Who should be our coach in 2020?

[B-Train]

I think the more pressing question is who should be the coach for the rest of 2019?

If we lose say three more games to go to 2-10, I think it would be negligent of the club to say the last half a season is a write off so we'll ride it out with Pay. That's 12 valuable games that an interim or new head coach could use to implement much needed change and give some other players who deserve an opportunity some experience.

 

[Blue&whiteAxe]

I'm not advocating sacking Dean Pay. I just want to see how others are feeling.

Start advocating

 

[AlzzBulldog]

I think the more pressing question is who should be the coach for the rest of 2019?

If we lose say three more games to go to 2-10, I think it would be negligent of the club to say the last half a season is a write off so we'll ride it out with Pay. That's 12 valuable games that an interim or new head coach could use to implement much needed change and give some other players who deserve an opportunity some experience.

Yes he needs to go no question we should be playing better than we are period, not a top 8 side but playing better than dead last

 

[TwinTurbo]

I like the player rotation by the coaching staff, it's given us a chance to see how the players off contract at the end of this season are performing. To date my views;

Fa'amanu Brown = hasn't shown enough, has the rest of the year to prove he is worthwhile keeping
Danny Fualalo = worth keeping in the prop rotation, 2 year contract
Morgan Harper = still developing, 2 year contract
Tui Katoa = still developing, 2 year contract
Michael Lichaa = long walk off a short plank
Rhyse Martin = without an attitude adjustment, move along
John Olive = move along
Francis Tualau = no sign of improvement in 2.5 seasons, move along

The big year for us is 2020 with 16 players off contract at the end of that season;

Jarred Anderson, Jack Cogger, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Kerrod Holland, Will Hopoate, Josh Jackson, Lachlan Lewis, Jeremy Marshall-King, Marcelo Montoya, Reimis Smith, Sauaso Sue, Renouf To'omaga, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham

That's over $5m worth of players to be retained or moved on, which gives us plenty of cap room to recruit whoever we want. There is also the opportunity, with only 1 year left on their contracts to move some of them on a year early. Which is easier if they are informed early that their contracts won't be renewed and they forfeit the last year with us to take up further years elsewhere. A golden opportunity, one not to be wasted.


Go Dogs

 

[Mr Invisible]

I like the player rotation by the coaching staff, it's given us a chance to see how the players off contract at the end of this season are performing. To date my views;

Fa'amanu Brown = hasn't shown enough, has the rest of the year to prove he is worthwhile keeping
Danny Fualalo = worth keeping in the prop rotation, 2 year contract
Morgan Harper = still developing, 2 year contract
Tui Katoa = still developing, 2 year contract
Michael Lichaa = long walk off a short plank
Rhyse Martin = without an attitude adjustment, move along
John Olive = move along
Francis Tualau = no sign of improvement in 2.5 seasons, move along

The big year for us is 2020 with 16 players off contract at the end of that season;

Jarred Anderson, Jack Cogger, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Kerrod Holland, Will Hopoate, Josh Jackson, Lachlan Lewis, Jeremy Marshall-King, Marcelo Montoya, Reimis Smith, Sauaso Sue, Renouf To'omaga, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham

That's over $5m worth of players to be retained or moved on, which gives us plenty of cap room to recruit whoever we want. There is also the opportunity, with only 1 year left on their contracts to move some of them on a year early. Which is easier if they are informed early that their contracts won't be renewed and they forfeit the last year with us to take up further years elsewhere. A golden opportunity, one not to be wasted.


Go Dogs

Jarred Anderson is already gone.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Like Parra, we have space in the cap this year so we could do the same as they have for Gutherson and upgrade a player/players contract for this year. That would give use even more space for next year, in which we are not exactly flush with room ot move. Especially if we have any back ended contracts left.

Go Dogs

 

[Smirrors]

Like Parra, we have space in the cap this year so we could do the same as they have for Gutherson and upgrade a player/players contract for this year. That would give use even more space for next year, in which we are not exactly flush with room ot move. Especially if we have any back ended contracts left.

How do you know they upgraded Gutho this year though? He just signed for 3 years but from 2020. I assume hes on a relatively modest contract this year. Does the NRL allow re-submission of contracts to front load?

Edit: reported here:
https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/05/16/the-sweetener-that-helped-seal-guthersons-eels-deal/

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I like the player rotation by the coaching staff, it's given us a chance to see how the players off contract at the end of this season are performing. To date my views;

Fa'amanu Brown = hasn't shown enough, has the rest of the year to prove he is worthwhile keeping
Danny Fualalo = worth keeping in the prop rotation, 2 year contract
Morgan Harper = still developing, 2 year contract
Tui Katoa = still developing, 2 year contract
Michael Lichaa = long walk off a short plank
Rhyse Martin = without an attitude adjustment, move along
John Olive = move along
Francis Tualau = no sign of improvement in 2.5 seasons, move along

The big year for us is 2020 with 16 players off contract at the end of that season;

Jarred Anderson, Jack Cogger, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Kerrod Holland, Will Hopoate, Josh Jackson, Lachlan Lewis, Jeremy Marshall-King, Marcelo Montoya, Reimis Smith, Sauaso Sue, Renouf To'omaga, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham

That's over $5m worth of players to be retained or moved on, which gives us plenty of cap room to recruit whoever we want. There is also the opportunity, with only 1 year left on their contracts to move some of them on a year early. Which is easier if they are informed early that their contracts won't be renewed and they forfeit the last year with us to take up further years elsewhere. A golden opportunity, one not to be wasted.


Go Dogs

The player rotation is a massive negative, I don't know how you can try and flip that as some sort of positive. Shows Pay has a complete lack of confidence and belief in what he is doing and how far out of his depth he really is if it's simply to try and spark a response.

Players are never settled, players aren't confident, combinations aren't being built, etc. This from the drop kick that only bothered with a single trial during pre season, absolutely laughable.

Go Dogs

 

[B-Train]

The player rotation is a massive negative, I don't know how you can try and flip that as some sort of positive. Shows Pay has a complete lack of confidence and belief in what he is doing and how far out of his depth he really is if it's simply to try and spark a response.

Players are never settled, players aren't confident, combinations aren't being built, etc. This from the drop kick that only bothered with a single trial during pre season, absolutely laughable.

Go Dogs

The thing that makes the least sense is that Pay promoted Martin and he was great last year and this year he's been in the dog house. Pay had RFM playing well last year and this year he refuses to play him when healthy. Pay was the one who put Holland and Smith together to form a deadly combination and he didn't have them together once all season.

No decisions or tactics of Pays make sense or have logic behind them..Even combinations and selections that have worked for him in the past he's decided to not go with..

I don't know what more Pay could do to get prove he deserves to be fired and it's infuriating that the club are just sitting back quietly watching us rot further.

 

[TwinTurbo]

The player rotation is a massive negative, I don't know how you can try and flip that as some sort of positive. Shows Pay has a complete lack of confidence and belief in what he is doing and how far out of his depth he really is if it's simply to try and spark a response.
Players are never settled, players aren't confident, combinations aren't being built, etc. This from the drop kick that only bothered with a single trial during pre season, absolutely laughable.
Go Dogs

It's only a negative when you have a team of established NRL players, which we simply don't have. We have a roster almost completely filled with young inexperienced players and determining who to promote, who to relegate, who to keep and who to move requires testing them as individuals and as part of a team. That's tested and proven at NRL level, the next level down is a step too far. Plus, a big plus, if we were wining almost every game then picking the team is easy, only injured or suspended players need replacing. But we aren't, so we need to promote and relegate accordingly.

Of course I don't agree with every promotion and/or relegation, but the fact is they are necessary, both where we are with players and were we are in the win/lose equation. I don't like the fact that we have to, but I like the fact that we are brave enough to do it. Short term pain for long term gain.


Go Dogs

 

[CrittaMagic69]

It's only a negative when you have a team of established NRL players, which we simply don't have. We have a roster almost completely filled with young inexperienced players and determining who to promote, who to relegate, who to keep and who to move requires testing them as individuals and as part of a team. That's tested and proven at NRL level, the next level down is a step too far. Plus, a big plus, if we were wining almost every game then picking the team is easy, only injured or suspended players need replacing. But we aren't, so we need to promote and relegate accordingly.

Of course I don't agree with every promotion and/or relegation, but the fact is they are necessary, both where we are with players and were we are in the win/lose equation. I don't like the fact that we have to, but I like the fact that we are brave enough to do it. Short term pain for long term gain.


Go Dogs

Don't agree at all, the way we are going about doing this is just wrong and I don't see any sort of benefits at all from it...if Pay had gone about it in the right way then fair enough. But for me everything is just way too erratic and that isn't good for us moving forward.

Go Dogs

 

[CrittaMagic69]

The thing that makes the least sense is that Pay promoted Martin and he was great last year and this year he's been in the dog house. Pay had RFM playing well last year and this year he refuses to play him when healthy. Pay was the one who put Holland and Smith together to form a deadly combination and he didn't have them together once all season.

No decisions or tactics of Pays make sense or have logic behind them..Even combinations and selections that have worked for him in the past he's decided to not go with..

I don't know what more Pay could do to get prove he deserves to be fired and it's infuriating that the club are just sitting back quietly watching us rot further.

Pay defenitely had an idea and that's why he played players in certain positions and made certain decisions, but what was dead obvious to me early on is that Pay completely lost faith in his idea and as a result started making the mass changes without anywhere near enough thought...honestly he's like a few posters on here that want players dropped every week and would constantly change the lineup.. probably why they support him lol.

 

[B-Train]

It's only a negative when you have a team of established NRL players, which we simply don't have. We have a roster almost completely filled with young inexperienced players and determining who to promote, who to relegate, who to keep and who to move requires testing them as individuals and as part of a team. That's tested and proven at NRL level, the next level down is a step too far. Plus, a big plus, if we were wining almost every game then picking the team is easy, only injured or suspended players need replacing. But we aren't, so we need to promote and relegate accordingly.

Of course I don't agree with every promotion and/or relegation, but the fact is they are necessary, both where we are with players and were we are in the win/lose equation. I don't like the fact that we have to, but I like the fact that we are brave enough to do it. Short term pain for long term gain.


Go Dogs

It's don't think it's a matter of lack of experience. Despite being the youngest squad, we still have veterans such as Jackson, Tolman, Foran, Hopoate, Napa and even guys like Lichaa, Elliott, CHN who are all experienced despite being fairly young.

It's the fact that the coach has poor tactics and selections, has the team playing with no confidence or intent in attack or defence and the squad needs more talent.

But Pay shouldn't be the one making decisions on recruitment and retention.

 

[Supreme Dog]

Pay will be the coach in 2020. You can bet your houses and wives on it.

Pay will not be here in 2021.

The question should be, who will be the coach in 2021, while working behind the scenes in 2020 with Chris Anderson to recruit the players they want for 2021 season?!

 

[B-Train]

Pay will be the coach in 2020. You can bet your houses and wives on it.

Pay will not be here in 2021.

The question should be, who will be the coach in 2021, while working behind the scenes in 2020 with Chris Anderson to recruit the players they want for 2021 season?!

Keeping Pay any longer just sends the message that they've accepted losing and given up any expectation of doing better despite limited resources.

Why waste another year and a half? How much worse can our record and performances get before it's no longer acceptable? In that year and a half another coach could have potentially turned the club around.

 

[Supreme Dog]

Christian Crichton, CHN, Napa, Okunbor, Meaney, Ogden are the only players contracted till 2021

Thats 6 players out of 30!

The board are letting Pay ride it out with the current squad up until the end of the 2020 season.

Whatever recruiting happens from now till than (for 2021 season and beyond), Pay will have fuck all to say about it.

 

[TwinTurbo]

The thing that makes the least sense is that Pay promoted Martin and he was great last year and this year he's been in the dog house. Pay had RFM playing well last year and this year he refuses to play him when healthy.

What if it's the players that are demoting him? There is a code of conduct that all players have to abide by which is enforced by the leadership group. Failure of a player to live up to that results in action by their piers.

Pay was the one who put Holland and Smith together to form a deadly combination and he didn't have them together once all season.

What if there is a very good reason for the teaming of Hopoate with Smith? To me it seems that Hopoate is player better at centre than he ever has. In the past TK was full of posts about never having Hopoate at centre ever again, he was a turnstile in defence. But not this year, isn't that a credit to not only himself, but the players inside of him and the player outside of him. It's very naive to think in the simplistic terms of a 2 player combination, when it's the whole side of the field that forms the combination. That's what the decision needs to be based on.

No decisions or tactics of Pays make sense or have logic behind them.

No decisions, not one, you disagree with them all. You don't think that Meaney should have been promoted? Or Cogger been given a chance? Or playing Jackson at lock? Or Ogden given more minutes? Or Lichaa dropped etc etc? Of course you will claim that those decisions should have been made earlier, but that doesn't means that they weren't the right decisions.

Even combinations and selections that have worked for him in the past he's decided to not go with.

So you would still be playing Hopoate at fullback, that worked. We won 4 out of 6 games at the end of last season with Lichaa at hooker, so we should have kept him there? Should have retained the Frawley and Lewis combination? History is exactly that history.

I don't know what more Pay could do to get prove he deserves to be fired and it's infuriating that the club are just sitting back quietly watching us rot further.

And exactly who would you replace him with? Someone who guarantees a better result, not just for this year, but the year after?


Go Dogs

 

[Supreme Dog]

Keeping Pay any longer just sends the message that they've accepted losing and given up any expectation of doing better despite limited resources.

Why waste another year and a half? How much worse can our record and performances get before it's no longer acceptable? In that year and a half another coach could have potentially turned the club around.

You have to understand that no "established" NRL coach wants to come here "now", with a poor roster and no funds to recruite where or what is needed in their eyes.

As mentioned, next season we have only 6 players out of 30 contracted for the 2021 season, with none of those players "back-ended"

Pretty much a full salary cap to spend on a new team

 

[TwinTurbo]

Keeping Pay any longer just sends the message that they've accepted losing and given up any expectation of doing better despite limited resources.
Why waste another year and a half? How much worse can our record and performances get before it's no longer acceptable? In that year and a half another coach could have potentially turned the club around.

Who?

Go Dogs

 

[B-Train]

Who?

Go Dogs

Anyone could do the same, if not better. It can't get worse. The answer isn't Pay so try someone else.

Holbrook would take the job if offered. The Walker Brothers should be considered. Or someone like Demetriou.

I'd even take Henry or Griffin short term if they wanted experience.