Jesus then she is also the mother of God.

In opposing the teaching of Nestorius, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD formalized the idea of the Virgin Mary as theotokos Mother of God. And it became Dogma. Something becoming Dogma doesn’t mean it wasn’t widely believed from the very beginning, it was just made formal.

 

[dogwhisperer]

In point of fact the nature of your response and the personal attacks you've been engaging in only reveal one thing, that this subject has hit a nerve, and that you are unable to respond with any sense of maturity or decorum. This is generally a telling sign. When people don't have a good defence, they go on the attack.

I've spoken to plenty of Catholics who are more than prepared to acknowledge that the majority of the dogmas, customs, rites, and traditions that they associate with their religion do not date back to the first century, or any where near it. I think they'd be frankly embarrassed to know that a fellow believer states "literally nothing has changed".

Lol…nothing new there mate. I was also one of those Catholics who thought the same until I educated myself about Catholic teachings and it’s history. There are millions of Catholics that are just Catholic by name just because they were baptized Catholic but do not practice the faith or understand it’s history and teachings.

Of course there’s going to be some differences between the early church and the Church as it is today. St Peter never rode around in a Pope mobile or dressed in a white garment with red shoes which is a Papal tradition, things like that and many other customs and traditions I can point out that are immaterial to one’s salvation doesn’t mean it’s not the same Church which existed 2000 years ago. The Church has continued to evolve and develop but the essential beliefs have been around since day dot.

A big oak tree was once upon a time a little shrub. It doesn’t mean it’s a different tree. It looked different to when it was a tiny tree but it’s still the same tree.

 

[Kelpie03]

A good salesperson will convince you there is a God. A great salesperson will convince you that they are a God.

If you have a good honest look at it, you will find that all the top sales people are and have been working for the Omen, Greed is good, sex any time with anyone in any way possible, sodomy gives you untold pleasure abort unborn Children at will, no need for some sort of marital agreement.
When we end up like Sodom and Gomorah, who cares we've enjoyed every minute of it.

 

[Realist90]

Wait, and that is a personal attack on you? Wow, that seems rather sensitive. Meanwhile, the person who is upset about me making personal attacks on them is calling me fried... interesting.

Further evidence that you don't have a decent response to me, the attacks keep coming.

Bro you brought up “personal attacks” I couldn’t care lol but don’t be a hypocrite. All you’re doing is sooking about something irrelevant instead of finding the facts for your lack of knowledge on the matter.

 

[Realist90]

Lol…nothing new there mate. I was also one of those Catholics who thought the same until I educated myself about Catholic teachings and it’s history. There are millions of Catholics that are just Catholic by name just because they were baptized Catholic but do not practice the faith or understand it’s history and teachings.

Of course there’s going to be some differences between the early church and the Church as it is today. St Peter never rode around in a Pope mobile or dressed in a white garment with red shoes which is a Papal tradition, things like that and many other customs and traditions I can point out that are immaterial to one’s salvation doesn’t mean it’s not the same Church which existed 2000 years ago. The Church has continued to evolve and develop but the essential beliefs have been around since day dot.

A big oak tree was once upon a time a little shrub. It doesn’t mean it’s a different tree. It looked different to when it was a tiny tree but it’s still the same tree.

Yes

 

[Kelpie03]

You're cooked NFI

I haven't forgoten how you posted a lot of malicious stuff, which could only have been motivated by hate, without saying where the stuff came from.

 

[dogwhisperer]

If you have a good honest look at it, you will find that all the top sales people are and have been working for the Omen, Greed is good, sex any time with anyone in any way possible, sodomy gives you untold pleasure abort unborn Children at will, no need for some sort of marital agreement.
When we end up like Sodom and Gomorah, who cares we've enjoyed every minute of it.

In other words he/she is trying to tell you that Christians are “good” sales people and Jesus is a “great” salesperson. Subtle, but that’s what this person is trying to say.

 

[Kelpie03]

According to the Old Testament the Jews are the favourite. A view of history will teach us that being the favourite is a mixed blessing, to put it mildly...

The Jews thought/wanted to be Gods favourits, some say that they still believe or want to be that.
In the past it was reportered that the Jews turned on Jesus because they thought/wanted him to be the messiah which would drive the Romans out and make them masters of the world.
I suspect that the Catholic Church deleted this idea, following the 2nd world War in order to stop anti semitism building up.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

If you have a good honest look at it, you will find that all the top sales people are and have been working for the Omen, Greed is good, sex any time with anyone in any way possible, sodomy gives you untold pleasure abort unborn Children at will, no need for some sort of marital agreement.
When we end up like Sodom and Gomorah, who cares we've enjoyed every minute of it.

Not sure why you think that is the mentality of salespeople.

We live in a modern society that accepts all people for who they are. If religion works against that then religion has no place in modern society.

Fortunately most religious don't work against acceptance of all. But unfortunately some do. And they use God as an excuse to defend their hatred.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

In other words he/she is trying to tell you that Christians are “good” sales people and Jesus is a “great” salesperson. Subtle, but that’s what this person is trying to say.

That was purely in reply to Kelpie saying that only Jesus was true and all other religions were just sales people selling a false narrative.

Irs fine to believe it. But it's insulting to other religions to say that they are just charlatans.

 

[Kelpie03]

In other words he/she is trying to tell you that Christians are “good” sales people and Jesus is a “great” salesperson. Subtle, but that’s what this person is trying to say.

Nice to have you back Bro, I get a lot of confidence having people like you around.
AS for sales people selling their Religious product, I was saying/suggesting that the non Christian Religions, were started by "Profits" who are real humans, and they must have done a good job because they did convince a lot of people.
As for Jesus, dying on the cross, was hardly a great sales pitch, if we look at it in human terms/wishes.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I haven't forgoten how you posted a lot of malicious stuff, which could only have been motivated by hate, without saying where the stuff came from.

Nope. There's been a common theme where some have taken offence due to a perpetual victim complex, rather than offence actually caused

In other words, I'm saying from your posts (in regards to the context of my past posts) you've taken offence were none was caused due to you wanting to be a victim.

 

[Realist90]

Nice to have you back Bro, I get a lot of confidence having people like you around.
AS for sales people selling their Religious product, I was saying/suggesting that the non Christian Religions, were started by "Profits" who are real humans, and they must have done a good job because they did convince a lot of people.
As for Jesus, dying on the cross, was hardly a great sales pitch, if we look at it in human terms/wishes.

You bring up a very good point. In human eyes, Jesus failed because he died and didn’t destroy the evil people at the time or save himself off the cross. Man likes to sometimes tell God what God should or should’ve done as if we have an ounce of the wisdom and knowledge God has. I fail to know a single other religion where God sends himself as fully man and fully God to die for our sins to pay a debt he needed not to but did so because of his merciful love. So you’re right in human eyes it’s a shocking sales pitch to tell people oh look our saviour died, he rose again but also you’re going To have to suffer just as this Jesus guy did.
The only way people actually believed this, was due to many many witnesses to actual historic events and many miracles along the way. Many miracles happened even within the colosseum when Christian’s were used as entertainment for the pagans and blamed for everything. I mean who would suffer as actual martyrs (not men blowing themselves and others up) the way they did if they did not know these things to be true.
People like to ignore this because it kills the whole narrative of “Omg Christian’s are so evil reeeeeeeeeee they killed all the pagans reeeeeeeee”