Elliott the strongest at the Dogs (according to Lewis)

utility half said:
Show me the stat to prove he averages 5m a hit up?

Your opinion is being driven by your dislike for the guy and you’re talking complete and utter shit. Lol
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His 7.something average last season was above average for him.

As I said I'm going to start an adam dudiot performance thread for this season. His stats and his high/low lights will be pointed out then.
 
CaptainJackson said:
Can the elliot supporters please do me a favour. Dont suddenly disappear from the elliot threads when the footy starts.
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I’m no Elliott supporter but I support the bulldogs and don’t take every opportunity to put shit on players giving their guts for us. Some of the big mouthes on here probably found under 6 soccer too tough for them
 
CaptainJackson said:
Can the elliot supporters please do me a favour. Dont suddenly disappear from the elliot threads when the footy starts.
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Can the Elliot bashers please do us all a favour and provide some actual facts to support their views when the footy starts.
FWIW, I'm not an "Elliot supporter" I'm just someone who likes to see some real data to back up the extreme views expressed in some posts.

Go Dogs
 
Natboy II said:
I’m no Elliott supporter but I support the bulldogs and don’t take every opportunity to put shit on players giving their guts for us. Some of the big mouthes on here probably found under 6 soccer too tough for them
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Why would i support a player if for some irrational reason of the coaches hes keeping more talented players out of the team
 
wendog33 said:
Utility I was trying to be even handed by saying that Adam's mistakes are noticable on the field. For some reason his fumbles get noticed where others aren't as much.

Just my opinion but I reckon he could run for 200m a game and it wouldn't bring much in the way of results towards winning a game or a try scoring linebreak.

I hope he has a purple patch this year in the same way a few other "steady" backrowers have for us in the past.

He is in the Gillies, Morrin, Cassillis, Coveney, Moffett style of player. Did their job but weren't game breakers. We could afford that back in those days cos we had elite spine players.

I wouldn't knock the guy but IMO he is ineffectual unless he plays to the utmost of his ability this year and I wouldn't be re-signing him unless he does because we have some potential talent coming through.

He is below the 2ndrowers and locks we already have on the books.

Just my opinion atm based on what he has shown us so far, as I don't want to lose any of them over him atm on potential.

Wish him all the best for the season.

There'll always be good and bad posters on TK AND scapegoats. Just the way it is.
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You’re certainly entitled to your opinion Wendog....and you are expressing your opinion in a calm way which does not make me picture you with veins popping out of your head .... lol

I still have to disagree with you. Elliott was very good in the back end of last year in particular. He was one of our best on ground on a number of occasions and his runs and tackles at times were big momentum builders.
I think some on here have a cognitive bias which causes them to only remember Elliott’s worst, while only remembering the best things about our other backrowers.
But I respect your opinion and your right to see things differently :grinning:
 
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CaptainJackson said:
His 7.something average last season was above average for him.

As I said I'm going to start an adam dudiot performance thread for this season. His stats and his high/low lights will be pointed out then.
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you’re just changing your argument a little more each post. You do that!
 
utility half said:
you’re just changing your argument a little more each post. You do that!
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Just go through our match day threads on TK, more often than not there's a "fucking adam idiot " comment from a number of posters
 
CaptainJackson said:
Just go through our match day threads on TK, more often than not there's a "fucking adam idiot " comment from a number of posters
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Because of cognitive bias which causes them to be hyper critical of Elliott’s faults while overlooking others. Sorry, dude....but I’m not exactly going to consider kennel commentary as compelling evidence.
 
wendog33 said:
Utility I was trying to be even handed by saying that Adam's mistakes are noticable on the field. For some reason his fumbles get noticed where others aren't as much.
Just my opinion but I reckon he could run for 200m a game and it wouldn't bring much in the way of results towards winning a game or a try scoring linebreak.
I hope he has a purple patch this year in the same way a few other "steady" backrowers have for us in the past.
He is in the Gillies, Morrin, Cassillis, Coveney, Moffett style of player. Did their job but weren't game breakers. We could afford that back in those days cos we had elite spine players.
I wouldn't knock the guy but IMO he is ineffectual unless he plays to the utmost of his ability this year and I wouldn't be re-signing him unless he does because we have some potential talent coming through.
He is below the 2ndrowers and locks we already have on the books.
Just my opinion atm based on what he has shown us so far, as I don't want to lose any of them over him atm on potential.
Wish him all the best for the season.
There'll always be good and bad posters on TK AND scapegoats. Just the way it is.
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The facts don't support the claim that "He is below the 2nd rowers and locks we already have on the books".
To whit, his run metres per game are better than CHN, RFM and Jackson.
His tackle efficiency is better that CHN and not that far short of Jackson and RFM.
His missed tackles are less than CHN, Napa and Jackson.
His error rate is less than DWZ's and it doesn't put him in the NRL top 50.
He concedes less penalties than Tolman and JMK and again he isn't in the NRL top 50.
I'm not sure by what combined measures he is below the others, because whatever it is the NRL doesn't use it.

I would also add that not everyone in the team can be a game winner, the Salary Cap sees to that.

Go Dogs
 
Elliott's problem is that he is average at everything apart from line engagements which are high and making ineffective tackles which he is in the top 10 for the entire NRL.

He is a poor man's Jackson and doesn't bring a point of difference. JJ, Tolman and Elliott are all in the same mould relying on work rate and effort plays and you can only have so many of these players.

Stats on errors and penalties are pretty much irrelevant unless you have the fine details. From watching him his errors tend to be momentum killers or give momentum to the opposition.
 
utility half said:
Because of cognitive bias which causes them to be hyper critical of Elliott’s faults while overlooking others. Sorry, dude....but I’m not exactly going to consider kennel commentary as compelling evidence.
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Is it A "cognitive bias" or B "expectation bias" or C "confirmation bias"? Are they expecting and therefore only looking for things that confirm their predetermined opinion? Or are they simply interpreting things in a way that confirms their bias? Or are they selectively remembering only those things that support their bias? Whilst ignoring anything that doesn't?

My choice is option D, all of the above.

Go Dogs
 
TwinTurbo said:
Is it A "cognitive bias" or B "expectation bias" or C "confirmation bias"? Are they expecting and therefore only looking for things that confirm their predetermined opinion? Or are they simply interpreting things in a way that confirms their bias? Or are they selectively remembering only those things that support their bias? Whilst ignoring anything that doesn't?

My choice is option D, all of the above.

Go Dogs
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Yeah, I tend to agree...a little of all three.
 
CaptainJackson said:
Why would i support a player if for some irrational reason of the coaches hes keeping more talented players out of the team
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You must know more than Pay and Hasler. You can’t have a whole team of marquee players unless you’re the roosters
 
TwinTurbo said:
The facts don't support the claim that "He is below the 2nd rowers and locks we already have on the books".
To whit, his run metres per game are better than CHN, RFM and Jackson.
His tackle efficiency is better that CHN and not that far short of Jackson and RFM.
His missed tackles are less than CHN, Napa and Jackson.
His error rate is less than DWZ's and it doesn't put him in the NRL top 50.
He concedes less penalties than Tolman and JMK and again he isn't in the NRL top 50.
I'm not sure by what combined measures he is below the others, because whatever it is the NRL doesn't use it.

I would also add that not everyone in the team can be a game winner, the Salary Cap sees to that.

Go Dogs
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Yes well there you go. It's all a personal opinion and stats can lie as to a MVP.

I would not keep Elliott over RFM, JJ, CHN and I think you can add Stimson to that list soon as well.

AND I don't think you'll find many fg coaches or Bulldogs fans who would rather lose them to keep Adam either...just my opinion and thats all you can do as a fan.
 
I really don't get how so many people see so many negatives in Elliott that apparently outweigh the positives he brings. Why is he our scapegoat when there are so many other problems? In our current team Elliott is good enough to be in the 13 and at worst (maybe Stimson really does impress) he's a great player to have coming off the bench. I'm happy with all the attributes and traits he brings to the team when you disregard talent (he's also not as bad as people say). Also just regarding stats the eye test is always a better measure as long as you know what you're looking for (Woods had great stats).
 
wendog33 said:
Yes well there you go. It's all a personal opinion and stats can lie as to a MVP.

I would not keep Elliott over RFM, JJ, CHN and I think you can add Stimson to that list soon as well.

AND I don't think you'll find many fg coaches or Bulldogs fans who would rather lose them to keep Adam either...just my opinion and thats all you can do as a fan.
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I would keep all of them but if I had to get rid of someone out of that bunch it'd be RFM no contest. Stimson needs to show me something before I put him over Elliott and I don't think the difference between Elliott and CHN is as big as you say/think. Obviously keep Jackson over him. We have bigger issues than our second row and lock positions (it's literally our strength and best part of our team).
 
bradyk said:
I really don't get how so many people see so many negatives in Elliott that apparently outweigh the positives he brings. Why is he our scapegoat when there are so many other problems? In our current team Elliott is good enough to be in the 13 and at worst (maybe Stimson really does impress) he's a great player to have coming off the bench. I'm happy with all the attributes and traits he brings to the team when you disregard talent (he's also not as bad as people say). Also just regarding stats the eye test is always a better measure as long as you know what you're looking for (Woods had great stats).
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How is he a scapegoat in this instance? It’s just a difference of opinion on a player Its a thread about Elliott so all the other issues aren’t going to get bought up.
 
Spoonman84 said:
How is he a scapegoat in this instance? It’s just a difference of opinion on a player Its a thread about Elliott so all the other issues aren’t going to get bought up.
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He is brought up all the time literally everywhere. He's been made out to be a meme. If we lose it's Elliott's fault.
 
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