BULLDOGS VS REBUILD OF TIGERS, KNIGHTS & TITANS

[Mike Z]

Lets be honest and only use FACTS with our EMOTIONS aside.

The Tigers have been in rebuild & have had 3 or 4 coaches in that time. Today they have a much stronger team then the Bulldogs of paper, but they still struggling to be consistent.

The KNIGHTS, Have been in the player market for last 6 years, Bennett, Brown and Now O'Brien, they are sitting 3rd Last just above Brisbane and The Bulldogs on the LIVE ladder.

THEY have Frizell, Klemmer, Pearce, Ponga, Watson, Mann, Braily - just to name a few. FAILED BIG TIME.

TITANS: New Coach, Heavy in the player market last 5 years. This year alone they have gone all in.. they sit just above the knights "4th Last"

I can name a few other teams, now i am not making excuses. I AM NOT Happy with our Attack and only 1 win.

But this is the True 1ST Year of the Rebuild. Last 3 years have been just cleaning the Salary cap crisis.

Now this year new coach, with Cotric, Allen & Flano as the 3 main recruits this year.
Allen injured and Flano Dropped.
Cant exactly say the bulldogs have a stronger team then last year considering who we lost.

Next year is year 2:
Verified recruits: Burton, JAC, Naden.
With no Injuries the Backline looks on paper a very good back line.

If we can add say a Johnson to support Burton then we might have a top 4 backlinw.

Add 1 decent front row, and 1 decent edge forward.
That will be very competitive.
Add 1 top line hooker and the rebuild becomes a highrise.

We need to be patient. We need to look forward to the next year or 2
And i am sure we will be in the top 4 and playing finals for the next 10 years.

I love you all my Blue & White Blood Brothers...

MIKE Z
13/06/2021

 

[bradyk]

Knights decimated with injuries this year, I think at full strength they're a top 8 side (possibly top 6) but that's the problem when you're a rebuild club (or a club that's rebuilt) you're most likely aren't going to have any depth.

There is still a chance we can be a team in and around the eight next year but it's only going to happen if we get best case scenario in recruitment and if history is to go off we don't get best case scenario (which has changed plenty of times now since last November).

 

[wendog33]

That's why it's going to take 2-4 years to build sufficient x factor and juniors to put a consistently successful team on the park.

 

[Howie B]

The problem I see is that players are regressing when they come to us whilst players that leave get better most of the time. Until we fix that it won’t matter who we recruit.

Look at the blokes who have left recently. Smith is a given with the storm but I am watching that game and even Montoya has improved. Morgan Harper playing well at Manly, the Morris boys played a heap better when they left. Yes they have better players around them but their individual performances are still much better than what they produced with us.

I think the problem lies deeper than recruitment and retention. There is something wrong with the training and systems in place. Just my opinion though and hopefully we can turn it around.

 

[bradyk]

The problem I see is that players are regressing when they come to us whilst players that leave get better most of the time. Until we fix that it won’t matter who we recruit.

Look at the blokes who have left recently. Smith is a given with the storm but I am watching that game and even Montoya has improved. Morgan Harper playing well at Manly, the Morris boys played a heap better when they left. Yes they have better players around them but their individual performances are still much better than what they produced with us.

I think the problem lies deeper than recruitment and retention. There is something wrong with the training and systems in place. Just my opinion though and hopefully we can turn it around.

We're playing with a losing mentality, we're tarnished from previous years. I think confidence in the team and individual performance is going to make players play/look better. It makes our roster look like the worst in the NRL on paper. Montoya and Harper (didn't really get a chance, probably deserved one with what was in front of him) are the only 2 players we should of gotten rid of at the time (Morris boys probably salary cap reasons).

 

[wendog33]

The problem I see is that players are regressing when they come to us whilst players that leave get better most of the time. Until we fix that it won’t matter who we recruit.

Look at the blokes who have left recently. Smith is a given with the storm but I am watching that game and even Montoya has improved. Morgan Harper playing well at Manly, the Morris boys played a heap better when they left. Yes they have better players around them but their individual performances are still much better than what they produced with us.

I think the problem lies deeper than recruitment and retention. There is something wrong with the training and systems in place. Just my opinion though and hopefully we can turn it around.

That's the crux of my concerns as well.

We are always blaming halves, forwards, backs, coach, fitness, anything really.

Excuses.

As an example, forwards like Napa, Waddle and Stimson etc have no right to blame the spine for 50m gains, 5m pcm, 5 missed tackles and 3 dropped balls for 60 mins of football.

Backs have no right in blaming forwards bc they drop the ball or can't draw and pass when a break is made or that they can't get on the outside of the opposition and run around them.

Halves can't blame forwards when they don't stand back far enough on last tackle to get a kick away or roll it in and get a line drop out or kick it over the dead ball line or create a hole.

There is no valid excuse for an individual not achieving set kpi's in a game plan unless they are injured.

I too think there is an inherent loser/excuse culture within our playing group.

There def was with the recent past coach in Pay IMO and Barrett seems to be on egg shells with decisions as well. Although lately he seems to be a bit more proactive in doing something about it.

Ok we dont have x factor but when fans actually begin to wonder if their reserve grade team could beat their first grade, or give them a good run for they money, then there's time to start asking questions about club culture in the first team.

 

[GrogDog]

Emotion aside?

No way am I prepared to accept that this is the first year of the rebuild. Why does the SC part not get included? If this is year 1 then it's easier to promote a positive outcome.

Des, Dib and Rae destroyed the place and it was a rebuild from that next year on, we are in year 3, on our second Coach.

It can easily be argued that the playing group has gone backwards since last year even if your only argument is the effort shown with the jersey on.

Signing JAC, Burton, Cotric are massive plus's but I do believe the results of this year has lost us all momentum in the signing market. We should have atleast 3 to 4 other signings in place for 2022 by now. Definitely should have the #9 spot filled moving forward.

I'm concerned about the staff we have in place who decide who is a good player and not. Looking at teams across the game I see a massive amount of ex-dogs players who are regular FG players seeing varying levels of success. I look at our team and see players who would not make any of the teams.

I'm concerned and over the whole "patience" line and I see the reach out to Gould as an admition of my concerns.

 

[bradyk]

Emotion aside?

No way am I prepared to accept that this is the first year of the rebuild. Why does the SC part not get included? If this is year 1 then it's easier to promote a positive outcome.

Des, Dib and Rae destroyed the place and it was a rebuild from that next year on, we are in year 3, on our second Coach.

It can easily be argued that the playing group has gone backwards since last year even if your only argument is the effort shown with the jersey on.

Signing JAC, Burton, Cotric are massive plus's but I do believe the results of this year has lost us all momentum in the signing market. We should have atleast 3 to 4 other signings in place for 2022 by now. Definitely should have the #9 spot filled moving forward.

I'm concerned about the staff we have in place who decide who is a good player and not. Looking at teams across the game I see a massive amount of ex-dogs players who are regular FG players seeing varying levels of success. I look at our team and see players who would not make any of the teams.

I'm concerned and over the whole "patience" line and I see the reach out to Gould as an admition of my concerns.

This is first year of proper recruitment (drip fed a couple of signings like DWZ) but 2018, 19 and 20 were clean out years (being salary cap compliant) pretty much with little to no recruitment (some of the recruitment we did do we would be been better of not signing anyone). So the rebuild technically started in 2018 (when we started losing players during the season). I don't think many clubs were in the same situation as us in regards to their rebuild (being dramatically over the salary cap).

 

[Cappuccino]

Emotion aside?

CAPS LOCK

 

[Howie B]

That's the crux of my concerns as well.

We are always blaming halves, forwards, backs, coach, fitness, anything really.

Excuses.

As an example, forwards like Napa, Waddle and Stimson etc have no right to blame the spine for 50m gains, 5m pcm, 5 missed tackles and 3 dropped balls for 60 mins of football.

Backs have no right in blaming forwards bc they drop the ball or can't draw and pass when a break is made or that they can't get on the outside of the opposition and run around them.

Halves can't blame forwards when they don't stand back far enough on last tackle to get a kick away or roll it in and get a line drop out or kick it over the dead ball line or create a hole.

There is no valid excuse for an individual not achieving set kpi's in a game plan unless they are injured.

I too think there is an inherent loser/excuse culture within our playing group.

There def was with the recent past coach in Pay IMO and Barrett seems to be on egg shells with decisions as well. Although lately he seems to be a bit more proactive in doing something about it.

Ok we dont have x factor but when fans actually begin to wonder if their reserve grade team could beat their first grade, or give them a good run for they money, then there's time to start asking questions about club culture in the first team.

Spot on. I struggle to name a player who has actually improved since they joined us. We are obviously not producing an environment that is allowing that to happen.

I am not writing Baz off and I was excited when we signed him. But in hindsight maybe we needed a hard nose coach who wouldn’t cuddle the players.

Easier said than done though. Not many of those coaches are out there and they would be hesitant to take on our roster

 

[ddt192]

On paper Knights have a gun side. Great mix of experience n youth. Injury toll is massive for them this year.

 

[alchemist]

since we are talking honestly, rebuilds are only necessary IF a team has seriously f*+#ed up their salary cap, their recruitment, their retention, their junior development, their coaching

for example, I have been watching the Storm this year to see if there would be a drop off from last year's GF and a decade of dominance and the expected loss of legends of the club (eg. Inglis, Slater, Cronk, C. Smith etc.) and what appeared to be the likely loss of Bellamy to Queensland... but they are still astute in the player market, have kept Bellamy from what I understand for another year, get the most out of their players and are again in contention... a winning club

I am petrified that the qualities that made us a winning club, too, have now been lost and we will be in a perpetual state of rebuild from now on

 

[jpneves]

since we are talking honestly, rebuilds are only necessary IF a team has seriously f*+#ed up their salary cap, their recruitment, their retention, their junior development, their coaching

for example, I have been watching the Storm this year to see if there would be a drop off from last year's GF and a decade of dominance and the expected loss of legends of the club (eg. Inglis, Slater, Cronk, C. Smith etc.) and what appeared to be the likely loss of Bellamy to Queensland... but they are still astute in the player market, have kept Bellamy from what I understand for another year, get the most out of their players and are again in contention... a winning club

I am petrified that the qualities that made us a winning club, too, have now been lost and we will be in a perpetual state of rebuild from now on

Re the Storm and to an extent the Broncos of the 90’s early 2000’s
When these clubs started they based things on the Bulldogs teams of the 80’s strong front house and then a culture inside.
Anderson and Ribot took the Broncos and Bulldogs blueprint to Melbourne and look at them now? If you had said to someone with league knowledge ‘When Storm lose Smith, Cronk,Slater and co they will still be a dominant force in the comp’ They would have given you a funny look

They have replaced all of the greats through culture, great recruitment, management etc (players go there to be winners muck like players came to Canterbury or would stay at the dogs or at Brisbane and play rep football etc

Parra have never recovered from the 80’s unlike us

I hoped with Anderson back we would set the ball rolling again of a culture growing.
Alas he has moved on. I just hope we persist with development and get out of this hole soon

I really think the club needs a Frank Ponesi or a Shane Richardson type administrator to really set the ball rolling back to a new ‘dogs era’

 

[Riggs80]

This is first year of proper recruitment (drip fed a couple of signings like DWZ) but 2018, 19 and 20 were clean out years (being salary cap compliant) pretty much with little to no recruitment (some of the recruitment we did do we would be been better of not signing anyone). So the rebuild technically started in 2018 (when we started losing players during the season). I don't think many clubs were in the same situation as us in regards to their rebuild (being dramatically over the salary cap).

Yes but same leniency should then be given to the other clubs that the OP compared
knights had salary cap issues and could only put in youngsters for a couple of years etc
Cleary fucked the tigers cap
Titans only last year started to clear deadwood and go hunting for players

 

[bulldogsmyte]

That's the crux of my concerns as well.

We are always blaming halves, forwards, backs, coach, fitness, anything really.

Excuses.

As an example, forwards like Napa, Waddle and Stimson etc have no right to blame the spine for 50m gains, 5m pcm, 5 missed tackles and 3 dropped balls for 60 mins of football.

Backs have no right in blaming forwards bc they drop the ball or can't draw and pass when a break is made or that they can't get on the outside of the opposition and run around them.

Halves can't blame forwards when they don't stand back far enough on last tackle to get a kick away or roll it in and get a line drop out or kick it over the dead ball line or create a hole.

There is no valid excuse for an individual not achieving set kpi's in a game plan unless they are injured.

I too think there is an inherent loser/excuse culture within our playing group.

There def was with the recent past coach in Pay IMO and Barrett seems to be on egg shells with decisions as well. Although lately he seems to be a bit more proactive in doing something about it.

Ok we dont have x factor but when fans actually begin to wonder if their reserve grade team could beat their first grade, or give them a good run for they money, then there's time to start asking questions about club culture in the first team.

You hit the nail on the head. The low standards set by the previous admin/coaches since around 2015 have resulted in an entire squad that lacks the fundamentals of being a league player - fitness, skill, awareness, speed, footy smarts etc. When the overwhelming majority of the players are crap the culture follows the same path.
On the few occasions when our forwards have done their part and put us in the red zone our halves such as Flanno have consistently stuffed it up. If our entire squad was on the market now only Thompson would be in demand by a top 8 club. I doubt any of our established "top 17" players at the start of the year would be paid by any other club at the same salary they are on here. All of them are way overpaid.
A team is only as strong as it's weakest link and so far our entire team bar 1 or 2 are the weakest link.
The club admin, coaches and support staff lack the fundamentals as well which explains the crappy recruitment, retention and systems in place. I'm hoping TB has got the skills to lead us out of this mess although he has to accept the responsibility of his dud recruitment so far as none of his signings except Ava have delivered. Furner has to be held accountable as well.

 

[mikey]

Lets be honest and only use FACTS with our EMOTIONS aside.

The Tigers have been in rebuild & have had 3 or 4 coaches in that time. Today they have a much stronger team then the Bulldogs of paper, but they still struggling to be consistent.

The KNIGHTS, Have been in the player market for last 6 years, Bennett, Brown and Now O'Brien, they are sitting 3rd Last just above Brisbane and The Bulldogs on the LIVE ladder.

THEY have Frizell, Klemmer, Pearce, Ponga, Watson, Mann, Braily - just to name a few. FAILED BIG TIME.

TITANS: New Coach, Heavy in the player market last 5 years. This year alone they have gone all in.. they sit just above the knights "4th Last"

I can name a few other teams, now i am not making excuses. I AM NOT Happy with our Attack and only 1 win.

But this is the True 1ST Year of the Rebuild. Last 3 years have been just cleaning the Salary cap crisis.

Now this year new coach, with Cotric, Allen & Flano as the 3 main recruits this year.
Allen injured and Flano Dropped.
Cant exactly say the bulldogs have a stronger team then last year considering who we lost.

Next year is year 2:
Verified recruits: Burton, JAC, Naden.
With no Injuries the Backline looks on paper a very good back line.

If we can add say a Johnson to support Burton then we might have a top 4 backlinw.

Add 1 decent front row, and 1 decent edge forward.
That will be very competitive.
Add 1 top line hooker and the rebuild becomes a highrise.

We need to be patient. We need to look forward to the next year or 2
And i am sure we will be in the top 4 and playing finals for the next 10 years.

I love you all my Blue & White Blood Brothers...

MIKE Z
13/06/2021

Well put.plenty of other sides with good rosters are struggling,burton will be massive for us next year.