Please Explain

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Im the first to admit that Im no coach or knows what happens during a pre season or training.
I know others here have way more experience than myself, attend training sessions etc.
So I come from a person that has watched footy 40 years almost entirely from my loungeroom.

I dont do stats or know much in the way of structure, set plays, picking a team etc etc.
I always thought rugby League was a simple game.
It was quoted that the first thing Andrew Johns did in his new gig was simplify the roles of his halves. Surely he knows something.

Anywhos, what baffles me is our lack of attack that has been an issue for so long. Yes I am well aware that our halves situation has been an ongoing issue.
I saw a glimpse of something that could be built apon first game this year.
I was never under the delusion of high ladder placements by years end before round 1

I dont understand why repeat sets isnt a priority
I dont undrestand why for example we had a chunk of possession early last week down on the try line yet we run 5 tackles mostly settlers, shit kick, die with the ball, error take your pick.

Our forwards often do their job beginnings of games yet we fail to score, its a common theme. If we scored early last week, its game on with confidence. We fail to score its no confidence, frustration, errors, panic plays, panic defense, you know the dumb shit baffles us etc.

If you cant penetrate the line (and lets be honest after 15 minutes it was clear we would never break through they were just to organized) why not kick or grubber early in a set. Guarentee Cleary would (yes I know we dont have a Cleary).
Why no set plays to combat these situations? Or why not play to whats in front of you? Isnt that what halves do? Are they playing to a pre conceived game plan/structures that Baz has outlined? Footy is dynamic.

People saying we are unfit, I believe the lack of attack contributes to us working so hard. Once again, I dont know stats but if your tackling/defending dont need to be Einstein to work out your burning energy and 3/4 into the game on the back foot your going to be worn out.

People say defense wins games. We defended forever against Broncos and lost. 1 point yes but we lost.
They scored with ease last week. Maybe not so if it was game on.
Last week we had nothing in attack. If we scored early there was a chance that it wouldnt have been a blow out.

Nothing changes, nothing changes. Apart from something round 1, we still have no clue in attack after a year now with a stronger squad.

Is footy really that complicated?

 

[CQDog]

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

View attachment 45342

Thanks for sharing your constructive thoughts

 

[KiwiDog7]

Im the first to admit that Im no coach or knows what happens during a pre season or training.
I know others here have way more experience than myself, attend training sessions etc.
So I come from a person that has watched footy 40 years almost entirely from my loungeroom.

I dont do stats or know much in the way of structure, set plays, picking a team etc etc.
I always thought rugby League was a simple game.
It was quoted that the first thing Andrew Johns did in his new gig was simplify the roles of his halves. Surely he knows something.

Anywhos, what baffles me is our lack of attack that has been an issue for so long. Yes I am well aware that our halves situation has been an ongoing issue.
I saw a glimpse of something that could be built apon first game this year.
I was never under the delusion of high ladder placements by years end before round 1

I dont understand why repeat sets isnt a priority
I dont undrestand why for example we had a chunk of possession early last week down on the try line yet we run 5 tackles mostly settlers, shit kick, die with the ball, error take your pick.

Our forwards often do their job beginnings of games yet we fail to score, its a common theme. If we scored early last week, its game on with confidence. We fail to score its no confidence, frustration, errors, panic plays, panic defense, you know the dumb shit baffles us etc.

If you cant penetrate the line (and lets be honest after 15 minutes it was clear we would never break through they were just to organized) why not kick or grubber early in a set. Guarentee Cleary would (yes I know we dont have a Cleary).
Why no set plays to combat these situations? Or why not play to whats in front of you? Isnt that what halves do? Are they playing to a pre conceived game plan/structures that Baz has outlined? Footy is dynamic.

People saying we are unfit, I believe the lack of attack contributes to us working so hard. Once again, I dont know stats but if your tackling/defending dont need to be Einstein to work out your burning energy and 3/4 into the game on the back foot your going to be worn out.

People say defense wins games. We defended forever against Broncos and lost. 1 point yes but we lost.
They scored with ease last week. Maybe not so if it was game on.
Last week we had nothing in attack. If we scored early there was a chance that it wouldnt have been a blow out.

Nothing changes, nothing changes. Apart from something round 1, we still have no clue in attack after a year now with a stronger squad.

Is footy really that complicated?

Out attacking structures suck and pig headed Baz won’t adjust it to suit the capabilities of our roster

We have a hooker that has a cup of tea before he passes the ball and our big signing recruit has to play within a confined part of the field.

Our defence was good against the first 3 teams but we caught a well oiled machine Melbourne on their good day. If we had scored tries early at least 2, that game takes on a dar different complexion however we became frustrated we couldn’t score and the boys dropped their heads and before you knew it 16-0.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Out attacking structures suck and pig headed Baz won’t adjust it to suit the capabilities of our roster

We have a hooker that has a cup of tea before he passes the ball and our big signing recruit has to play within a confined part of the field.

Our defence was good against the first 3 teams but we caught a well oiled machine Melbourne on their good day. If we had scored tries early at least 2, that game takes on a dar different complexion however we became frustrated we couldn’t score and the boys dropped their heads and before you knew it 16-0.

Yes no doubt Melbourne are a classy team.
I also dont know why at the very least Baz hasnt worked on JMK's first pass from the ruck. There are times where the ball is played and he is still looking around choosing where to pass. I dont get it.

 

[GrogDog]

I don't know if Tbaz has a bunch of ideas he came up with at Penrith and then no matter what said I will use them at the Dogs. Seems like he's ignored the players he really has and not constructed plays that will use their particular strengths. Big question mark to me is why the fuk is JJ being used as the most important player on the field in the middle of our team in attack? Slow useless forward is everything that attack isn't. JJ and Naden along with team selections and now mixing and matching is leaning me towards the final conclusion. Tbaz is out of depth already! Done with taking a chance on rookie Coaches.

 

[fr333k]

Yes no doubt Melbourne are a classy team.
I also dont know why at the very least Baz hasnt worked on JMK's first pass from the ruck. There are times where the ball is played and he is still looking around choosing where to pass. I dont get it.

Agree. He should know which side he is going and exactly who the pass is going to before the ball even gets played.
We need someone to mentor him or hook him from that position - preferably the latter as we have Mahoney coming next year. Better off giving someone else a shot for the rest of the year.
Baz has already chopped and changed the 7 spot, why not try a better 9 for the year?

 

[KiwiDog7]

We are a laughing stock of the league not because of the 44-0 drubbing but because of Baz questionable decisions and Gus allowing him to do it

 

[Bazildog]

Is footy really that complicated?

It shouldnt be. But Barrett appears to be a master at making it confusing, because on the park we look like 13 Stevie Wonders busting for a piss all looking for the toilets..

 

[wendog33]

We are a laughing stock of the league not because of the 44-0 drubbing but because of Baz questionable decisions and Gus allowing him to do it

Gus can't keep saying "it's the long game". Not with these new players also looking like last years mugs in inept penalties, skills, no backing up, bad passing, dropped ball, no set plays etc

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Agree. He should know which side he is going and exactly who the pass is going to before the ball even gets played.
We need someone to mentor him or hook him from that position - preferably the latter as we have Mahoney coming next year. Better off giving someone else a shot for the rest of the year.
Baz has already chopped and changed the 7 spot, why not try a better 9 for the year?

Thing is hes been in the position for couple years now. We have coaching staff. I doubt Baz will replace him due to the fact he can play 80 mins, he's not bad defensively, he is now a senior team member and he knows what hes going to get from him (as f**ked up as that sounds). Its a shame he has no vision.
Im more for picking and sticking with a team whomever he decides to go with, I was hoping this wasnt going to be another year of trialing players in different positions and concentrating on doing our best with what we have, refining players positive attributes, identifying and trying to fix their weaknesses etc.
JMK wants to be a top 5 hooker, stay back after training and practice hundreds of passes from the ruck fluently without that stupid wind up thing he does as if the ball is ocky strapped to the field.
Arghh...

 

[TwinTurbo]

JMK wants to be a top 5 hooker, stay back after training and practice hundreds of passes from the ruck fluently without that stupid wind up thing he does as if the ball is ocky strapped to the field.
Arghh...

In any training session that I have attended JMK would pass from the ruck many more than "hundreds" of times. Plus they run countless dummy play the balls with all players to practise speeding them up and JMK is involved in most of those. Despite what some would have us believe he does pass of the ground quite often, he does pass both left and right often and he does throw cut out passes often. At training players are there willing and able to receive his passes. In games, not so much, they have trouble getting to their structure and then executing it. In simple terms it's not all JMK's fault.

Always a Bulldog

 

[Ant2611]

Agree. He should know which side he is going and exactly who the pass is going to before the ball even gets played.
We need someone to mentor him or hook him from that position - preferably the latter as we have Mahoney coming next year. Better off giving someone else a shot for the rest of the year.
Baz has already chopped and changed the 7 spot, why not try a better 9 for the year?

Wakeham can pass from the ground, can tackle and is faster than JMK. I think he will get his chance at hooker this weekend. Could be his last chance at a resign for next year.

 

[Ant2611]

It shouldnt be. But Barrett appears to be a master at making it confusing, because on the park we look like 13 Stevie Wonders busting for a piss all looking for the toilets..

Oh you are awful!! Bazil.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

In any training session that I have attended JMK would pass from the ruck many more than "hundreds" of times. Plus they run countless dummy play the balls with all players to practise speeding them up and JMK is involved in most of those. Despite what some would have us believe he does pass of the ground quite often, he does pass both left and right often and he does throw cut out passes often. At training players are there willing and able to receive his passes. In games, not so much, they have trouble getting to their structure and then executing it. In simple terms it's not all JMK's fault.

Always a Bulldog

Good to here from someone that attends training sessions for their insight.
Have you noticed when watching games there are times where the ball is played and he hasnt realised the ball is at his feet. This isnt new.

 

[wendog33]

In any training session that I have attended JMK would pass from the ruck many more than "hundreds" of times. Plus they run countless dummy play the balls with all players to practise speeding them up and JMK is involved in most of those. Despite what some would have us believe he does pass of the ground quite often, he does pass both left and right often and he does throw cut out passes often. At training players are there willing and able to receive his passes. In games, not so much, they have trouble getting to their structure and then executing it. In simple terms it's not all JMK's fault.

Always a Bulldog

Well what's causing the problems then if they execute at training. Why not at the game do you reckon?

 

[Ant2611]

In any training session that I have attended JMK would pass from the ruck many more than "hundreds" of times. Plus they run countless dummy play the balls with all players to practise speeding them up and JMK is involved in most of those. Despite what some would have us believe he does pass of the ground quite often, he does pass both left and right often and he does throw cut out passes often. At training players are there willing and able to receive his passes. In games, not so much, they have trouble getting to their structure and then executing it. In simple terms it's not all JMK's fault.

Always a Bulldog

This is what I believe too. I think, especially our forwards, we are just not agile and fit enough for first grade standard, as shown after 20 mins or so.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Well what's causing the problems then if they execute at training. Why not at the game do you reckon?

Confidence is part of it, confidence in themselves and in their team mates. Similarly trust, they just don't trust their teammates to execute so they hesitate and often look like they are waiting for the mistake to happen. The plays they run in training, yes they do actually run plays, are pretty slick, but in games they look clunky. Players are out of position, even if it is a step or 2, doesn't look like much but it farks up the structure. Plus there is no coverage, if a player is out of the play for some reason the player who fills his position is unsure, hesitant.

They really desperately need game time together to get that confidence and build trust in each other. But when the team is losing it's next to impossible to pick and stick, particularly where we are right now with a number of players not cementing their positions.

FWIW from my limited viewing , this "lack of fitness" claim is bullshit, the work they get through at training is mind boggling.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Hound Dog]

Out attacking structures suck and pig headed Baz won’t adjust it to suit the capabilities of our roster

We have a hooker that has a cup of tea before he passes the ball and our big signing recruit has to play within a confined part of the field.

Our defence was good against the first 3 teams but we caught a well oiled machine Melbourne on their good day. If we had scored tries early at least 2, that game takes on a dar different complexion however we became frustrated we couldn’t score and the boys dropped their heads and before you knew it 16-0.

Interesting point about the scoring early tries. I would've taken a two point lead, many chances early on. Apply the pressure again. The defending up and down ten metres sucks a lot of energy, whereas a well oiled confident team with chemistry would be able to defend off their tryline and find ways to attack (as Melbourne done). Wasn't the time for us to try our hand in attack 10/20 meters out unless something was really on.
Barrett mentioned this in the press conference I didn't know what he meant because I watched the 1st half twice since live but now realise. We needed to apply pressure, professionally. Think of Soward at Dragons, they done it right. He'd take the penalty points and get the opposition defence back at the halfway running up and down again.

Defending on the line isn't as demanding as defending from halfway. Unless we had them on the backfoot we probably should've just taken the two, repeat sets, some magic will open later.

I also see a change in attack (for the better), we're creating more second phase play through offloads, we need to react more dangerous, find a way to give it to Dufty and BBO after offload, otherwise just run the extra meters as Thompson would do if he takes an offload. Body positioning for a catch needs to be better, asap they really need to get used to each teammates passing/receiving abilities and positioning, etc.

 

[Hound Dog]

Confidence is part of it, confidence in themselves and in their team mates. Similarly trust, they just don't trust their teammates to execute so they hesitate and often look like they are waiting for the mistake to happen. The plays they run in training, yes they do actually run plays, are pretty slick, but in games they look clunky. Players are out of position, even if it is a step or 2, doesn't look like much but it farks up the structure. Plus there is no coverage, if a player is out of the play for some reason the player who fills his position is unsure, hesitant.

They really desperately need game time together to get that confidence and build trust in each other. But when the team is losing it's next to impossible to pick and stick, particularly where we are right now with a number of players not cementing their positions.

FWIW from my limited viewing , this "lack of fitness" claim is bullshit, the work they get through at training is mind boggling.


Always a Bulldog

100% this!! Absolutely makes a world of a difference but too hard to build up confidence and trust, loud personalities helps here and finding positives (there's some as Gus mentioned) in video sessions and training.

However, and not the issue but I solidly believe if they can be the fitter than the other team it'll help them as well, they'd feel 1 step ahead and thinking clearer in the heat of the moment, keep in mind a lot of professional sportspeople can push past the pain barrier (especially with match fitness not general fitness) but to be sure, our players need to work on being super fit. I'm hoping the new training department has historical data or data from other teams, to beat benchmarks.