'Hell is better than prison in Syria'

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Fully Sik Drop kick

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'Hell is better than prison in Syria'
Former prisoners, families push for release of detainees

By Spencer Osberg
Special to The Daily Star
Friday, December 23, 2005



BEIRUT: "You longed for death, and you wished to be in hell, because it is better than to be in the prison in Syria," says Michel Sweidan, 38, who endured five years of limb-twisting torture and beatings at the hands of his Syrian captors. Sweidan says his last memory before his time in prison was of being a young, 23-year-old militiaman with the Lebanese Forces in 1993 eating at a restaurant in the Raouche neighborhood of Beirut. When he woke up he was in a Syrian prison.

"In Syria's prisons, you will not just see Christians or Lebanese Forces, you will see people from Amal, from Hizbullah, from Shoyoui (Communist party), Kawmiye (Syrian Social Nationalist Party), Kataeb (Phalange), from all of them, all of them Lebanese," he adds, noting the message from Syria to the different sects and militias was "all the Lebanese will be arrested if they do not do whatever we want."

Sweidan was part of a demonstration put on by former Lebanese detainees of Syrian prisons Thursday night at Martyrs' Square.

Sweidan and 121 other prisoners were released in 1998, and, for the most part, have had difficulty being accepted back into Lebanese society, are unable to find work, and receive no aid from the government.

"The Syrians [are] barbarians," he hisses. "They [taught] me how to hate, and I will never forgive them. I will hate them - hate them - until the end of my life."

Samira Zakharia has chained herself to hope for two decades that her son will be released.

"He was 26-years-old when he was kidnapped," she says, clutching a faded photograph of Iskandar, a smiling young man in a graduation gown and mortarboard cap. "Now he is 46. Imagine that, 20 years in a Syrian prison."

Zakharia was among some 30 demonstrators gathered outside the UN House in Downtown Beirut in the afternoon, calling for the international body to help free their sons, brothers and husbands from Syrian jails.

For Zakharia, the ordeal began in 1985 when three armed militiamen came to her house in West Beirut, forced open her front door and demanded to see her son.

"We want to ask him just three questions then we'll bring him back," she remembers them saying. "I told them, 'No, ask him here in the house.' He said, 'No, we want to take him.'"

They then threatened to take the whole family, so her son went. She later learned Iskandar was turned over to the Syrian Army.

As recently as three months ago, Zakharia says several former prisoners approached her after seeing a photo of her son.

"They said, 'We have seen him in the prison, in Mazze,' and then he was taken to Sidnaya," she says wearily. "The Syrian government says 'We don't have anybody here,' but they are liars."

Reports on the number of Lebanese remaining in Syrian prison vary widely, with former prisoners and families putting the number anywhere between 200 and 800.

Some say those still missing are already dead, but Zena Aoun refuses to give up hope.

Her brother, Elias Aoun, was with the Lebanese Army in Baabda on October 13, 1990, when he disappeared. A former prisoner who'd been held at the Tadmor prison in Syria came to her in 2000 to tell Aoun he had seen her brother.

Zena was among the many families that had camped outside the ESCWA building this year to pressure the UN for assistance. She says none was forthcoming. Asked if she thought these demonstrations would make a difference, she replied: "No. But I'm here because I need my brother back."


http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=20968
 

F R 3 D 5 7 A

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Fully Sik Drop kick said:
"The Syrians [are] barbarians," he hisses. "They [taught] me how to hate, and I will never forgive them. I will hate them - hate them - until the end of my life."
That is incitng hatred towards Syrian, as a people.

And unsuprising that a "christian phalangist" has come out and said this.

The Maronites I know are a renegade bunch. I have had this discussion with my gf bout this already. Most, if not all the Maronites I know personally, are extremists. They can not stand others.

I am only speaking on the Maronites I know.

Most of the Orthodox I know, are very tolerant of others. Understanding and tolerant. We seem to be more open-minded and not driven by power.

May I make clear, I am speaking of the people I know. I am not generalising on a whole.
 

F R 3 D 5 7 A

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Questions to FSDK:

1) Why do the Lebanese Forces have their "own" shaped cross?

2) Why do they fly their "own" flag? The one with the tree, and the red circle?

Always wondered.

Also, why do the maronites look down on us Orthodox, even though we are both Christians? For example, my gf dad used to call her mum a muslim coz she was orthdox. He was Maronite. Way Extreme!

I would class this as an isolated incident, but its happened way to often to class it as isolated.
 
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Fully Sik Drop kick

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F R 3 D 5 7 A said:
That is incitng hatred towards Syrian, as a people.

And unsuprising that a "christian phalangist" has come out and said this.

The Maronites I know are a renegade bunch. I have had this discussion with my gf bout this already. Most, if not all the Maronites I know personally, are extremists. They can not stand others.

I am only speaking on the Maronites I know.

Most of the Orthodox I know, are very tolerant of others. Understanding and tolerant. We seem to be more open-minded and not driven by power.

May I make clear, I am speaking of the people I know. I am not generalising on a whole.

yeah watever, i'd like to see how u react if u got locked up ofr no reason in those barbaric conditions. wat do expect them to do, kiss the syrian's feet & asses?? pffft, no way, it's bad enough being locked up without charge, & treated like an animal.


& now u blame Maronites as a renegade bunch, hehehehee, smallaah alaik ya F R 3 D 5 7 A, if Maronites we're tolerant, why the hell do we have Orthodox, & non christians who attend masses at our churches, & we accept them with open arms, regardless of nationality or their background.

This isnt a religious issue. Maronites just happen to be the majority in Lebanon who stand up to syrian occupiers & influence. read the article, even shiites & muslims were imprisoned by syria, real allies aye!!!!!
 

F R 3 D 5 7 A

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Fully Sik Drop kick said:
pffft, no way, it's bad enough being locked up without charge, & treated like an animal.
I can name many countries who do this. Many, MANY

Its just another anti-Syrian push.
 

F R 3 D 5 7 A

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Anyway, lets keep this for another time.

It is a time for peace, not hate and war.
 

Fully Sik Drop kick

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F R 3 D 5 7 A said:
Questions to FSDK:

1) Why do the Lebanese Forces have their "own" shaped cross?

2) Why do they fly their "own" flag? The one with the tree, and the red circle?

Always wondered.

Also, why do the maronites look down on us Orthodox, even though we are both Christians? For example, my gf dad used to call her mum a muslim coz she was orthdox. He was Maronite. Way Extreme!

I would class this as an isolated incident, but its happened way to often to class it as isolated.

Question to F R 3 D 5 7 A, why dont u ask your girl or her dad???

The Lebanese Forces no longer are allowed to use the cross as their symbol as part of The oppositions plan to unite Lebanon as one agianst syrian occupation.

& with the flag thin, well every political party has their own, flag, even labor & liberal parties here in Australia have their own Australian flag symbols or logos. That's a pretty easy understand, & ther is no "anti syrian" conspiracy behind the flag symbol, just patritism towards the Cedar of Lebanon.

Unless ofcourse ur upset coz we dont wave or fly the syrian flag, with a picture of bashar al assad...............:D
 

F R 3 D 5 7 A

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Fully Sik Drop kick said:
Unless ofcourse ur upset coz we dont wave or fly the syrian flag, with a picture of bashar al assad...............:D

Patrioitism.

And dont worry, the "maronite majority" get their way in Lebanon. No one stopping you guys, as long as the US conspires to keep killing politicians (then blame Syria) to get the Lebanese to continue to HATE the Syrians.


The gf dad happened once. Im talking about Maronites continual bagging Orthdox people. Its happened many times to me by few maronites I know.
 

F R 3 D 5 7 A

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To me we are the same. To them we are not.

And ONCE AGAIN FSDK, I am talking bout the people I know. I am not generalisng. I thought that was made very clear in my first post.
 

the artist

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the voice of "HIS" oppressed Brothers has spoken!!!!!

over and out
 

smarty

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F R 3 D 5 7 A said:
And dont worry, the "maronite majority" get their way in Lebanon. No one stopping you guys, as long as the US conspires to keep killing politicians (then blame Syria) to get the Lebanese to continue to HATE the Syrians.
and you know this how? i respect that you're pro-syrian and anti-american but don't make statements like that without any proof to back it up, some people on this board might actually believe you.
 

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marty said:
and you know this how? i respect that you're pro-syrian and anti-american but don't make statements like that without any proof to back it up, some people on this board might actually believe you.

And u should apply the same to those implicating and blaming Syria WITHOUT A SHRED OF PROOF, other than a US pressured UN report.

To find the culprit of Hariri and Teuni deaths, look at who stood most to gain, and who had most to lose.

Lose = Syrians

Gain - Israel, anti-Syrian forces, US.

Logic tells you, that the killings are designed at pitting lebanese against Syrians. To HATE and divide. To isolate Syria.

And may i remind people, that a survey was conducted and ONLY 28% of the Lebanese wanted Syria out. Hardly constitues a majority. This survey was posted in the ME affairs thread I think, or the "Gebran Tueni Dead?" thread.

Thank you.
 

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yeah but i don't really see anyone on this board blaming syria, do you?
 

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A frightening "Strategy for Israel"
By Linda S. Heard
Online Journal Contributing Writer


Nov 30, 2005, 01:24

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The other day I was handed the translation of a paper written by Israeli journalist Oded Yinon as far back as 1982. Ah! Old news, I thought. I'll get around to browsing through it one of these days. When later, the person who proffered the document, asked me about my conclusions, I grabbed my spectacles and sat down for what I thought would be a dull read. How wrong I was!

Yinon, who was attached to Israel's Foreign Ministry, published his paper, titled "A Strategy for Israel in the 1980s," in Kivunim (Directions) a "journal for Judaism and Zionism," and if the Association of Arab-American University graduates hadn't widely distributed the article, it might have disappeared down the memory hole.

Unfortunately, as the document is 11 pages long, I can only give you the gist but it can be found in its entirety on the Internet.

The basic premises of the plan are these: In order to survive Israel must become an imperial regional power and must also ensure the break-up of all Arab countries so that the region may be carved up into small ineffectual states unequipped to stand up to Israeli military might.

Yinon described the Arab-Muslim world as "a temporary house of cards put together by foreigners and arbitrarily divided into states, all made up of combinations of minorities and ethnic groups which are hostile to one another."

He then goes on to predict that some of these states face ethnic social destruction from within "and in some a civil war is already raging."

The writer goes on to bemoan Israel's relinquishment of the Sinai to Egypt under the Camp David Peace Treaty due to that area's "oil, gas and other natural resources."

"Regaining the Sinai Peninsula is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by Camp David . . . , he writes . . ."and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979."

Yinon then predicts that if Egypt is divided and torn apart some other Arab countries will cease to exist in their present form and a Christian Coptic state would be founded in Upper Egypt. (I always wondered why Egypt was referred to as 'the prize' in a 2002 Rand presentation to the Pentagon at the behest of chief neo-conservative and friend of Israel Richard Perle)

Now how about this?

"The dissolution of Syria and Iraq later on into ethnically or religiously unique areas such as in Lebanon is Israel's primary target in the long run, while the dissolution of the military power of those states serves as the primary short term target," he writes.

"Iraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other, is guaranteed as a candidate for Israel's targets," says Yinon. Its dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria. In the short run it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel."

"Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and Lebanon. In Iraq, three or more states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul."

Remember that Yinon's paper was penned in 1982.

But the writer also makes grave mistakes of judgment. For instance, he felt certain that both Jordan and Egypt would revert to Nasser-style Pan-Arab philosophies and break their treaties with Israel, which was what Yinon hoped they would do. But it didn't happen.

Yinon further predicted "there is no chance that Jordan will continue to exist in its present structure for a long time and Israel's policy both in war and in peace, ought to be directed at the liquidation of Jordan."

This was because Yinon wanted to see the transfer of Palestinian Arabs from the West Bank into Jordan. "It is not possible to go on living in this country in the present situation without separating the two nations, the Arabs to Jordan and the Jews to the areas west of the river," he says.

Was Yinon's paper the precursor of the 1996 "Clean Break: A new strategy for securing the realm" document authored by current and former Bush administration leading lights, such as Richard Perle, Douglas Feith as well as David and Meyrav Wurmser on behalf of Benjamin Netanyahu?

"Clean Break" advised the Israeli government to "publicly question Syria's legitimacy," contain Syria and strike selected targets, and "reject" the land for peace concept related to the Golan Heights.

It was also proposed that Syria should be isolated and surrounded by a friendly regime in Iraq, while Arab states should be challenged as "police states" lacking legitimacy. Isn't this exactly what is happening today as part of Bush's democratization policy?

Richard Perle -- who journalist and film-maker John Pilger describes as one of George W. Bush's thinkers -- later pops up again in the 2000 Project for the New American Century document, which lays out the neocon vision for US domination of the land, seas, skies and space.

Pilger writes in December 2002: "I interviewed Perle when he was advising Reagan; and when he spoke about 'total war', I mistakenly dismissed him as mad. He recently used the term again in describing America's 'war on terror'. 'No stages,' he said. 'This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there.

"'All this talk we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq . . . this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war . . . our children will sing great songs about us years from now'."

Those children that survive, maybe, but I'll bet that Perle and gang are far more likely to go down in the annals of history alongside mankind's most brutal, ruthless and self-serving

source: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_280.shtml
 

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all orthodox tolerant of maronites??... habibi there is so many orth i know that can not stand maronites... in every situation there is going to be with /against for each side. so there is no point in stating the obvious, if u know what i mean, because it will give that "particular group" a false image to people who dont know us.
 

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well that report never suprised me at all fredsta...

israel was there for a lot of purposes after WW2... the brits and the americans knew there is oil and gas in the middle east and they are using israel as the key to de-stabilise the arab nations by making them turn on each other so they can have the control over gas and oil...

the americans know that the UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Iraq, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia make at least $US4Trillion per year in oil production.
 

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ozman said:
well that report never suprised me at all fredsta...

israel was there for a lot of purposes after WW2... the brits and the americans knew there is oil and gas in the middle east and they are using israel as the key to de-stabilise the arab nations by making them turn on each other so they can have the control over gas and oil...
QUOTE]

Exactly right.

Thats the point i have been making for weeks and months.

The US and Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to keep the region in turmoil. To keep arabs divided. Whatever it takes, eve killing politicians. Afterall Israel authorisez "targetted assisinations" that would increase Israel's security and interests in the region.

The point I was also making, is that Lebanon is for the Lebanese. Not for Syrians. Not for Israel. Not for US.

Lebanon and Syria side by side as neighbours.

But in the context of the Mid East policies of US and Israel, it is very hypocritical that Syrians must obey orders, get out of Lebanon, listen to the UN, threatened with sanctions and bombardement, yet Israel and US continue to do as they please, with no one to answer to, besdies themselves.

And logic will tell you, whoever killed Hariri and Teuni, had one sole purpose - to divide the Lebanese. To cause chaos in Lebanon. To get the Lebanese to HATE the Syrians.

Whoever killed them, knew that Syria would be blamed IMMEDIATELY. Therefore whoever killed them both, knew the ramifications against Syria. The ramifications that would help Israel and the US interests in the region.

Now that the report against Syria is seen as a political witch-hunt and false/forced witness testimonies, rather than to find the REAL CRIMINALS, some Lebanese now claim that no matter who killed Hariri, the Syrians are out. But these are the same people that chanted Hariri's name, held pictures of him, blamed Syria, rallied against his death, and Syria must pay for his death.

Some people can be blinded by power and greed. To use a persons death for political purposes the way they did, then to turn around and say doesnt matter who killed him, the Syrians are out, is very sad indeed. New meaninig to R.I.P.


I am not saying "Oh poor Syria", but what I am saying, is that perhaps the Lebanese should look at other "evil" forces lurking in the midst of Lebanon, rather than just take the easy US-led and Jumbullsh1t(Jumblatt) way of blaming EVERY SINGLE THING on Syria.


On another topic.....

A kennel (no disclosure of names) said that during the race riots, that the muslims would be blamed in the eyes of the Aust public for the church that got burnt, whether they did it or not. A fellow kenneler (no disclose of name) said that no one on the kennel blamed syria....no one needs to blame Syria on the kennel for Hariri and Teuni death (although some have), they are already convicted in the eyes of the International community coz the US said so, whether they did it or not, and evidence/reports/investigations would be pressured, forged, falisified, politicised etc to pin the blame on Syria...

Mehlis said Syria has the intelligance and capabilites to blow Hariri up. However it did not investigate OTHER nations/intelligance groups with the capabilites and motive to kill such a powerful bloke. One can conclude, based on that alone, that the UN report is nothing but a "target Syria only" document.

What im saying is that I can understand the frustration and anger of the Lebanese in Lebanon, but should look at the broader picture and other "forces" who intend on dividing the Lebanese.

*I purposely did not disclose Kenneler's names in order not to upset those members. I used their comments to illustrate my point. They were not intended to criticise or undermine their point of view.
 
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