Opinion Key Feature Missing from Our Attack

[InGusWeTrust]

I realised something this past weekend that I don’t remember being mentioned on TK.

It was in relation to the many people raving about Brooks’ transformation since moving to Manly in contrast to the heavy criticism our Burton gets. Now, as anyone could tell from my comments, I think Brooks is just the flavour of the month and people are overrating his form, because of the storyline around him struggling at Tigers before.

Anyway, this isn’t about Brooks, but one key thing that I noticed which got me thinking is, he has the benefit of Trbo at Manly. Watching him yesterday most of what he did was just draw and pass to Tom who can then go himself or set up his outside men.

Just something to think about. Burto has copped a lot of criticism (some justified) but before judging him in the future, I think everyone should consider how important having a good, smart fullback makes to the halves.

It’s not just the five eighth and halfback job that’s been left up to Matt on many occasions, but he also hasn’t had very competent fullbacks either. I’m sure that the pressure to create has been a heavy burden, as he has been a constant while guys like Flanagan and Perham have come and gone, but like any good team, you need many hands contributing to be successful.

Eta: I should add that Taffy has chimed in well to the right side attack, but I don’t remember him popping up on the left.

 

[wendog33]

I realised something this past weekend that I don’t remember being mentioned on TK.

It was in relation to the many people raving about Brooks’ transformation since moving to Manly in contrast to the heavy criticism our Burton gets. Now, as anyone could tell from my comments, I think Brooks is just the flavour of the month and people are overrating his form, because of the storyline around him struggling at Tigers before.

Anyway, this isn’t about Brooks, but one key thing that I noticed which got me thinking is, he has the benefit of Trbo at Manly. Watching him yesterday most of what he did was just draw and pass to Tom who can then go himself or set up his outside men.

Just something to think about. Burto has copped a lot of criticism (some justified) but before judging him in the future, I think everyone should consider how important having a good, smart fullback makes to the halves.

It’s not just the five eighth and halfback job that’s been left up to Matt on many occasions, but he also hasn’t had very competent fullbacks either. I’m sure that the pressure to create has been a heavy burden, as he has been a constant while guys like Flanagan and Perham have come and gone, but like any good team, you need many hands contributing to be successful.

Eta: I should add that Taffy has chimed in well to the right side attack, but I don’t remember him popping up on the left.

Good point to raise IGWT. Collectively they can all help each other.
Compeitiveness goes hand in hand with confidence and performance.

 

[Powerslide]

So far this season, it seems that the Left side's attack is more structured, while the right side takes advantage of the opposition's defensive lapses. That could be for a couple of reasons yes Taaffe and other players popping up on the right giving us numbers but the opposition seems to be better drilled in numbering up on our left side.

Could also be that as we have been concentrating on defense so far, CC & JT have not shown their cards as far as attacking structures down the left. I know many are still critical of Burto, I even saw some criticising him for not staying on the left, but I am glad that he is looking for the ball and getting involved on both sides of the ruck.

 

[ElMagicElMasri]

Burton was still very poor on Sat imo

for all the talk he ran the ball only 4 times the whole game and 2 were because he had no choice after getting an offload

granted he didn’t need to overplay his hand and his kicking was good enough he is still far away from where he needs to be if we are going to do anything remotely serious this year

 

[haz123]

On top of that the other thing Brooks has that Burton doesn't.....
A state of Origin half back..
Just saying....

 

[Raikkonen]

Speaking of attack, Mahoney needs to stop overpaying his hand. Watching him skip across field from dummy half only resulted in opposition defence sliding, condensing and leaving no space for our link men or backline.

If we’ve got a 13 and 14 ball playing, and halves switching sides on occasion, Mahoney should focus more on giving good service first and straightening the attack if he does scoot out from dummy half.

 

[KLil]

Speaking of attack, Mahoney needs to stop overpaying his hand. Watching him skip across field from dummy half only resulted in opposition defence sliding, condensing and leaving no space for our link men or backline.

If we’ve got a 13 and 14 ball playing, and halves switching sides on occasion, Mahoney should focus more on giving good service first and straightening the attack if he does scoot out from dummy half.

I don't mind what Mahoney does but he needs to have a forward running a decoy line back through the middle for it to be a little more successful because like you said it gives the defensive line a chance to slide.

A casual dummy or even a dump pass here and there would do wonders in stuttering the line or even straightening the attack... Hopefully coaches introduce it because its so obvious.

 

[PeteHazz]

I realised something this past weekend that I don’t remember being mentioned on TK.

It was in relation to the many people raving about Brooks’ transformation since moving to Manly in contrast to the heavy criticism our Burton gets. Now, as anyone could tell from my comments, I think Brooks is just the flavour of the month and people are overrating his form, because of the storyline around him struggling at Tigers before.

Anyway, this isn’t about Brooks, but one key thing that I noticed which got me thinking is, he has the benefit of Trbo at Manly. Watching him yesterday most of what he did was just draw and pass to Tom who can then go himself or set up his outside men.

Just something to think about. Burto has copped a lot of criticism (some justified) but before judging him in the future, I think everyone should consider how important having a good, smart fullback makes to the halves.

It’s not just the five eighth and halfback job that’s been left up to Matt on many occasions, but he also hasn’t had very competent fullbacks either. I’m sure that the pressure to create has been a heavy burden, as he has been a constant while guys like Flanagan and Perham have come and gone, but like any good team, you need many hands contributing to be successful.

Eta: I should add that Taffy has chimed in well to the right side attack, but I don’t remember him popping up on the left.

Good post. I won't bang on like I normally do about Burton, but he can't win. Kicks long and gives Kiks good early ball, he's not running. He runs and he's not giving Kiks and Critta ball.

Turbo has two unusual attributes that make him (IMHO) unique as a fullback. Size AND speed. Because he roves both the edges and the ruck, it offers two benefits. Halves get more 1:1 opportunities in attack because the defence is watching Turbo and Turbo gets more 1:1 because both halves can now run. It's made brooks look very good running 1:1.

Burton doesn't have either of these. He will have something though, because after Saturday, Kiks will be more heavily marked, giving him room on the inside shoulder of the left edge. If Taaffe does more ruck roaming, it can only help, provided he can break the line/back up. I prefer Tracey because he's a stronger carry, looks faster and seems to have more in his playbook. If the FB (whoever it is) plays through the middle, breaks tackles/creates, and we find a halfback that runs, it's a very different attacking equation.

 

[Nate DAWG]

I think the attack will build as our defensive wall continues. I like that Burto is running more and feeding Kikz. I cant get over seeing that little germ Jason Taylor in our box with his smug face...but if the attack improves i will get used to it real quick! lol

 

[CaptainJackson]

He will have something though, because after Saturday, Kiks will be more heavily marked

We should be using preston the same way, he rubs good lines. We don't use him enough imo

 

[Bluebody]

I think Kiks has come into his own now and has set a new platform for those around him regarding defence and attack and the 1%ers.

Kiks has blown me away with his elite level of dominance and skill. Last year was a dud year for many reasons, including him losing his father.

But since Critta came over, Kiks and him appear to have forged an understanding to lead hard and compete even harder.

Over the next several weeks, more and more players are going to click at this new level in their support plays, effort plays and as a result the confidence of the team will continue to grow where every team in the NRL will be beatable for the Dogs on the day.

We are witnessing a very different year where the first 2 losses were just a part of the process as they found their feet and freaky refs made it extra hard. But everyone could see we were a different side.

CC finally got to get things coming together - he needed time and some players last year undermined the standards he was setting. They were meant to be leaders and they sabotaged the coaching direction and standards.

Last year's hiccup has become this years redemption to restore the standards. The players are so committed to each other it really shows - our defence will also get better.

I just hope injuries stay very low but the depth of our players is also great -Fox out and we are not skipping a beat on continuing to build momentum.

Titans were a shambles and we were always going to win, so this was more of a training run than a real game.

Souths is a shambles, but they have more fire power and mongrel in them - so it is up to us to turn it on again and humiliate them - I predict that.

We will however, have ups and downs but this time, we have a trajectory that continues to surge in the right direction with real leaders, leading by example.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

I don't mind what Mahoney does but he needs to have a forward running a decoy line back through the middle for it to be a little more successful because like you said it gives the defensive line a chance to slide.

A casual dummy or even a dump pass here and there would do wonders in stuttering the line or even straightening the attack... Hopefully coaches introduce it because its so obvious.

Decoys! Another thing that we don’t use much. Turning a forward back under can often look stupid, but what it does is put your opponent in two minds as to what you’re doing. Is it a decoy or are you passing to the forward? This is particularly useful with strong forwards like Kikau.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Burton was still very poor on Sat imo

for all the talk he ran the ball only 4 times the whole game and 2 were because he had no choice after getting an offload

granted he didn’t need to overplay his hand and his kicking was good enough he is still far away from where he needs to be if we are going to do anything remotely serious this year

This just tells me you expect a 6 to do way more than is realistic. He’s been fine the last 2 games.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Good post. I won't bang on like I normally do about Burton, but he can't win. Kicks long and gives Kiks good early ball, he's not running. He runs and he's not giving Kiks and Critta ball.

Turbo has two unusual attributes that make him (IMHO) unique as a fullback. Size AND speed. Because he roves both the edges and the ruck, it offers two benefits. Halves get more 1:1 opportunities in attack because the defence is watching Turbo and Turbo gets more 1:1 because both halves can now run. It's made brooks look very good running 1:1.

Burton doesn't have either of these. He will have something though, because after Saturday, Kiks will be more heavily marked, giving him room on the inside shoulder of the left edge. If Taaffe does more ruck roaming, it can only help, provided he can break the line/back up. I prefer Tracey because he's a stronger carry, looks faster and seems to have more in his playbook. If the FB (whoever it is) plays through the middle, breaks tackles/creates, and we find a halfback that runs, it's a very different attacking equation.

You bring up a good point that I didn’t explain in my OP. It’s the fact that Tom Trbo is such a threat that makes playing to and from him central to their attack. I mean just look at the difference between them with and without him. Just shows how important an elite fb can be.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

CC finally got to get things coming together - he needed time and some players last year undermined the standards he was setting. They were meant to be leaders and they sabotaged the coaching direction and standards.

It makes a big difference when you have all the “utilities” playing their roles to a fairly high standard aye? Last year we had too many average and/or young players to handle NRL intensity. Adding the likes of Critta, Tracey, Hutch, Mann, Curran and Salmon to the team means we at least have a 17 of mostly competent players. Sure some aren’t world beaters but the point is we are actually able to compete with most teams now. We also have enough talent to beat most teams.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Burton was still very poor on Sat imo

for all the talk he ran the ball only 4 times the whole game and 2 were because he had no choice after getting an offload

granted he didn’t need to overplay his hand and his kicking was good enough he is still far away from where he needs to be if we are going to do anything remotely serious this year

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The stats that I found interesting;
ran 7 times
made 15 tackles & didn't miss 1
9 kicks for 362 metres
3 bombs + 1 cross field
and lastly 0 errors

By far Burton's biggest effect was the long kicks 60/70/80 metres that tired the Titan's bigger forwards. Perhaps more importantly mentally demoralised them, turning them around and forcing them to run back lots of metres. Often taking 2/3/4 play the balls to get back on side. Especially when they have just spent 5 tackle sets working hard on limiting our metres.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Raysie]

It's no coincidence that we've been both shit and without a good Fullback for the last 10 years.

 

[KLil]

Decoys! Another thing that we don’t use much. Turning a forward back under can often look stupid, but what it does is put your opponent in two minds as to what you’re doing. Is it a decoy or are you passing to the forward? This is particularly useful with strong forwards like Kikau.

Anything that stutters a defensive line is enormous for space.. we saw what Hutches kick fake did and if it wasn't for Presto running an off line we would have scored.

I think it comes down to game time and cohesion.. players will start doing it themselves once the confidence and talk starts.

 

[flamebouyant]

I realised something this past weekend that I don’t remember being mentioned on TK.

It was in relation to the many people raving about Brooks’ transformation since moving to Manly in contrast to the heavy criticism our Burton gets. Now, as anyone could tell from my comments, I think Brooks is just the flavour of the month and people are overrating his form, because of the storyline around him struggling at Tigers before.

Anyway, this isn’t about Brooks, but one key thing that I noticed which got me thinking is, he has the benefit of Trbo at Manly. Watching him yesterday most of what he did was just draw and pass to Tom who can then go himself or set up his outside men.

Just something to think about. Burto has copped a lot of criticism (some justified) but before judging him in the future, I think everyone should consider how important having a good, smart fullback makes to the halves.

It’s not just the five eighth and halfback job that’s been left up to Matt on many occasions, but he also hasn’t had very competent fullbacks either. I’m sure that the pressure to create has been a heavy burden, as he has been a constant while guys like Flanagan and Perham have come and gone, but like any good team, you need many hands contributing to be successful.

Eta: I should add that Taffy has chimed in well to the right side attack, but I don’t remember him popping up on the left.

You make some good sense on this mate. Taffe may not be the perfect FB foil for Burton, but in a game where we had the upper hand and a good amount of possession etc, he definitely added to our attacking structure. He is quick off the mark and light on his feet, so im expecting his input will improve our attack moving forward.
Like ciraldo has said, our attack is a work in progress. We will improve on it as the year goes on.

 

[flamebouyant]

Burton was still very poor on Sat imo

for all the talk he ran the ball only 4 times the whole game and 2 were because he had no choice after getting an offload

granted he didn’t need to overplay his hand and his kicking was good enough he is still far away from where he needs to be if we are going to do anything remotely serious this year

Saying Burton was "very poor" is quite harsh imo. Burtons long kicks pinned them in there 20m zone every single set. This made it very difficult for their pack to get back on side and ruck it out again. It's how we managed to dominate them. Hutchinson did very little long kicks, so it was basically up to Burton, and a few kicks from Mahoney.