Controversy Corner - Grahame Hughes on Dean Pay and whats going on

[GDR]

Not saying it is, but if we're going to play like this for another season then I'm really not that interested...I'm sure crowd numbers and memberships will also continue to fall. I'm just saying I'm convinced the board won't take accountability for this and will continue to treat the fans like idiots.

It is clear what our biggest problem is atm ... and hopefully the coach is removed for next season ... problem is, who can we possibly convince to come here, that is worth having.

I honestly believe there is more ability in this team then we are currently seeing and hopefully with a few more astute signings this off season and a better coach, we can see a dramatic improvement next year..

 

[Wahesh]

C'mon now you don't mean that.

Dude it's sarcasm!

 

[Wahesh]

Not saying it is, but if we're going to play like this for another season then I'm really not that interested...I'm sure crowd numbers and memberships will also continue to fall. I'm just saying I'm convinced the board won't take accountability for this and will continue to treat the fans like idiots.

Here's the thing, the previous board and coach are accountable. But the current board doesn't want to take accountability for the problems caused by the previous board.

If you start a job and the your predecessor made a major error, would you want to be held accountable for it? Of course not. It's the same in this case.

It all comes down to Dib and Raelene giving Des too much power. They are the reason we're in this mess right now!

 

[Dingo]

Dude it's sarcasm!

That's why I said you don't mean it.

To be honest I don't like even being sarcastic about our ultimate demise.

It gives ammunition to our enemies.

 

[Wahesh]

That's why I said you don't mean it.

To be honest I don't like even being sarcastic about our ultimate demise.

It gives ammunition to our enemies.

Mate we're pretty much at Rock Bottom right now. The good thing about this is that the only way is up.

 

[Papa Emeritus]

So from what I can gather there are two sides to this.

1: The assumption that we have no cap space based on statements from the club saying we cannot seriously enter the market until 2021

2: The assumption that we MUST have cap space based on the fact that we released so many big name players.


What I wish would happen is the club come out and just be honest with everyone about our cap situation, that would end this. But seeings as that probably won't happen, I think people need to realise that at the end of the day, they do not know WTF is going on. So you can't assume point 2 is 100% factual.

• For all we know we are paying lots of the salaries of the people we let go (Mbye, Woods, Jmoz, Bmoz)
• The players we still have must be on HUGE money (Jackson, Tolman, Hoppa, Foran)

The point Hughes was trying to make to Buzz was you cannot assume they have money, because even if it sounds logical that releasing players = money, we don't know the specifics and as crazy as it sounds, we may have only shed those players to scrape in under the cap due to some absolutely ridiculous mismanagement on the previous administrations part.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I want to know the answer to Tooveys question. WHERE HAS THE MONEY GONE? Because it sure hasn't gone on players.

The NRL Salary Cap of $9.6m only relates to players, so it hasn't gone anywhere else other than to players.
The separate expenditure cap of $5.7m on the football club/coaching staff is exactly that "separate".

I have heard it from a number of sources, both internal and external, that if we added up the player contracts for 2019 we would have been at around $13m, so we had to shed $3.4m worth of contracts just to get compliant for this year. That means moving on $3.4m worth of players without replacing a single one, all out, no in.

Go Dogs

 

[ifdogsrunfree]

The NRL Salary Cap of $9.6m only relates to players, so it hasn't gone anywhere else other than to players.
The separate expenditure cap of $5.7m on the football club/coaching staff is exactly that "separate".

I have heard it from a number of sources, both internal and external, that if we added up the player contracts for 2019 we would have been at around $13m, so we had to shed $3.4m worth of contracts just to get compliant for this year. That means moving on $3.4m worth of players without replacing a single one, all out, no in.

Go Dogs

Contracts are registered with the NRL yeah? How can clubs be allowed to get in these situations if the NRL can see it coming. Surely the nrl must have some sort of duty of care to the clubs in its organization. Fark it seems the clubs* need to be protected from themselves.

* excludes Easts, souths, broncos. They're fine

 

[Scorpio]

Players from other clubs speak to each other and to players at our club...
If our players are unhappy with Pay or do not like his method of coaching or the lack of it, then they will tell other players and those players will not sign to play for us.

 

[vegny]

The club has said theres not much room under the cap for a while. No reason for them to lie as they have to spend 95% of the cap and can only spend it on players salary.

People can question how they spend it but not whether it has been spent or not. I think this is what the argument from some fans is about. Whether the club has used the money to ease future cap pressure instead of using it to improve the short term situation by getting more players.

Im happy with the direction the club is taking. I believe that theyve prepared us to be competitive in the future. Obviously they have not done a good job in distracting people for the 3 or 4 years period judging from the fans reaction lately.

 

[silva]

Remember a team must nominate 30 players within available cap plus sanctioned TPA's. Before we let Woods and Mbye go last year we only had $245k odd to spend on 6 players so YES letting these guys go allowed us to sign Okunbor, Harper Sue etc etc to registerable contracts PLUS free up around $1m to spend on possibly an Oates or Pangi Jnr but both of these guys wanted to stay with Bennett. They both now have egg on their face as Bennett left. We still have close to $1m but theres nobody we want available. BTW we wanted both Morris boys to go...they are hard to deal with.

Ive said it before. All NRL contracts once registered with NRL should be published for transparency reasons...just like all USA professional sports contracts in NFL MLB NBA and NHL. Fuck the privacy bullshit. Every stakeholder deserves to know the salaries each player is on...it creates a far more level playing field because ATM player managers can bullshit their player clients and clubs by sprouting false salaries to talk some players up and others down for competitive advantage reasons. Publish the fucken salaries NRL. Then we can see which clubs backend deals and which clubs dont and openly compare players club to club. Publishing salaries is the biggest step in creating a truly level playing field.

Do you have access to the dogs books? The club said it was 500K to sign the 5players last year from memory. Doesn't add up to me

 

[TABOO]

And tooves was spot on. Why release woods and mbye ffs. And wheres the fkn money freed up...did psy spend it on sue and meaney fuck me

Not that Meaney and Sue have set the world on fire but they are better value than Mbye and Woods.
They were two of the most overpaid flops in the history of our club.
$800K+ for woods to walk backwards in to the defensive line, get manhandled and take a year to play the ball.
Then you have Moses 'Mr Invisible' Mbye (No offense Mr I.) who disappeared during the games and did nothing.

Why can't we move on foran, pay half and pay luai 500k a year, move Jackson on pay half and sign a decent forward on the rise

Dude, you can't just make someone disappear, as much as we all would love that, it cant happen.

I have a feeling players like Tolman, Jacko, Hoppa and Foran are on close to $1 mill a year

I feel sick reading that.

 

[vegny]

Do you have access to the dogs books? The club said it was 500K to sign the 5players last year from memory. Doesn't add up to me

You are right mate. Hill said they had money to spend on 5 players at minimum wage so about 500k. That was around may last year

 

[liljohny]

I'm with Toov's, where's the cash? I will never believe in a zillion years we are that fuked now Cap wise after letting those blokes go. I've said it before, I think players are saying no to the club and they don't want anyone to know.

And that's because Dean Pay does not have any pull as a coach

 

[Trafford10]

I remember something way back saying there was a clause in their contracts that stipulate a 25% increase of their salaries if there was a cap increase. That would blokes like Tolman and Jacko who would be on 750k would be on a mil next year. Obviously I'm throwing up figures but if this is the case we need fukn clarity.

I hear Jackson is on a lot like $850k, but he is the club captain.

Tolman is not on a back ended contact, he is on a very simple 4 x $500k ($450k cash & 50k salary sacrifice) with small annual increase which is not tied to the salary cap increase.

No idea on Hoppa however he was playing for $150k a season before he was “asked” to play Sundays. Hoppa is in the $400K to maybe $450k range now no way more than that

 

[fr333k]

It is clear what our biggest problem is atm ... and hopefully the coach is removed for next season ... problem is, who can we possibly convince to come here, that is worth having.

.

No one, unless we pay overs again...

 

[Trafford10]

No idea. Who knows with Des' shifty backending and ratchet clauses? I reckon a more realistic figure would have Tolman, Hoppa and Jackson on about 800k each next year due to backending in the last year of their deal but that's a pure guess.

To my original point, even if you paid half of that for next year, I'm sure you could find clubs to sign each of those guys at 400k for next year. That frees up $1.2 million to spend on three players for next year and that's overestimating how much freight they'd have to pay to get clubs interested.

Either way, the club have more cap space and options to generate space than they're letting on.

Jackson yes. Tolman & Hopoate no way would be on that amount. Hopoate was playing for $150k before he was asked to play Sundays, maximum he would be on would be $450K MAXIMUM.

 

[Raysie]

Toovey should know more than anyone what it's like to have no money in the piggy bank thanks to Hasler. I'm surprised he's questioning why we cant afford stars.

 

[coach]

Toovey should know more than anyone what it's like to have no money in the piggy bank thanks to Hasler. I'm surprised he's questioning why we cant afford stars.

Yeah just dumb, he knows why, trying to get a bite out of Hughes

 

[Mr Invisible]

Correct me if I'm wrong BUT:
Brett and Josh Morris and Eastwood - off contract anyway end of last year (and hence not in this years cap).
Woods, Kasiano, Mbye, Reynolds - we would not be paying a cent towards anymore as they had short contracts anyway.
Klemmer - was a mutual termination and we did not contribute a cent to him leaving.

So the illusion that we had to discard players to get way under the cap is just that, an illusion. There is no factual basis to it. It was more we couldn't SIGN any big name players.

So again... where has all the money gone on our current player lineup?

Toovey should know more than anyone what it's like to have no money in the piggy bank thanks to Hasler. I'm surprised he's questioning why we cant afford stars.

Toovey is a financial expert (accountant). If anyone knows numbers, it'll be him.

From a coach and a financial perspective, he would know the board are bullshitting about the cap situation.

It's a shame they didn't let him talk more about it (and told Buzz and Hughes to shut the fuck up).

Ive said it before. All NRL contracts once registered with NRL should be published for transparency reasons...just like all USA professional sports contracts in NFL MLB NBA and NHL. Fuck the privacy bullshit. Every stakeholder deserves to know the salaries each player is on...it creates a far more level playing field because ATM player managers can bullshit their player clients and clubs by sprouting false salaries to talk some players up and others down for competitive advantage reasons. Publish the fucken salaries NRL. Then we can see which clubs backend deals and which clubs dont and openly compare players club to club. Publishing salaries is the biggest step in creating a truly level playing field.

Won't make a bees dick of difference because the big clubs are smart in how they get around the cap. Those heavily involved with the club have the players (or their partners/family) employed in high paying salary jobs, which contribute and bump up the players salary.

Cleaners, PAs, and Guest Service Co-Ordinators at clubs on $100k a year packages, but don't work an actual day in their lives.

What do the current board possibly have to gain from lying about the salary cap and fielding a shit team ?? i dont get the logic in here sometimes..

The "it's not me it's you" defence.

"We haven't been able to do everything we wanted because our cap is up the shit thanks to Des and Dib". It palms off responsibility to the previous board, rather than accepting that the decision to let players go was the current boards call. In doing so the excuse was that they needed to clear cap space.

Yet now it's claimed we still don't have cap space.

It's akin to selling everything you own then claiming you made no money off it.

Something doesn't sit right and Toovey is calling the board out on it.