Opinion Our outside backs are shit because?

[Rockdog]

I was wondering why players like Allen, Cotric to name a couple, seemed so good at there previous clubs but now seem to offer very little at Canterbury. I’m not sure it’s entirely their fault.
I thought about ex players like Remis Smith, even the Morris boys and others. Who either prior to or after the bulldogs killed it at other clubs.
The problem is obviously our 9, 7, 6.
Our 1. Be it Meaney or DWZ have been converting on occasions
Our go forward from our pack isn’t perfect but we do get into our fair share of attacking positions in games but really struggle to convert.
I know I’m not saying anything you all don’t already know.
Until we have some experience and talent combined in these half positions our outside backs have no chance.
And I don’t see AddoCarr or Naden looking like the players we know until we fix things.
Even in the past it used to frustrate me how
J Moz rarely got any room to move with the ball, always seemed to get it too late or with no where to go. Lucky with the caliber of player we was, he forced things to happen. Still seems the same now when you see Schoupp Cotric, Allen get it with no space. They mainly gets it as a hit up from our danger zone.
For years the dogs can’t work a backline. It’s shithouse.
We still don’t know who will be the right 9 so it’s JMK for now.
We still don’t know who the 7 should be but maybe the experience of SJ is the key.
Burton will be here next year bringing some talent and X factor.
Im hoping that with getting these positions right we will start to see a backline finally working again for the bulldogs and that players like Cotric, Allen, etc will start looking like the players we hoped we signed.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Because it's about the ruck, the speed of our ruck play, a no.9 who can get the forwards on the front foot and forwards who actually go forward. Then you will see shit backs will look like better backs and great backs who will look like immortals. Case closed.

 

[Rockdog]

Because it's about the ruck, the speed of our ruck play, a no.9 who can get the forwards on the front foot and forwards who actually go forward. Then you will see shit backs will look like better backs and great backs who will look like immortals. Case closed.

Agree and then halves to capitalise.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Agree and then halves to capitalise.

That's right, but it will also make the job of your halves much easier, because you give them more time to make decisions.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

I was wondering why players like Allen, Cotric to name a couple, seemed so good at there previous clubs but now seem to offer very little at Canterbury. I’m not sure it’s entirely their fault.
I thought about ex players like Remis Smith, even the Morris boys and others. Who either prior to or after the bulldogs killed it at other clubs.
The problem is obviously our 9, 7, 6.
Our 1. Be it Meaney or DWZ have been converting on occasions
Our go forward from our pack isn’t perfect but we do get into our fair share of attacking positions in games but really struggle to convert.
I know I’m not saying anything you all don’t already know.
Until we have some experience and talent combined in these half positions our outside backs have no chance.
And I don’t see AddoCarr or Naden looking like the players we know until we fix things.
Even in the past it used to frustrate me how
J Moz rarely got any room to move with the ball, always seemed to get it too late or with no where to go. Lucky with the caliber of player we was, he forced things to happen. Still seems the same now when you see Schoupp Cotric, Allen get it with no space. They mainly gets it as a hit up from our danger zone.
For years the dogs can’t work a backline. It’s shithouse.
We still don’t know who will be the right 9 so it’s JMK for now.
We still don’t know who the 7 should be but maybe the experience of SJ is the key.
Burton will be here next year bringing some talent and X factor.
Im hoping that with getting these positions right we will start to see a backline finally working again for the bulldogs and that players like Cotric, Allen, etc will start looking like the players we hoped we signed.

It comes down to 2 things:
1) A crap 1, 6, 7 and 9 with no vision, creativity and virtually no running game.
2) Lack of fundamental passing skills especially in the above positions that stagnates the attack.
NRL spine players should be able to pass a spiral ball that lands just in front of the target so the player can run onto the ball. Instead our crap players mainly pass a wobbly ball that often lands behind the target player which means they have to stop or be stationary and momentum is lost. This is something that Andrew Johns highlighted about our team years ago and the defect remains.
Next year with Burton and hopefully SJ most of these problems will be fixed especially if we get a good hooker.

 

[Scoooby]

It comes down to 2 things:
1) A crap 1, 6, 7 and 9 with no vision, creativity and virtually no running game.
2) Lack of fundamental passing skills especially in the above positions that stagnates the attack.
NRL spine players should be able to pass a spiral ball that lands just in front of the target so the player can run onto the ball. Instead our crap players mainly pass a wobbly ball that often lands behind the target player which means they have to stop or be stationary and momentum is lost. This is something that Andrew Johns highlighted about our team years ago and the defect remains.
Next year with Burton and hopefully SJ most of these problems will be fixed especially if we get a good hooker.

I have to disagree a little, just a tad..

Avo and JMK actually have pretty good vision,since returning , Jeremy has a better read on the game at 9, and both have good running games.. you add the fox, burton and SJ (experience is key) get rid of some deadwood , and things are looking a hell of a lot better than we are seeing right now,we will be very dangerous come 22,

but hey, Just my opinion, No disrespect at all.!

 

[bradyk]

1. Meaney
6. Wakeham
7. Averillo
9. JMK

The worst (otherwise one of the worst) spine in the competition (no offence, love Averillo).

Unless your backs are like Sivo, Radrada (in his prime), Ferguson (in his prime), Oates (in his prime) or another Fijian god they aren't going to make an impact playing with a spine like that. We're also lacking slightly in the forwards (at least need one prop and possibly a second rower).

Also anyone in the backs without speed, e.g. Hopoate, Allan from what I've seen are useless in the game today.

 

[dogwhisperer]

It comes down to 2 things:
1) A crap 1, 6, 7 and 9 with no vision, creativity and virtually no running game.
2) Lack of fundamental passing skills especially in the above positions that stagnates the attack.
NRL spine players should be able to pass a spiral ball that lands just in front of the target so the player can run onto the ball. Instead our crap players mainly pass a wobbly ball that often lands behind the target player which means they have to stop or be stationary and momentum is lost. This is something that Andrew Johns highlighted about our team years ago and the defect remains.
Next year with Burton and hopefully SJ most of these problems will be fixed especially if we get a good hooker.

I bet you if you went to a dogs training session you will see that, you will see precision passing and creativity, hole running and the whole works.
These things break down in games because we get dominated up front, slow play the balls and a lack in a no.9 that gets his own forwards on the front foot. It doesn't matter how good your backs are, the backs will be limited in what they can do if your ruck play is shit. The ruck is so freakin important especially with the rule changes in the last couple of years. Forwards need to bend the line because this means they are not getting dominated in the tackle which means they can play the ball quicker, a smart and quick no.9 that can pass off the ground or scoop the ball and bring the next runner of the ball over the advantage line and with momentum. Any 6 or 7 with half a footy brain and outside backs with pace will know how to take advantage of these situations.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I bet you if you went to a dogs training session you will see that, you will see precision passing and creativity, hole running and the whole works.
These things break down in games because we get dominated up front, slow play the balls and a lack in a no.9 that gets his own forwards on the front foot. It doesn't matter how good your backs are, the backs will be limited in what they can do if your ruck play is shit. The ruck is so freakin important especially with the rule changes in the last couple of years. Forwards need to bend the line because this means they are not getting dominated in the tackle which means they can play the ball quicker, a smart and quick no.9 that can pass off the ground or scoop the ball and bring the next runner of the ball over the advantage line and with momentum. Any 6 or 7 with half a footy brain and outside backs with pace will know how to take advantage of these situations.

We've signed basically an entirely new backline in just over a year yet the only change to our starting pack has been Hetherington (shouldn't even be a starter)...so frustrating

 

[dogwhisperer]

We've signed basically an entirely new backline in just over a year yet the only change to our starting pack has been Hetherington (shouldn't even be a starter)...so frustrating

Yep, it's no surprise ever since we lost Graham, Klemmer, Pritchard, Kasiano, Finucane, Ennis etc etc and failed to replace them with anyone good our results have been shithouse.

 

[c-b-b]

The culture and losing mentality has alot to do with it as well. Just turn up play a game and collect your paycheck.

I wasn't sold on JAC but I think he will bring alot, he's already talking the place up and trying to get others to sign before he's even arrived..

There's a few players that need to be moved on because they've been in that culture for so long (some contracted).

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Yep, it's no surprise ever since we lost Graham, Klemmer, Pritchard, Kasiano, Finucane, Ennis etc etc and failed to replace them with anyone good our results have been shithouse.

Unfortunately there's fuck all available on the market for next season, TPJ is probably the best available but we probably need to be recruiting more disciplined players.

 

[The DoggFather]

Simple logic is that our forwards aren't making metres which effect our inexperienced halves which cripple our backs.

Add a rookie coach, disgusting depth and rubbish quality and use of the bench and it's not a mystery.

 

[Cujo]

Unfortunately there's fuck all available on the market for next season, TPJ is probably the best available but we probably need to be recruiting more disciplined players.

Yeah unless TPJ was on minimum salary he is not worth it. He turns up for 15 mins at a time every 4th game..shit off the field as well...disaster waiting to happen!!

 

[bulldogsmyte]

I have to disagree a little, just a tad..

Avo and JMK actually have pretty good vision,since returning , Jeremy has a better read on the game at 9, and both have good running games.. you add the fox, burton and SJ (experience is key) get rid of some deadwood , and things are looking a hell of a lot better than we are seeing right now,we will be very dangerous come 22,

but hey, Just my opinion, No disrespect at all.!

You are right about Avo and JMK. They both have good running games but they don't use it enough or at the right moment in games. There were times where the defence rushes up and Avo then passes the ball to a player who gets smashed straight away or he kicks the ball when the defence stays back. Next year can't come soon enough as we'll finally get quality halves in Burton and SJ (assuming it's a done deal).
Look at covid capital, riff and bunnies how their passes are quick and spiral from dummy half and the spine. Our passing has been shite for years and generally so has been our spine. Avo is our first HB in years who can run the ball effectively.

 

[Spoonman84]

Everyone has pretty much hit the nail on the head with the reasons but another minor one is how much the team has been chopped and changed.

There's been no chance to form any sort of combinations and it would be vitally important for a spine low on talent.

 

[Philmus]

Simple logic is that our forwards aren't making metres which effect our inexperienced halves which cripple our backs.

Add a rookie coach, disgusting depth and rubbish quality and use of the bench and it's not a mystery.

Not to mention the added fatigue we seem to have given how many 'ruck infringements' 6 agains we give away ensuring we defened 12 tackle sets and its no wonder were not seeing anything from them

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Simple logic is that our forwards aren't making metres which effect our inexperienced halves which cripple our backs.

Add a rookie coach, disgusting depth and rubbish quality and use of the bench and it's not a mystery.

Yes our current forwards are shite but on the few occasions where they dominate and get us in the red zone our halves don't create much like when Flanno kicks out on the full on tackle 1 against Saints. The problems with our halves go back more than 10 years. Even when we had the best forward pack in 2012 and made the GF off them and Barba we scored more tries from over 50 m than from within the red zone.
If we had quality halves that year we would have won the GF. Same in 2014. We still had the best forwards but the halves were the weakest link.

 

[Yougra]

I was wondering why players like Allen, Cotric to name a couple, seemed so good at there previous clubs but now seem to offer very little at Canterbury. I’m not sure it’s entirely their fault.
I thought about ex players like Remis Smith, even the Morris boys and others. Who either prior to or after the bulldogs killed it at other clubs.
The problem is obviously our 9, 7, 6.
Our 1. Be it Meaney or DWZ have been converting on occasions
Our go forward from our pack isn’t perfect but we do get into our fair share of attacking positions in games but really struggle to convert.
I know I’m not saying anything you all don’t already know.
Until we have some experience and talent combined in these half positions our outside backs have no chance.
And I don’t see AddoCarr or Naden looking like the players we know until we fix things.
Even in the past it used to frustrate me how
J Moz rarely got any room to move with the ball, always seemed to get it too late or with no where to go. Lucky with the caliber of player we was, he forced things to happen. Still seems the same now when you see Schoupp Cotric, Allen get it with no space. They mainly gets it as a hit up from our danger zone.
For years the dogs can’t work a backline. It’s shithouse.
We still don’t know who will be the right 9 so it’s JMK for now.
We still don’t know who the 7 should be but maybe the experience of SJ is the key.
Burton will be here next year bringing some talent and X factor.
Im hoping that with getting these positions right we will start to see a backline finally working again for the bulldogs and that players like Cotric, Allen, etc will start looking like the players we hoped we signed.

Well said. Our backline for years has looked pedestrian, no room to move, no slick passing or moves done at speed whereas nearly every other teams backline looks much slicker than ours.

Hopefully with new blood in the halves next year that might change

 

[albatross]

Because it's about the ruck, the speed of our ruck play, a no.9 who can get the forwards on the front foot and forwards who actually go forward. Then you will see shit backs will look like better backs and great backs who will look like immortals. Case closed.

Yeah, it's like the Entertainers in 79/80. Those outside backs were much better than now to be fair, but none were all that quick. It was just the service from Peponis, Turvey and Garry Hughes, and the tough mobile forwards, that created space for the backs to run and run. Apart from those teams, we've never had a backline that stands deep in attack no matter who the coach is. We're always dead flat, which is silly when you've got slower backs. The defence is always in our face!

And while I'm at it, why do we never have line speed in defence since Folkes? We seem to be happy to concede 50 or 60 easy metres every time, then just defend our line.