Manus Island

[Wolfmother]

I'm not sure what to think? So they've closed Manus Island and offered them another?

I don't see the issue

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I'm not sure what to think? So they've closed Manus Island and offered them another?

I don't see the issue

It all depends which side you believe. One side is saying that the new location is worse and the locals are attacking the refugees. The other side is saying that the refugees refuse to leave the old location and are only complaining because they want to go to Australia and are being stubborn.

It's hard to say who is telling the truth but there's no denying the reaction of the locals at the new location. They are calling it an invasion and publicly threatening to fight back. There have also been 7 deaths of refugees at the new location that are rumoured to be murders by the locals but the authorities refuse to investigate the deaths.

 

[Bob dog]

If they like it so much leave them there, helicopter drop them some ham n cheese from the Chinese bread shop once in a while.

 

[CaptainJackson]

It all depends which side you believe. One side is saying that the new location is worse and the locals are attacking the refugees. The other side is saying that the refugees refuse to leave the old location and are only complaining because they want to go to Australia and are being stubborn.

It's hard to say who is telling the truth but there's no denying the reaction of the locals at the new location. They are calling it an invasion and publicly threatening to fight back. There have also been 7 deaths of refugees at the new location that are rumoured to be murders by the locals but the authorities refuse to investigate the deaths.

The UN and Amnesty international have both said that the new accommodation is not ready

 

[Hacky McAxe]

The UN and Amnesty international have both said that the new accommodation is not ready

The problem is that they've already told the people that they need to leave the old accommodation immediately.

 

[Wolfmother]

The UN and Amnesty international have both said that the new accommodation is not ready

Their standards for ready are probably ideological not practical.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Their standards for ready are probably ideological not practical.

Pretty much. The UN representative visited the site and noted that there is still construction going on including ground works and building fences. Peter Dutton said that the accommodation is ready to use even though works are still going on.

The UN member mentioned, “It doesn’t look like it’s ready. I’m not an expert on engineering but, as a UNHCR officer who’s been working with refugees, I would not be bringing any refugees to stay there, not in that state. It’s not ready at this moment”. Hard to say how accurate that is considering it was one person looking through the facilities and they didn't even provide a full report. Just a response that they don't believe it's ready.

Keep in mind also that this was 9 days ago. Peter Dutton's comments saying "It's ready" we're two days ago.

The government's stance is that full security, food and medical facilities are in place at the new location while there's nothing at the old location. Not relocating is more dangerous than relocating.

The stance of the refugees is that they don't believe there will be enough security there and that they'll be attacked by the locals. This is based on the response from the locals and previous attacks but not based on any inspection of the new facilities.

 

[Wolfmother]

Pretty much. The UN representative visited the site and noted that there is still construction going on including ground works and building fences. Peter Dutton said that the accommodation is ready to use even though works are still going on.

The UN member mentioned, “It doesn’t look like it’s ready. I’m not an expert on engineering but, as a UNHCR officer who’s been working with refugees, I would not be bringing any refugees to stay there, not in that state. It’s not ready at this moment”. Hard to say how accurate that is considering it was one person looking through the facilities and they didn't even provide a full report. Just a response that they don't believe it's ready.

Keep in mind also that this was 9 days ago. Peter Dutton's comments saying "It's ready" we're two days ago.

The government's stance is that full security, food and medical facilities are in place at the new location while there's nothing at the old location. Not relocating is more dangerous than relocating.

The stance of the refugees is that they don't believe there will be enough security there and that they'll be attacked by the locals. This is based on the response from the locals and previous attacks but not based on any inspection of the new facilities.

Why would they be attacked by the locals? Just sounds like they're creating an opportunity to get sympathy so they can come to Australia

I'm in 2 minds about this.

To people who live in Australia the Third Worlds living conditions look appalling but to those who have always lived that way it's not appalling it's just normal.

It's like when people go on wow you poor thing, working overnight but to me it's no big deal.

 

[The DoggFather]

Why the fuck should we look after illegals when the government doesn't look after it's own People?

You want to come here, do it legally.

 

[Wolfmother]

Why the fuck should we look after illegals when the government doesn't look after it's own People?

You want to come here, do it legally.

They're too poor to immigrate to Australia.
The only way is to pose as a refugee

 

[belmore_utd]

Peter Dutton confirmed the accusations made by a former security guard on Manus that male refugees were often threatening to rape women and children. Yet the bleeding hearts still want to import them into our communities.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Why would they be attacked by the locals? Just sounds like they're creating an opportunity to get sympathy so they can come to Australia

The locals aren't happy about it. They keep calling it an invasion and have given death threats. Same thing happened when the original camp opened up. Any refugees who ventured out of the camp were attacked. There were many reports of refugees being raped and beaten. There were even 7 people killed. But the authorities didn't care so they did nothing to protect the refugees. Some reports even say that the police joined in on the beatings.

I'm in 2 minds about this.

To people who live in Australia the Third Worlds living conditions look appalling but to those who have always lived that way it's not appalling it's just normal.

It's like when people go on wow you poor thing, working overnight but to me it's no big deal.

There's a couple of points to it. The original state of the detention centre was appalling. It was barely liveable. But that was deliberate. When it was put in place by the Labor government they made it a horrible place to live in hopes that this would scare the refugees away. When the Liberals came to power they did nothing to fix it. When the problems finally came to light it ended up being months of Liberals blaming Labor and Labor blaming Liberals before anyone bothered doing anything to fix it. So eventually they allowed the detainees out and worked to fix up the centre.

Problem was that there was too much work to do to fix it up and while the detainees were outside the centre they were being attacked by the locals. So they ended up deciding to build these new centres. The refugees refused to move to the new centres so they cut off power and water to the old centre. The old centre has become a horrible, decrepit place due to no power and water. So the media has started selling it as "look at this horrible place the refugees have to live". But the media fails to mention that they are choosing to stay there. The old camp also doesn't have any security on it so if they're so afraid of security then they should move to the new camp.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Peter Dutton confirmed the accusations made by a former security guard on Manus that male refugees were often threatening to rape women and children. Yet the bleeding hearts still want to import them into our communities.

There has been shit from both sides. There have been confirmed reports of some of the guards raping and beating refugees along with the locals. It's a shit fight on all sides which was bound to happen when you set up a detention centre under a different government's rule.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Why the fuck should we look after illegals when the government doesn't look after it's own People?

You want to come here, do it legally.

Many of them try to. To move to Australia legally it takes a lot of money and many years. Most of the refugees are fleeing for their lives from war. The ones that come here illegally from non-wartorn countries usually come here on a travel Visa then disappear into the system. The ones from war torn countries give all their money to a random guy who promises to ferry them over knowing full well that there's only a tiny chance that they'll make it. Could you imagine paying everything you have for a chance to die at sea?

 

[CroydonDog]

The way Australia treats asylum seekers is fucking disgraceful. There are countries taking in hundreds of thousands of people (many much poorer than us - Uganda for example), and we send make out that 600 odd people is some massive issue and sent them to another third world country because we are too gutless to deal with it.

I'm in no way suggesting that everyone (or anyone for that matter) on Manus is genuine - that's not my job. But this whole offshore processing and treating a few hundred boat people so politically the way they are is shit. Almost all "illegals" arrive by an aeroplane, but its "boat people" who are all demonised (not to mention the ridiculous cost to the taxpayer).

Hacky is right on at least one thing - there is so much mis-information and knowing the full truth on conditions etc is hard to know, but when you have a government that tried to gag anyone who has seen these detention centres themselves, its hard to get the right information. One thing I do know about PNG, although i have never been there myself, I know plenty of people who have, and it is not a safe place. I doubt Peter Dutton would go anywhere there wihtout armed guards tbh.

 

[CroydonDog]

Why the fuck should we look after illegals when the government doesn't look after it's own People?

You want to come here, do it legally.

I see a lot of comments from people re looking after our "own people". Comments like: "why not look after the homeless first?". And I understand where are coming from.

Notwithstanding that its not illegal to seek asylum (but I don't think that's a point those with opposing view will ever agree on), I don't think it has to be an "either/or" issue. We can have a humane way to deal with refugees/asylum seekers AND have adequate programs for the poor/homeless etc.

Australia is supposed to be a rich, but also laid back and tolerant society, but over the last decade or so, i'm seeing less and less of the latter.

 

[Wolfmother]

The locals aren't happy about it. They keep calling it an invasion and have given death threats. Same thing happened when the original camp opened up. Any refugees who ventured out of the camp were attacked. There were many reports of refugees being raped and beaten. There were even 7 people killed. But the authorities didn't care so they did nothing to protect the refugees. Some reports even say that the police joined in on the beatings.



There's a couple of points to it. The original state of the detention centre was appalling. It was barely liveable. But that was deliberate. When it was put in place by the Labor government they made it a horrible place to live in hopes that this would scare the refugees away. When the Liberals came to power they did nothing to fix it. When the problems finally came to light it ended up being months of Liberals blaming Labor and Labor blaming Liberals before anyone bothered doing anything to fix it. So eventually they allowed the detainees out and worked to fix up the centre.

Problem was that there was too much work to do to fix it up and while the detainees were outside the centre they were being attacked by the locals. So they ended up deciding to build these new centres. The refugees refused to move to the new centres so they cut off power and water to the old centre. The old centre has become a horrible, decrepit place due to no power and water. So the media has started selling it as "look at this horrible place the refugees have to live". But the media fails to mention that they are choosing to stay there. The old camp also doesn't have any security on it so if they're so afraid of security then they should move to the new camp.

Its a messy situation, the issue seems to be that the refugees can't be verified as genuine.

Some of the refugees have been away from danger for 7 years.. Why can't they return back home?

 

[belmore_utd]

There has been shit from both sides. There have been confirmed reports of some of the guards raping and beating refugees along with the locals. It's a shit fight on all sides which was bound to happen when you set up a detention centre under a different government's rule.

Yup fuckloads of unsavory incidents from security and refugees alike.

Just because security is guilty of one such crime does not mean that refugees crimes should be overlooked.

Especially when it comes to rape. There are crimes that could be considered to be circumstantial including murder but rape is not excusable and no circumstance could anyone ever say they raped someone in self defense.

 

[The DoggFather]

Maybe not wasting 120 million on a bullshit plebiscite could of helped...

 

[CroydonDog]

Maybe not wasting 120 million on a bullshit plebiscite could of helped...

or $50B in an NBN network that isn't really one.