How will you measure success in 2020

Papa Joe

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
2,458
Reaction score
5,757
In my opinion - Top 8 will be a major success, anything less would not be good enough.
Then winning our first semi final would be amazing considering our inexperienced halves, it would be cause for a mini celebration.
 

DinkumDog

Kennel Immortal
2 x Gilded
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
23,012
Reaction score
42,492
While there is still players on back ended deals it is a factor but its certainly no where near as big of a issue as it was in previous seasons.

Pay and the club have had enough room to move with the cap situation to make their own decisions on players now so it can't be used as a excuse if we aren't winning games. Could it be used as a excuse for not being a top 4 team? Certainly.

Using Foran as a excuse is a cop out in my opinion there won't be a team in the NRL that always has their full roster available. The team has shown it can win games with out him in 2019 and the team has had a full off season to work on things without him.
An excuse? I’m not going to claim to know what Foran is on like some of our cap expert brethren, but it’s fair to say it’s close enough to 10% of the cap for 2020? 10% of your cap sitting on the sideline for let’s say at least 50% of the season is hardly what I’d call an excuse. It’s a combination of previous bad management (signing a broken player on massive dollars) and bad luck (said broken player proven to be broken ongoing). The fact remains that 2020 is the final year of cap pain where we still have one hand tied behind our back due to previous decisions. So yes, whilst 2020 is not as bad financially compared to 2018 and 2019, it’s still not blue sky...
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,924
Reaction score
19,191
I say bollocks to the bookies - they get it wrong as often as they get it right. We were tipped for the spoon in 2019 and that didn’t happen. Other teams tipped for the 8 like Penrif and Newcastle didn’t make it.

For a team that finished ONE win out of the finals last year with a squad hugely diminished in experience from the previous year, we actually did OK in the end after a terrible start.

For a more settled and more experienced squad going into 2020 compared to 2019 there is absolutely no reason we cannot make the 8.

The key for me will be a better, more consistent start and not dropping games we should’ve won (Manly, Canberra) as we did in 2019 - if we won those two as we should have - we make the 8.
You're right every season there are teams that do better or worse than expected. If we start strong the bookies will change too (look at Manly last year). At the moment it looks like we have a mental block when the pressure is on regarding ladder position/finals contention (I also think we lack talent across the field compared to the majority of the other teams and if we lack effort as well we're no chance). Going into the season my expectations are what I've stated (combination of bookies and my own thoughts) but I will reassess as the season progresses. We also need to remember if we didn't sign DWZ mid season and he didn't have the impact we had we most likely would of finished wooden spooners or second last. Our most creative Half on 10% of our salary cap is out for the majority of the season too.
 
Last edited:

Dognacious

Kennel Immortal
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
NF Draft Champion
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
23,593
Reaction score
11,028
If we play like the last few months of 2019 all year we make the 8. If we don't this year with no excuses (We didn't lose 3 rep players this offseason) then it's a fail. So top 8 is the kpi
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
An excuse? I’m not going to claim to know what Foran is on like some of our cap expert brethren, but it’s fair to say it’s close enough to 10% of the cap for 2020? 10% of your cap sitting on the sideline for let’s say at least 50% of the season is hardly what I’d call an excuse. It’s a combination of previous bad management (signing a broken player on massive dollars) and bad luck (said broken player proven to be broken ongoing). The fact remains that 2020 is the final year of cap pain where we still have one hand tied behind our back due to previous decisions. So yes, whilst 2020 is not as bad financially compared to 2018 and 2019, it’s still not blue sky...
Wheeling excuses out before a ball has been kicked has been way too easy for the club in the last few years. Sure some has been valid but it’s got to stop. What percentage of the cap Foran takes up is a moot point once the 17 is on the field and it was shown last season the team can win with out him. It’s not one hand tied behind our back anymore the club has made recruitment decisions with this current roster that they now have to live by. As I said before theres no excuses to not be ultra competitive and winning our fair of games when money is on the table. Top 4 and winning comps isn’t happening yet because of the previous cap management but using that as a excuse for anything else is a cop out as far as I’m concerned.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,924
Reaction score
19,191
Wheeling excuses out before a ball has been kicked has been way too easy for the club in the last few years. Sure some has been valid but it’s got to stop. What percentage of the cap Foran takes up is a moot point once the 17 is on the field and it was shown last season the team can win with out him. It’s not one hand tied behind our back anymore the club has made recruitment decisions with this current roster that they now have to live by. As I said before theres no excuses to not be ultra competitive and winning our fair of games when money is on the table. Top 4 and winning comps isn’t happening yet because of the previous cap management but using that as a excuse for anything else is a cop out as far as I’m concerned.
Take Cameron Smith out of the Storm and replace him with B. Smith or Grant (both good replacements to be fair we don't have that luxury) they scrape into the bottom eight for a team expected to finish second. You can apply this to many teams. If you think competing without 10% of your salary cap (even more for us due to back ended deals and paying players elsewhere) isn't an excuse I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't mean we throw in the towel and give up but you can't expect a miracle.
 

Natboy

Banned
Premium Member
SC H2H Champion
SC Top Scorer
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
8,945
Reaction score
11,608
Wheeling excuses out before a ball has been kicked has been way too easy for the club in the last few years. Sure some has been valid but it’s got to stop. What percentage of the cap Foran takes up is a moot point once the 17 is on the field and it was shown last season the team can win with out him. It’s not one hand tied behind our back anymore the club has made recruitment decisions with this current roster that they now have to live by. As I said before theres no excuses to not be ultra competitive and winning our fair of games when money is on the table. Top 4 and winning comps isn’t happening yet because of the previous cap management but using that as a excuse for anything else is a cop out as far as I’m concerned.
Agree to disagree. We aren’t as affected this year but it’s definitely still an important factor and cannot just be forgotten when weighing all factors up
 

GA45

Kennel Addict
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Messages
6,691
Reaction score
8,183
Pushing for a place in the top 8. I’m not a huge Pay fan but if he can develop a culture of us against the world and our guys compete every game I’ll give him a pass. Our forwards need to lead the way or fuck off

Giving more opportunities to our own junior players and not forking out big dollars for big names that do fuck all ( Foran, TRex types) is also a must for me. We seem to be linked to any name out there and I don’t think we need to buy all the big names if we have our junior system back on track.
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
Take Cameron Smith out of the Storm and replace him with B. Smith or Grant (both good replacements to be fair we don't have that luxury) they scrape into the bottom eight for a team expected to finish second. You can apply this to many teams. If you think competing without 10% of your salary cap (even more for us due to back ended deals and paying players elsewhere) isn't an excuse I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't mean we throw in the towel and give up but you can't expect a miracle.
We are paying Foran ridiculous overs so comparing him to Smith who is value for his 10% is a bad example. Foran hasn’t been involved enough since he joined the club to be that much of a major factor that he is missing again. The Storm missing Smith leaves a much bigger hole to file then Foran does for us.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,924
Reaction score
19,191
We are paying Foran ridiculous overs so comparing him to Smith who is value for his 10% is a bad example. Foran hasn’t been involved enough since he joined the club to be that much of a major factor that he is missing again. The Storm missing Smith leaves a much bigger hole to file then Foran does for us.
Foran is still our best player. He's on 10% of our salary cap (add that with our other issues) which prevents us from spending it elsewhere on the squad (we're competing millions under the salary cap). I'd say it's much worse for us than Storm that have a much better team across the field than us. They also have better replacements than we do. You can't deny it's an excuse and hinders our chances.
 

CrittaMagic69

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Gilded
SC H2H Champion
2 x SC Draft Champ
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
73,103
Reaction score
78,861
Pay not being a gronk and pushing for that final spot in the 8.
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
Foran is still our best player. He's on 10% of our salary cap (add that with our other issues) which prevents us from spending it elsewhere on the squad (we're competing millions under the salary cap). I'd say it's much worse for us than Storm that have a much better team across the field than us. They also have better replacements than we do. You can't deny it's an excuse and hinders our chances.
Spending the money elsewhere certainly is a factor I’ll give you that. Foran has never produced value for money even when fit. That’s why I don’t see it being that big of a excuse. A player on Foran’s money should be dominating games week in, week out and he doesn’t do that so the hole he leaves isn’t as big.
 

maroondog72

Kennel Immortal
Gilded
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
15,925
Reaction score
27,752
winning some early season matches for mine
 

wendog33

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Ladder Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
25,537
Reaction score
29,139
Foran is still our best player. He's on 10% of our salary cap (add that with our other issues) which prevents us from spending it elsewhere on the squad (we're competing millions under the salary cap). I'd say it's much worse for us than Storm that have a much better team across the field than us. They also have better replacements than we do. You can't deny it's an excuse and hinders our chances.
"(add that with our other issues) which prevents us from spending it elsewhere on the squad (we're competing millions under the salary cap)."

I know I'm gonna regret this but...could you explain factually how we are competing millions under the salary cap ...if it is mandatory that 95% of the sc MUST be spent?

Are we still paying Mbye, Woods, Graham, Klemmer? All the rest left after their contract expired?

It's regulated so we must be spending 9 million atm on our roster.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,924
Reaction score
19,191
Spending the money elsewhere certainly is a factor I’ll give you that. Foran has never produced value for money even when fit. That’s why I don’t see it being that big of a excuse. A player on Foran’s money should be dominating games week in, week out and he doesn’t do that so the hole he leaves isn’t as big.
Foran is or almost is our best player every time he's on the field? He has done more than all of our halves combined and he played 14 games (and didn't finish all of them) last season. If Foran was injury free last season we make the eight (I still think he's one of the best five-eighths in the game and that isn't why you don't get bang for buck with him).
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
"(add that with our other issues) which prevents us from spending it elsewhere on the squad (we're competing millions under the salary cap)."

I know I'm gonna regret this but...could you explain factually how we are competing millions under the salary cap ...if it is mandatory that 95% of the sc MUST be spent?

Are we still paying Mbye, Woods, Graham, Klemmer? All the rest left after their contract expired?

It's regulated so we must be spending 9 million atm on our roster.
No one knows the exact figures but Tolman, Hoppa, Elliott, Jackson, Foran, Holland and Montoya could all be possibly on backended deals as they signed contracts while the old administration was in charge.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,924
Reaction score
19,191
"(add that with our other issues) which prevents us from spending it elsewhere on the squad (we're competing millions under the salary cap)."

I know I'm gonna regret this but...could you explain factually how we are competing millions under the salary cap ...if it is mandatory that 95% of the sc MUST be spent?

Are we still paying Mbye, Woods, Graham, Klemmer? All the rest left after their contract expired?

It's regulated so we must be spending 9 million atm on our roster.
We're spending all of our cap but we're still carrying players on back ended deals (including Foran who isn't going to feature much if at all next season, Hopoate, Tolman and a lot of the players we still have from Des' time). I'm not exactly sure who and how many players we're paying to play elsewhere but there are some of them and this* year is the last year for that too (Mbye would almost be a certainty).
 
Last edited:

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
Foran is or almost is our best player every time he's on the field? He has done more than all of our halves combined and he played 14 games (and didn't finish all of them) last season. If Foran was injury free last season we make the eight (I still think he's one of the best five-eighths in the game and that isn't why you don't get bang for buck with him).
The rest of our team and specifically the halves are rubbish he should be the best player but he still doesn’t do enough to demand that money. He might do one or two nice plays a game but should be dominating and be doesn’t.
 
Top