Rumour Oil/Inside Information/Prediction - Consolidated Thread

[bulldogsmyte]

Yep and you've said in this thread that you don't hold any asterisks against those premierships...

Have you got any evidence to back that statement up? I mean I could say if Cronk played in the 80's he would have won 8 premierships. Also I'm not sure if anyone would call Cronk, dumb.

If you read my posts I said I don't consider Cronk's GF prior to 2012 as legit because of salary cap cheating and that his GF after 2010 only time will tell because he won them with 2 contracts Melbourne and Uncle Nick's Chooks. Unless its changed recently the NRL salary cap audit is run by a bunch of amatuers. First the Dogs only got caught in 2002 not because of the NRL as it was uncovered by chance by a journalist investigating the Oasis development in Liverpool Council who came across payments to the Dogs. The NRL only found out when it reported in the papers.
This was because the NRL cap auditor (Ian Schubert at that time, a former player with the Chooks and Wests) did not have access to the players tax returns. He took on face value what the clubs told him. Is he even a qualified tax accountant, auditor or CFA (chartered financial analyst)? This is how 2 contracts Melbourne got away with cap cheating to win the 07 and 09 GF because they presented a fake player's contract to the NRL and the real players contracts (Cronk, Slater, Smith, Inglis etc) stayed behind closed doors. If the NRL CEO had any intelligence then the person in charge of the salary cap audit should have the following:
1) Bachelor of Commerce major in accounting and finance
2) CFA qualifications
3) Chartered accountant qualifications- this qualification is far higher than a CPA.
4) Minimum 10 years of professional auditing
5) Full access to all players tax returns, leagues and football clubs tax returns and balance sheets
6) Ongoing consultation with the ATO
Instead we had a former player in charge of the cap audit with no access to tax returns and relying on good will from clubs, i.e no due diligence. Under his watch it was brought to his attention from other parties that the dogs cheated in 02 and Melbourne cheated their way to 2 GF.
Given the above there is no guarantee that the Cronk's GF after 2010 are legit either as it took several years before the truth was exposed about 07/09 Melbourne.
>"I could say if Cronk played in the 80's he would have won 8 premierships."
Yes you could and it would also show that you're off with the fairies.

 

[COVENS]

If you read my posts I said I don't consider Cronk's GF prior to 2012 as legit because of salary cap cheating and that his GF after 2010 only time will tell because he won them with 2 contracts Melbourne and Uncle Nick's Chooks. Unless its changed recently the NRL salary cap audit is run by a bunch of amatuers. First the Dogs only got caught in 2002 not because of the NRL as it was uncovered by chance by a journalist investigating the Oasis development in Liverpool Council who came across payments to the Dogs. The NRL only found out when it reported in the papers.
This was because the NRL cap auditor (Ian Schubert at that time, a former player with the Chooks and Wests) did not have access to the players tax returns. He took on face value what the clubs told him. Is he even a qualified tax accountant, auditor or CFA (chartered financial analyst)? This is how 2 contracts Melbourne got away with cap cheating to win the 07 and 09 GF because they presented a fake player's contract to the NRL and the real players contracts (Cronk, Slater, Smith, Inglis etc) stayed behind closed doors. If the NRL CEO had any intelligence then the person in charge of the salary cap audit should have the following:
1) Bachelor of Commerce major in accounting and finance
2) CFA qualifications
3) Chartered accountant qualifications- this qualification is far higher than a CPA.
4) Minimum 10 years of professional auditing
5) Full access to all players tax returns, leagues and football clubs tax returns and balance sheets
6) Ongoing consultation with the ATO
Instead we had a former player in charge of the cap audit with no access to tax returns and relying on good will from clubs, i.e no due diligence. Under his watch it was brought to his attention from other parties that the dogs cheated in 02 and Melbourne cheated their way to 2 GF.
Given the above there is no guarantee that the Cronk's GF after 2010 are legit either as it took several years before the truth was exposed about 07/09 Melbourne.
>"I could say if Cronk played in the 80's he would have won 8 premierships."
Yes you could and it would also show that you're off with the fairies.

So we agree, using outlandish hypotheticals with no evidence is completely asinine.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

So we agree, using outlandish hypotheticals with no evidence is completely asinine.

You forget you're the one presenting the hypotheticals. I've put forward the facts and evidence.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

I love Baa, He’s a legend and one of my favourite players.But I don’t think he was better than Kenny.He was definitely more durable than Kenny

Kenny was more elusive and brilliant in attack but Baa was the better defender and sustained his form well over a decade and into the mid 90's. Kenny was past his best after 86 and was an elite player for about 6 years or so.

 

[COVENS]

You forget you're the one presenting the hypotheticals. I've put forward the facts and evidence.

You're literally saying we should question Cronks premierships bona fides because there might be salary cap compliance issues that haven't arisen yet.

You've also suggested Kenny, Sterling, Mortimer and Lamb would run rings around today's halves because they were part time tradies.

Aren't they examples of you using hypotheticals?

 

[D0GMATIC]

Kenny was more elusive and brilliant in attack but Baa was the better defender and sustained his form well over a decade and into the mid 90's. Kenny was past his best after 86 and was an elite player for about 6 years or so.

It’s a bit deceiving though. The Bulldogs were a far better club.And the team continued to make the finals and remain a force. Where as Parra didn’t make the finals again after 86 for quite a while. Kenny was trying to carry a shit team,Parra’s results weren’t indicative of his performances.Where as Baa was still part of a good team which was a finals threat.Baa had more 5/8 of year awards, Yet Kenny had a better rep career. They were both Iconic players that had remarkably successful careers.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

You're literally saying we should question Cronks premierships bona fides because there might be salary cap compliance issues that haven't arisen yet.

You've also suggested Kenny, Sterling, Mortimer and Lamb would run rings around today's halves because they were part time tradies.

Aren't they examples of you using hypotheticals?

Did you even read my posts?
1) NRL salary cap auditors run by amatuers. If it was run professionally 2 contracts Melbourne would have been detected in the year of the offence via examination of the tax return. In fact the auditor should also have access to all players bank accounts as well.
2) Cronk played for a team that was caught systemically cheating to obtain 2 GF. What has NRL done with the salary cap audit process to ensure it doesn't happen again? Does the auditor have access to all tax returns and bank accounts? If not then the same cheating will happen again and it will take years down the track to detect it if at all. That's why I said Cronk's GF after 2010 may have question marks down the track.
3) Cronk played for the Chooks that has dubious official below market salaries for several of their players. The brown paper bag reference originated from a star legendary player they recruited during the super league days.
4) Kenny, Sterling, Mortimer and Lamb have qualities that is missing from many halves these days, namely intelligence and natural ability. They don't have to be spoon fed how to play, whether they should pass or kick. They all knew innately what to do. As for Mortimer if you were a true doggies fan you would know that he had blinding acceleration and over 20 to 50 metres the only player who could match or better him was Morris senior. Under the 10 metre rule and 6 again he would rip the defence apart easily. Mortimer was genetically blessed with fast twitch muscles and this is something that cannot be trained into athletes who do not have that DNA.
5) The fact that most players of the 70's and 80's had trades showed they had discipline and enough intelligence to learn a trade. Many of today's players can barely string a sentence together because they don't have the brains to get a meaningful degree or even a trade and spend their free time on play station or online gaming. They even brag about it. Most of them are thick as a brick. Watch any player interview today and there's a 99% chance they'll use the word "obviously" no matter what sentence they are saying.
It seems to me that you're a millennial.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

It’s a bit deceiving though. The Bulldogs were a far better club.And the team continued to make the finals and remain a force. Where as Parra didn’t make the finals again after 86 for quite a while. Kenny was trying to carry a shit team,Parra’s results weren’t indicative of his performances.Where as Baa was still part of a good team which was a finals threat.Baa had more 5/8 of year awards, Yet Kenny had a better rep career. They were both Iconic players that had remarkably successful careers.

True to a certain extent but Sterlo and Kenny still had each other after 86. They just weren't able to carry the team after Price and Cronin left. Turvey retired after 88 and a year or so later 4 of our best rep players (Cement, Langmack, Thomas, Farrar) left for Wests. Baa had to carry the team until 93 and we generally finished higher on the ladder than Parra during the remaining years of Baa's career. Baa was more suited to week in week out teams than rep teams as a lot of his attack was based on support play and knowing when and where his team mates would offload or break the line. He wouldn't get the opportunity to do this at rep teams where they only train for limited times before the game.

 

[D0GMATIC]

Mortimer was a better player than Cronk. Cronk was a good organised half with great attention to detail who improved the longer he played. Where as Mortimer was a freak and a sensation from day 1. Mortimer ripped the Bulldogs apart and was man of the match in a mid week game when he was playing for Riverina. Bullfrog signed him up straight away. He had blinding speed and evasiveness which created chances for everyone around him and he won plenty of games with his brilliance alone,And his pace meant his cover defence was amazing. He regularly flew across and cut down players who had made breaks, often taking them into touch. He did it 3 times in the 80 gf.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Mortimer was a better player than Cronk. Cronk was a good organised half with with great attention to detail who improved the longer he played. Where as Mortimer was a freak and a sensation from day 1. Mortimer ripped the Bulldogs apart and was man of the match in a mid week game when he was playing for Riverina. Bullfrog signed him up straight away. He had blinding speed and evasiveness which created chances for everyone around him and he won plenty of games with his brilliance alone,And his pace meant his cover defence was amazing. He regularly flew across and cut down players who had made breaks, often taking them into touch. He did it 3 times in the 80 gf.

Good to hear from a fan who knows the Doggies history. Just adding in to that Amco match the Dogs won the game however Mortimer was an amatuer at the time playing for an amatuer country team and yet he ripped the Dogs apart. When Bullfrog was asked by reporters what he thought of Mortimer he famously said "he'll never play against the Bulldogs ever again" and essentially signed him up for life. You're right he saved 3 tries in the 80 GF and he saved even more when we were narrowly beaten by Saints in the 79 GF. Any fan on TK who thinks Cronk and other HB of the past decade are better than Turvey either never saw Turvey play or just plain blind or dumb.

 

[D0GMATIC]

Good to hear from a fan who knows the Doggies history. Just adding in to that Amco match the Dogs won the game however Mortimer was an amatuer at the time playing for an amatuer country team and yet he ripped the Dogs apart. When Bullfrog was asked by reporters what he thought of Mortimer he famously said "he'll never play against the Bulldogs ever again" and essentially signed him up for life. You're right he saved 3 tries in the 80 GF and he saved even more when we were narrowly beaten by Saints in the 79 GF. Any fan on TK who thinks Cronk and other HB of the past decade are better than Turvey either never saw Turvey play or just plain blind or dumb.

It was a different time though, obviously. They only trained a few times a week and at least one of those would he been at the pub lol. Cronin made the Australian team from Gerringong. Western Division won the amco cup. The difference wasn’t as big before professionalism.

I’m probably biased , but Mortimer is the best I’ve seen. You could make a case for Thurston too, but there’s a gap to the rest IMO.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

It was a different time though, obviously. They only trained a few times a week and at least one of those would he been at the pub lol. Cronin made the Australian team from Gerringong. Western Division won the amco cup. The difference wasn’t as big before professionalism.

I’m probably biased , but Mortimer is the best I’ve seen. You could make a case for Thurston too, but there’s a gap to the rest IMO.

For me it's Mortimer then Sterling and the order for the rest is debatable. There's a lot of fanfare for Johns and Thurston but their finals records are far inferior to Langer and Cronk.

 

[D0GMATIC]

For me it's Mortimer then Sterling and the order for the rest is debatable. There's a lot of fanfare for Johns and Thurston but their finals records are far inferior to Langer and Cronk.

That’s true. If finals records are your biggest determining factor. But surely you would take these things into account also . . . representative football must be considered, he played 37 origins, 36 of those were consecutive .5 man of the matches. and 38 tests with an exceptional winning strike rate Which Thurston excelled at in comparison to Mortimer and Sterling. Thurston had a better all round kicking game . Was a prodigious goal kicker who scored 2200+points. He won 3 golden boots, 4 Dally M Player of the year awards ,was DallyM halfback 4 times and 5/8 three times and a won Clive Churchill medal. He also played more games and more seasons too.

 

[COVENS]

Did you even read my posts?
1) NRL salary cap auditors run by amatuers. If it was run professionally 2 contracts Melbourne would have been detected in the year of the offence via examination of the tax return. In fact the auditor should also have access to all players bank accounts as well.
2) Cronk played for a team that was caught systemically cheating to obtain 2 GF. What has NRL done with the salary cap audit process to ensure it doesn't happen again? Does the auditor have access to all tax returns and bank accounts? If not then the same cheating will happen again and it will take years down the track to detect it if at all. That's why I said Cronk's GF after 2010 may have question marks down the track.
3) Cronk played for the Chooks that has dubious official below market salaries for several of their players. The brown paper bag reference originated from a star legendary player they recruited during the super league days.
4) Kenny, Sterling, Mortimer and Lamb have qualities that is missing from many halves these days, namely intelligence and natural ability. They don't have to be spoon fed how to play, whether they should pass or kick. They all knew innately what to do. As for Mortimer if you were a true doggies fan you would know that he had blinding acceleration and over 20 to 50 metres the only player who could match or better him was Morris senior. Under the 10 metre rule and 6 again he would rip the defence apart easily. Mortimer was genetically blessed with fast twitch muscles and this is something that cannot be trained into athletes who do not have that DNA.
5) The fact that most players of the 70's and 80's had trades showed they had discipline and enough intelligence to learn a trade. Many of today's players can barely string a sentence together because they don't have the brains to get a meaningful degree or even a trade and spend their free time on play station or online gaming. They even brag about it. Most of them are thick as a brick. Watch any player interview today and there's a 99% chance they'll use the word "obviously" no matter what sentence they are saying.
It seems to me that you're a millennial.

Yep and what I'm saying is that until actually proven, points 1,2 and 3 don't mean anything.

4) That's incorrect. The talent is there, the difference is coaches are more interested in high percentage team plays then allowing a player to showcase solo natural ability. For example chip and chases are just about dead because teams shut the corridor or read the kick.

Yep, Mortimer was quick but as we know Cronk was as quick as Slater over 20 because of the same twitch muscles. We don't have the data but I think we can safely assume with advances in sports science and efficiencies that today's players are generally faster.

5) You've goosed it here mate, heard of the RLPA NRL Academic Team of the Year?

As of 2016 "800 of the 1000 NRL and NYC players are currently engaged in further education or workplace training."

Most recently:

2020 NRL academic team of the year

The NRL and the RLPA have announced the 2020 Academic Team of the Year, celebrating the academic achievements of the game's stars.

www.google.com

Other examples:

NRL's Academic Team of the Year announced

The dedication of players away from the football field was recognised on Tuesday night with 13 players announced as members of the 2018 Academic Team of the Year at the RLPA Players' Champion Awards.

www.google.com

2016 NRL-RLPA Academic Team of the Year

Seven debutants were named alongside five two-time winners and a three-time recipient as part of the 2016 NRL-RLPA Academic Team of the Year.

www.nrl.com

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Keep coming here for oil but there isn't any

 

[diddly]

Turveys cover defence was incredible - Sattler\s covering tackle in the gf is replayed and highlighted (deservedly) - Turvey made multiple similar or better tackles in gf but they never get the credit they deserve

 

[TABOO]

Keep coming here for oil but there isn't any

Greenpeace came and locked it down.

 

[MountMontoya]

Keep coming here for oil but there isn't any

stop saying oil

before you know it the American Army will be here trying to give us democracy for the oil

 

[DinkumDog]

stop saying oil

before you know it the American Army will be here trying to give us democracy for the oil

It’s OK mate.
Soon Iraq will invade America to restore democracy and instil regime change .

 

[DinkumDog]

Keep coming here for oil but there isn't any

Josh Addo-Carr will be announced yesterday.
Does that help? .