Why we lost. Is the coach or are the players at fault?

Is the coach or are the players at fault?

  • Coach

  • Players

  • Both


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_G-Dog_

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We can all debate whether Pay is a good coach or not, but somthing not in question os Pay has clearly failed in recruitment & selections.. He recruited & put his faith in players that dont have it and are not up to NRL standard.. And he still persists with them after 2 years.. Lewis Cogger JMK Meaney in spine positions & spent big cash on Napa to top it off.. and the lost goes on..
 

shaun5150

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Once again everyone is saying how we need to improve the squad. Get better players.
A lot of these players were part of the last 2 seasons where we won quite a few games in a row against higher teams. Of course being 2nd last all the time means beating
everyone else. Last year 5 from 6 or whatever it was.
So where is that mental toughness? where is the professionalism? Are players playing well at the end of a season to get contracts only?
How a teams conducts business comes from to top. Simple. Bennett, Robinson, Bellamy, Stuart. How they run the place is why they are so good.
Players don't respect Pay. He just isn't smart enough.
Hate Des all you like. But imagine going from a coach that has missed 2 finals in 10 years to a bloke who just says we need to get better without having a means of doing that.

Pay is a shit coach. Players lack confidence. He will not and can not get this team to turn the corner. He just is not able to.
So he goes.
It won't matter who coaches the rest of the year. it maybe the same result.
But for 2021 get Griffin or Flano or anyone else who has half a fucking brain. Then remove this money hungry shit board of useless tards.
 

KiwiDog7

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After watching the game....

Beat up in the pack
-Only RFM , Elliott and Renouf showed ticker
- Whilst Averillo defensively was caught out, he is playing next to Lewis and I saw enough of him to believe he will be a star. He made some good breaks and considering he’s playing the bench mark and not his preferred position...watch him under a better coach next year he will carve up
- Napa is a pussy
- JMK needs a stint give Katoa run
- Wakeham in for Lewis
- Hoppa and Foz only attacking sparks (and Averillo)
- too many players with feet for hands like DWz and Crichton

Absolutely no attack down Lewis edge whatsoever

We were lucky Roosters took the foot off the gas because that could’ve been 70 point thrashing
 

CaptainJackson

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Third try
1. six again penalty on the 2nd tackle. Elliott.
2. error - drop ball. Meaney.
3. Averillo caught out defensively - covering Tedesco who Lewis is already covering, massive hole. RFM's probably at fault too, defending behind the line.
Disagree with that. Rfm had tedesco covered i that space, lewis needed to slide across. Lewis making that tackle created the indecision in the rest of the defensive line
 

hulk hogan

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I didn't see the game (thankfully) but by all reports sounds like Lewis had a blinder lol
If Wakeham isn't picked next week Pay needs to fall on his sword.

We all agree Pay does not have the strongest roster in the competition
but he makes it so much harder for himself with the baffling selections among many other flaws

I know he is so fixated on defence and offers fk all with attacking game plans but someone needs to tell him that the best defence is attack.

I.e. Start Renouf Toomaga
Start Wakeham drop Lewis
How holland is on the bench in front of wakeham
 

speedy2460

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After watching the game....

Beat up in the pack
-Only RFM , Elliott and Renouf showed ticker
- Whilst Averillo defensively was caught out, he is playing next to Lewis and I saw enough of him to believe he will be a star. He made some good breaks and considering he’s playing the bench mark and not his preferred position...watch him under a better coach next year he will carve up
- Napa is a pussy
- JMK needs a stint give Katoa run
- Wakeham in for Lewis
- Hoppa and Foz only attacking sparks (and Averillo)
- too many players with feet for hands like DWz and Crichton

Absolutely no attack down Lewis edge whatsoever

We were lucky Roosters took the foot off the gas because that could’ve been 70 point thrashing
Agree with most of what you say. The main change I feel is necessary is Averillo to 7 and Katoa to 9.
We dont have the cattle to make wholesale changes.
 

GreenTurd

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Agree with most of what you say. The main change I feel is necessary is Averillo to 7 and Katoa to 9.
These changes alone could change our whole game. Pity it won’t happen, unless forced.
 

Scoooby

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Both. Hence cleanup needed..!!
 

dogwhisperer

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What was Pay doing during the COVID break? We have a new rule giving a repeat set. Trent Robinson says “lets play up the guts and exploit this rule and create momentum.” Dean Pay says “What new rule? Ah ok, a repeat set, ah bugger that, I’m not going to adjust for that, let’s keep throwing the ball sideways, I just love Lewis’ cut out balls into the grandstand, like what they say back home, she’ll be right”
 

silva

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We lost because we showed them too much respect. We needed to launch an assault on their pack and win the ruck. There's a lack of leadership in this forward pack.
 

Heckler

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Too be perfectly honest, I'm hating this repeat set rule. It's taken rugby league to another level we haven't seen before. Too quick, too easy to manipulate. I don't even know what most of the restarts were for in any game. It's like a game of touch footy.

Ugly.
 

chemdog

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2nd try was a double knock on
3rd try was from a forward pass in the lead up from dummy half
 

Novdoggie

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None of the above.

We don't have the talent to match most teams. We currently have players that would struggle to make starting sides of the top four sides. No fault of anyone's because there are top tier players and there are bottom tier players and we have the latter. Most of our players can't and won't produce much more than what they are dishing out because that is all the so called talent they can provide. I am not blaming them either because not every athlete can perform with the best.

My main concern is there is not enough talent for us to pick from over the next few years until they come off contract and with a possibility of another Brisbane team entering the comp in a couple years makes it even more difficult.

Personally I think we need to get a top quality coach that has a proven track record at the top level that players want to play for first and foremost and maybe just maybe we don't have to pay overs for top quality players. This needs to happen NOW! I would go for Michael Hagan. He has proven his worth in Origin and was the main tactician behind QLD's success. He understands the Bulldogs culture and players have shown he is well respected.

We can't move forward until we settle our coach for the next 3-5 years. Then we can start recruiting quality because Hagan will attract them.

We need an assistant coach to go along with Hagan and my choice would be someone like Jason Hetherington or Mick Ennis. James Graham if he retires offer him a role to assist the forwards. These three have many years of experience. An ex forward that understands the forwards role while Hagan works on the attack.

Seriously, if we think that our war chest of money is going to be enough to attract players we are in for a rude shock. For goodness sake Tedesco didn't want to play for us for top dollar. And that is the sad truth of it all.
 

liljohny

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What was Pay doing during the COVID break? We have a new rule giving a repeat set. Trent Robinson says “lets play up the guts and exploit this rule and create momentum.” Dean Pay says “What new rule? Ah ok, a repeat set, ah bugger that, I’m not going to adjust for that, let’s keep throwing the ball sideways, I just love Lewis’ cut out balls into the grandstand, like what they say back home, she’ll be right”
I asked myself a similar question.

What did the roosters do in the covid break?

Think about it. Looked ordinary in first 2 games. Had the covid break where 'supposedly' no group training permitted. Then they come back looking like a well oiled September team that has put 3 teams to the sword that look like February trial teams.

Roosters are and have always been cheats and their performances from pre covid to post covid are just far too discrepant for them to not have been group training in some way shape or form.
 

Dakdah

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Last night was the best example of how a team should play and in our case, shouldn’t. Roosters were far better at every aspect of the game. They hit hard in defence, in attack it was like they were on fast forward compared to ours. They had support players everywhere, the play the ball speed was far superior, their attack was creative. We were poor defensively and our attack was one out, slow motion almost. Roosters looked like scoring almost every time they had the ball. It looked like a roosters training run an we were an under 18 side.
Point is that players, coach and to an extent management, we’re all to blame. Players looked unfit, discipline and fundamental skills were poor and creativity non-existent (although Foran offered a lot more which really shows how bad we are without him in the side). Pay and the rest of the coaching staff tolerate poor form. How we are at the salary cap or even close is unbelievable. We still haven’t got a major jersey sponsor and the nrl’s audience was/is getting more global until more sports start back up, would seem an easier selling point but still we play in a best and less jersey. Keen to see Thompson go around but we need a lot more than him
 

SweetFA

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None of the above.

We don't have the talent to match most teams. We currently have players that would struggle to make starting sides of the top four sides. No fault of anyone's because there are top tier players and there are bottom tier players and we have the latter. Most of our players can't and won't produce much more than what they are dishing out because that is all the so called talent they can provide. I am not blaming them either because not every athlete can perform with the best.

My main concern is there is not enough talent for us to pick from over the next few years until they come off contract and with a possibility of another Brisbane team entering the comp in a couple years makes it even more difficult.

Personally I think we need to get a top quality coach that has a proven track record at the top level that players want to play for first and foremost and maybe just maybe we don't have to pay overs for top quality players. This needs to happen NOW! I would go for Michael Hagan. He has proven his worth in Origin and was the main tactician behind QLD's success. He understands the Bulldogs culture and players have shown he is well respected.

We can't move forward until we settle our coach for the next 3-5 years. Then we can start recruiting quality because Hagan will attract them.

We need an assistant coach to go along with Hagan and my choice would be someone like Jason Hetherington or Mick Ennis. James Graham if he retires offer him a role to assist the forwards. These three have many years of experience. An ex forward that understands the forwards role while Hagan works on the attack.

Seriously, if we think that our war chest of money is going to be enough to attract players we are in for a rude shock. For goodness sake Tedesco didn't want to play for us for top dollar. And that is the sad truth of it all.
Great suggestion but he is another that has been in the coaching hiatus for about a decade. There is also the acrimony over his brother Bob’s dismissal over the salary cap scandal
 
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DoggyStyla

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Last night was the best example of how a team should play and in our case, shouldn’t. Roosters were far better at every aspect of the game. They hit hard in defence, in attack it was like they were on fast forward compared to ours. They had support players everywhere, the play the ball speed was far superior, their attack was creative. We were poor defensively and our attack was one out, slow motion almost. Roosters looked like scoring almost every time they had the ball. It looked like a roosters training run an we were an under 18 side.
Point is that players, coach and to an extent management, we’re all to blame. Players looked unfit, discipline and fundamental skills were poor and creativity non-existent (although Foran offered a lot more which really shows how bad we are without him in the side). Pay and the rest of the coaching staff tolerate poor form. How we are at the salary cap or even close is unbelievable. We still haven’t got a major jersey sponsor and the nrl’s audience was/is getting more global until more sports start back up, would seem an easier selling point but still we play in a best and less jersey. Keen to see Thompson go around but we need a lot more than him
If the players are infit - coach is the blame
Selection issues - coach is to blame
Poor interchange management- coach is to blame
Underperforming players being selected - coach is to blame
Poor game plan - coach is to blame
Not sacking the shit house coach - management to blame

I know Bradyk and all of his profiles will argue it’s the players fault, and maybe blame covid19 for fitness, but I saw Ricky Stuart was video conferencing his players to keep them on track! What did Pay do? He sat on his ass sulking about being stood down! And I know these bitches will say he wasn’t getting paid”, but he was already not hitting his KPIs so one would think if he wanted to keep one of the best jobs in the NRL, he would have still put the hours on and kept the boys on track!
 
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