Religious Discussion Thread

[Kelpie03]

You bastards are all pretty worked up about arguments that will run in circles.



Side (1) churches are corrupt and that's proven by their actions.

Side (2) you can't judge the majority by the actions of the minority.

Side (1) when the minority we're judging them by are leaders within the church we should be judging them harshly.

Side (2) but others do good things that we should judge the organisation on.



Here's my take on things. The most outspoken critic here was once a follower of the church, his point is very valid and his response to seeing the issues that exist was to walk away and seemingly try to help others to at least not ignore the issues.

On.the opposite side are people with unshakable faith in God and through that faith, in religious organisations.

My take is that the ideals that are supposed to be represented by God and religion should be upheld by the leaders of the church, if they're not upholding the ideals, then I think parishioners need to be at the forefront of holding them to account, not trying to defend the organisation that isn't cutting out the cancer within.

Firstly the Catholic Church is the first institution to deal with child molesting, you might say it should never have happened, on that issue you are 100+% correct, not to excuse what happened, to explain what I'm sure happened, we should study what my Church and all Christian Churches to some extent believe and preach
(1) The churches's pholophsy is for its followers and perhaps (all mnkind) to repent and change their sinfull ways, this applies to all its faithfull and also its clergy
(2) Paedophiles including paedophile Priests all find a prey, and by moving them to another parish, the heirichy belieeved that they no longer had an oppurtunity to offend, it was done with the intension of stopping their evil acts not to give them another oppurtunity to do so.
(3) As to why their superiors did not report them its most probably because, the confessional is sealed, priests throught history have been put to death ifor refusing to disclose what was told to them in confession. All western societies respect the seal of the confessional just like they do with Lawyer/ criminal confidentiality (exept in Victoria of course).. AS for that notorious Paedophile Priest Rigdale in Victoria , I saw him interviewed and he said that he did not confess molesting boys, (which i found amazing coming from a Priest of all people),
I've discussed this matter with an experienced priest at length, he told me that prior to the permissiveness get out of hand the % of ofending priests was less than 2%. After the permissive society became rampant, the % grew to 4-5%. the great majority of which was as a result of priests breaking their vows by faving sex with women, (which is sinfull but not illegial) this dosen't supprise me because i've seen women try to seduce Priests.
As for paedophile priests molesting boys, one Priest told me that he visits schools and on afew occassions 10 and younger year old kids would run past him an try to punch him in the balls.
We all know that for some years now very young kids are to watch porn with their parients or perhaps even themselves, hence wanting to explore the jucy stuff, its also been reportered that some girls start to have sex at 10.
The logo sex sells greed is good has led to the permissive society we have now. and no one in their right mind can blame the Church for it.

 

[Wahesh]

The barrel, ie the culture of the catholic church hierarchy is rotten, and it is that rot that allows the corruption and the lies and the greed to permeate throughout the institution. The church's official actions, as outlined many, many, times and their responses to the royal commission should be enough to convince anyone something is very wrong with their values.

Despite the selfless actions of many involved in the church, it is the official reactions that people see and those reactions are clearly focused on maintaining the wealth and assets, influence and power of the church rather than the needs of its victims. Surely you can see that?

As I've said many times, yes, there are a few rotten eggs in the basket, but that doesn't mean the minority ruin it for the majority.

As for the victims needs, whatever those needs are, they should be made irrespective of what the Church owns. IE, if I'm held a company is held accountable for fraud, their penalty should not come down to what the own, it should be done irrespective of that.

 

[Wahesh]

Which Australian media is Jewish run?

Fox. Murdoch owns it, Jews run it.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Fox. Murdoch owns it, Jews run it.

Fox News isn't in Australia. If you mean Sky News owned by Murdoch? Then there's a few issues:

1) Murdoch isn't Jewish. He actually got in trouble for posting anti-Semitic stuff

2) Sky News Australia is run by Paul Whittaker who also isn't Jewish

If you mean Foxtel, that's run by Patrick Delaney. He's also not Jewish.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Fox News isn't in Australia. If you mean Sky News owned by Murdoch? Then there's a few issues:

1) Murdoch isn't Jewish. He actually got in trouble for posting anti-Semitic stuff

2) Sky News Australia is run by Paul Whittaker who also isn't Jewish

If you mean Foxtel, that's run by Patrick Delaney. He's also not Jewish.

But his mate said Jews run it LOL

 

[Hacky McAxe]

But his mate said Jews run it LOL

The irony is that Rupert Murdoch is Roman Catholic.

 

[south of heaven]

Jewish run.

 

[CaptainJackson]

The irony is that Rupert Murdoch is Roman Catholic.

And a massive white supremacist

 

[Bazildog]

And a massive white supremacist

100% incorrect and FAKE NEWS..I will have you know that my newsagent is half Greek and my paperboy has recently moved here from Haberfield so I suspect he is part Italian. Both examples of equal opportunity employment and it highlights your scurrilous left wing behavior..

 

[CaptainJackson]

100% incorrect and FAKE NEWS..I will have you know that my newsagent is half Greek and my paperboy has recently moved here from Haberfield so I suspect he is part Italian. Both examples of equal opportunity employment and it highlights your scurrilous left wing behavior..

Bootlicking woofta!

 

[Tuffers]

@south of heaven

 

[KambahOne]

Why scrole back to read your hate lies, when in your first post above you state that you never said that all the churches and all their followers are evil and corrupt .
Then on your bottom postyou sayquote" The barrel, ie the culture of the Catholic Church heirarchy is rotten".
Poor fellow can't you see your own hipocrocy.
Harbouring hate is bad for your state of mind and your health to, and you are so rotten with it that I can only feel sorry for you.

I understand your really stupid, but even you should know the difference between the church hierarchy and church parishioners.

 

[KambahOne]

And a massive white supremacist

Rupert Murdoch is the father of fake news, he invented it, built and empire on it and sold it as as strategy for other outlets to follow to make money off the morons who swallow it.

 

[Alan79]

Firstly the Catholic Church is the first institution to deal with child molesting, you might say it should never have happened, on that issue you are 100+% correct, not to excuse what happened, to explain what I'm sure happened, we should study what my Church and all Christian Churches to some extent believe and preach
(1) The churches's pholophsy is for its followers and perhaps (all mnkind) to repent and change their sinfull ways, this applies to all its faithfull and also its clergy
(2) Paedophiles including paedophile Priests all find a prey, and by moving them to another parish, the heirichy belieeved that they no longer had an oppurtunity to offend, it was done with the intension of stopping their evil acts not to give them another oppurtunity to do so.
(3) As to why their superiors did not report them its most probably because, the confessional is sealed, priests throught history have been put to death ifor refusing to disclose what was told to them in confession. All western societies respect the seal of the confessional just like they do with Lawyer/ criminal confidentiality (exept in Victoria of course).. AS for that notorious Paedophile Priest Rigdale in Victoria , I saw him interviewed and he said that he did not confess molesting boys, (which i found amazing coming from a Priest of all people),
I've discussed this matter with an experienced priest at length, he told me that prior to the permissiveness get out of hand the % of ofending priests was less than 2%. After the permissive society became rampant, the % grew to 4-5%. the great majority of which was as a result of priests breaking their vows by faving sex with women, (which is sinfull but not illegial) this dosen't supprise me because i've seen women try to seduce Priests.
As for paedophile priests molesting boys, one Priest told me that he visits schools and on afew occassions 10 and younger year old kids would run past him an try to punch him in the balls.
We all know that for some years now very young kids are to watch porn with their parients or perhaps even themselves, hence wanting to explore the jucy stuff, its also been reportered that some girls start to have sex at 10.
The logo sex sells greed is good has led to the permissive society we have now. and no one in their right mind can blame the Church for it.

The closing stages of that post makes it sound a lot like you are blaming society for the wrongdoings of priests. Even if society has lost its way in many regards, it's really fucked up if you are insinuating that children are the initiators of abuse dude.

My main point in posting in here was that regardless of what the clergy do, it should be parishioners that are the quickest to call for an accounting and to cut out the cancer from the clergy. I just don't see that being the case. As long as parishioners are willing to explain away this type of shit I think the church will cop flak from objective people.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

The closing stages of that post makes it sound a lot like you are blaming society for the wrongdoings of priests. Even if society has lost its way in many regards, it's really fucked up if you are insinuating that children are the initiators of abuse dude.

My main point in posting in here was that regardless of what the clergy do, it should be parishioners that are the quickest to call for an accounting and to cut out the cancer from the clergy. I just don't see that being the case. As long as parishioners are willing to explain away this type of shit I think the church will cop flak from objective people.

As a biblical scholar and theist, a basic reading of the bible tells me that everyone in any religious organisation should be held accountable. In fact the information in the NT relating to the first century church shows that it was much less vertical than the large churches are today, partly for this exact reason. "Humans are human", and all that comes with that, is a basic fundamental message of the Bible.

This leaves the question, why AREN'T members of churches leading the way in terms of holding people accountable when they violate others, particularly those most vulnerable? To me the simple answer is doctrine. There are plenty of good people who do a lot of good stuff and have good experiences in their religion. But it doesn't matter how good a person is, you feed them a certain doctrine and they will defend things that they shouldn't. To take a secular example of this phenomenon, look at the antivaxxer scene; most people who are against vaccinations are more or less good people, they will help out others, they don't violate others, but they defend ideas and actions (or non-actions) that cause genuine harm. They are good people who've become indoctrinated with a poor concept.

 

[Tuffers]

in this thread alone.

 

[wendog33]

 

[Kelpie03]

The irony is that Rupert Murdoch is Roman Catholic.

I'm suppried, I'd suspect that he is not well liked within the Church, when you break away from the Catholic faith, you can't be called Catholic any more, because been Catholic involves practicing, like going to Church occassionally. Murdochs life stile tells me that he is further from the Catholic principles than many athiests.
One thing that I would like to see the Church do more of is excumunications The reply to that suggestion was everyone should have a chance to repent/reform, because Jesus himself said so.

 

[Bob dog]

Ah the good old save the world woman's Christian group, plenty of hypocrites in that lot but at least some are genuine.

 

[Wahesh]

Fox News isn't in Australia. If you mean Sky News owned by Murdoch? Then there's a few issues:

1) Murdoch isn't Jewish. He actually got in trouble for posting anti-Semitic stuff

2) Sky News Australia is run by Paul Whittaker who also isn't Jewish

If you mean Foxtel, that's run by Patrick Delaney. He's also not Jewish.

No mate, I mean Fox. Murdoch owns Fox, but Jews runs it.