Everything Trump - Discussion Thread

[CaptainJackson]

One could say their buying as much bullshit as lefties buy without looking all types of shit and not just bullshit that the media, hollywood, music industry, governments etc throw at them. Who has the right side for throwing the right wing agenda? Fox News and trump lol. That's literally it

So essentially, from what you've said my understanding is that the reason pc brigadiers sound their sirens it's when a right wing has said something that is factually true but at the same time offended that females parents cats dog?

 

[CaptainJackson]

I think you're misunderstanding what "Free speech" means. Free speech means the right wing racist groups have the right to say what they want. That's true. But it doesn't protect them from criticism. It only protects them from being prosecuted for their speech or forced by law to stop talking. Anyone is free to criticise or shame these groups and free to say that they should STFU. That's free speech.

an example of this, here in Australia, is Channel 7 providing a platform for Pauline Hanson and making her popular again. This has resulted in a viewer backlash, with Channel 7 showing losses in ratings.

 

[CaptainJackson]

but its a necessary evil to have free speech otherwise people would be silenced by bullies. Its also necessary for mediation and problem solving . Its unhealthy to silence these groups because it just brews and they start hating more .

Whether you believe it or not, the whole "fake news" stigma that surrounded the election WAS REAL. Trump got a lot of movement out of fake news, it benefitted him.

Here in Australia, we have defamation laws, which is basically lie about a person and you open yourself up to being sued.

I link these two, as the consequences of "fake news" (which were basically defamation lawsuits if it happened in Australia) is that we now have a potential 4 years of a narcissist, authoritarian idiot.

As an example, saying the white race is superior to any other race, why should these kind of views be tolerated? Why should they have microphone time? Why should they be given a bigger platform? You're not going to convince people with those views otherwise, it just doesn't happen, they've got cognitive dissonance.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Youre being sarcastic right ?

Nope. That's what free speech is. You said that Zee was trying to remove their freedom of speech. He's not though, he's just criticising it. That's what he meant by "Giving racist groups a voice". They've always been free to say what they want, Trump is just encouraging them to talk more and Zee if just criticising them for being idiots. That's everyone practising their freedom of speech.

 

[Wolfmother]

As far as allowing white supremacists to be vocal in their racism, a couple of things:-

• Have you ever read their articles or seen debates with them? The majority of them refuse to budge an inch, even in the face of concrete evidence.
• Then you have no objections to an ISIS group setting up and spreading their propaganda in the US?

As far as I'm aware the white supremists are defensive whereas Isis are offensive.. Big difference.

ISIS already spread propaganda in their own country's and abroad and threaten to take over .

The white supremists don't want other races in their country.

Big difference

 

[CaptainJackson]

Even though you're very smart your judgement is clouded by your prejudices and a fixation on Trump being an open hater of muslims.

Just on this point wolfie, I don't think his own personal opinions target muslims more than others.

I think in general he's a racist scumbag but couldn't really care less about muslims alone. He's just using that to maintain support from his voter base.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

but its a necessary evil to have free speech otherwise people would be silenced by bullies. Its also necessary for mediation and problem solving . Its unhealthy to silence these groups because it just brews and they start hating more .

That's true. Free speech is a necessary evil, but no one is advocating its removal. No one is demanding that the the law stop the right wing groups from holding their marches and speeches, everyone is just carrying out their right to call them idiots.

 

[CaptainJackson]

As far as I'm aware the white supremists are defensive whereas Isis are offensive.. Big difference.

ISIS already spread propaganda in their own country's and abroad and threaten to take over .

The white supremists don't want other races in their country.

Big difference

So if white supremacists get their way, other ethnicities are just going to be peacefully shipped off? From the long history of nationalistic facist groups, I somehow think it's going to be anything but peaceful.

 

[CaptainJackson]

That's true. Free speech is a necessary evil, but no one is advocating its removal. No one is demanding that the the law stop the right wing groups from holding their marches and speeches, everyone is just carrying out their right to call them idiots.

Yep, I'm pointing out that they are a supporter base for Trump and that with Trump's election (and the rhetoric trump used in his campaign) these racists have become more vocal and more daring in their actions.

 

[Wolfmother]

Nope. That's what free speech is. You said that Zee was trying to remove their freedom of speech. He's not though, he's just criticising it. That's what he meant by "Giving racist groups a voice". They've always been free to say what they want, Trump is just encouraging them to talk more and Zee if just criticising them for being idiots. That's everyone practising their freedom of speech.

I was actually referring the pc realist 90 but yeah , he was saying that trump gave the racist groups a voice meaning that their voice was at bay or silenced before this .. Meaning they were denied freedom of speech because PC lobbyists bullied them into it.

 

[Wolfmother]

So if white supremacists get their way, other ethnicities are just going to be peacefully shipped off? From the long history of nationalistic facist groups, I somehow think it's going to be anything but peaceful.

No if they're able to speak then maybe we can work out what the problem is. I can tell you what it is but you'd shame me .. Ok its about assimilating and not taking advantage of their tax payers money

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Just a FYI it's not racist to ban a religion I think that discrimination. It's racist when you ban an actual race of people which is why they call the wall a racist.

I've never really liked the whole thing of calling "Muslim" a race. It's not. But it is unconstitutional to ban a religion so they're still protected there.

 

[CaptainJackson]

No if they're able to speak then maybe we can work out what the problem is. I can tell you what it is but you'd shame me .. Ok its about assimilating and not taking advantage of their tax payers money

Ummmm no. If we're talking about the US white supremacists, then no it isn't. They actually hate anyone who isn't white. You only have to read the things they say about Milo Hopelessopolous , who is another Trump supporter, to see what their belief systems are

 

[Hacky McAxe]

So essentially, from what you've said my understanding is that the reason pc brigadiers sound their sirens it's when a right wing has said something that is factually true but at the same time offended that females parents cats dog?

Yep. To a certain extent. In America the left wing types often want to change the constitution while the right wing types want to protect it. I'm generally in favour of changing the constitution 'cause it's stupid to keep something dangerous just 'cause some old writing says you shouldn't change it, but the American constitution is set in stone so the left can whine all they want but they still have to stick to America's legal system.

 

[Mr Invisible]

BACK ON TOPIC AGAIN!!!!

What do people think will happen when the inevitable occurs (people sick of Trump)? Will he simply walk away non chalant with a "I don't give a fuck because I'm still a multi billionaire", or will he just screw America to the point where his personal business interests start making him more money.

From all sources it appears he seems hell bent on effectively running the country (USA) into the ground with stupid rules and ideals that simply won't work, because America relies on too many other countries.

Like creating jobs for Americans and buying less from China. That's fine in theory but America can't recreate the same industrial scale that China can, at the same (or remotely the same) pay scales. If they want to even get close that means employing at bottom dollar, which mean immigrants and most likely Mexicans. But wait, Mexicans are being exported aren't they?

I'm seeing a lot of poorly thought out, poorly planned ideas tossed around under the guise of "Make America Great Again". The harsh reality though, is so far many of these "pie in the sky" ideas are being knocked back because they simply aren't feasible in any way. In reality by trying to "Make America Great Again", he could actually be making it even worse by burning overseas ties that he can't replicate in the U S of A.

Which brings up and interesting thought... how many of his "Pro America" ideas will he attempt to push through (nad get rejected), before people start to wonder how inefficient he actually is.

Add to this, he rubs people up the wrong way, and I can see him causing international tension with country leaders that could put the squeeze on America by way of sanctions (e.g you offend China, China will cut America off). That sort of damage won't be an easy fix.

At the moment, all I see is a rich arrogant bloke who came out of the blocks firing, and is now having many electoral promises of his sunk in reality. The excuses are pouring out of his camp at the moment, and that spells trouble already.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I don't want to use this at this moment in time, because I would like to wait and see what exactly happens, but from what I've read the new executive order to come out soon (to replace the "muslim ban") is worded something along the lines of



And this will be interesting to see how this is implemented. From face value, it does appear to be a re-wording of a ban on muslims, but closer inspection throws up problems of their being minority Islamic sects in those countries who would/should be prioritized. But as I said, this is a wait and see executive order, i.e.:-

• Wait if that is actually the executive order
• If it is how is it processed, whether those minority muslims are neglected

As far as allowing white supremacists to be vocal in their racism, a couple of things:-

• Have you ever read their articles or seen debates with them? The majority of them refuse to budge an inch, even in the face of concrete evidence.
• Then you have no objections to an ISIS group setting up and spreading their propaganda in the US?

If that is the actual executive order then Trump has learned nothing. It'll still be deemed unconstitutional because the constitution says "Equal protections" and "Freedom of religion"

 

[Realist90]

View attachment 2217

Why you upset for bra

 

[Flanagun]

As far as I'm aware the white supremists are defensive whereas Isis are offensive.. Big difference.

ISIS already spread propaganda in their own country's and abroad and threaten to take over .

The white supremists don't want other races in their country.

Big difference

It's not your country. It's not white people's country. White people claiming ownership of somewhere they don't actually own and trying to intimidate people to get the fuck out of their country is fundamentally offensive. There's nothing defensive about it. A defensive action doesn't exist unless there is a genuine threat to someone's welfare.

White supremacists are by their very nature self entitled, delusional and offensive.not just in the sense they cause offence, in the sense they instigate.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I was actually referring the pc realist 90 but yeah , he was saying that trump gave the racist groups a voice meaning that their voice was at bay or silenced before this .. Meaning they were denied freedom of speech because PC lobbyists bullied them into it.

I read it a different way.

Also, I generally see PCRealist, Realist and Zee as the same person. 'cause it's more fun that way.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I've never really liked the whole thing of calling "Muslim" a race. It's not. But it is unconstitutional to ban a religion so they're still protected there.

It takes on racist undertones. While those who are racist to muslims and then use comments like "it's not racist to an ideology because there asian muslims too", yet they use insults like "goat farker", "sand nig**r", etc, it's quite clearly they have a stereotypical model in their heads.

 

[Realist90]

That's true. Free speech is a necessary evil, but no one is advocating its removal. No one is demanding that the the law stop the right wing groups from holding their marches and speeches, everyone is just carrying out their right to call them idiots.

What????? Are you serious bro?
Have you not seen how many right wing speeches have been forced to not go ahead coz of the lefties marching and violently protesting to not let them speak.