Bulldogs reveal who’s going in massive roster clean out

[bradyk]

We only have 2 hookers at the club next year. Can I smell cheese?

BBO and Topine can play there if desperate.

 

[wendog33]

What makes you think these discarded players had more ability to offer ?
I think they all reached they’re ceiling cap and in some cases these players had 2-3 coaches to harness and improve their abilities and didn’t.

Barrett is a rookie coach who has made mistakes , no doubt but to say he failed to get the best out of the players when the players he’s got have played to their potential is not his fault and the fact that these players have no clubs chasing them indicates the quality of some of these players

Basing my opinion on falling effort and form or no improvement or development or continually selecting failing players in the team:
Napa
Hoppa
Waddle
Stimpy
Avo
Wakeham
Katoa
Flanaghan
Meaney
Allen
Elliott
JMK
Schoup

Average players true but new coach offered absolutely nothing to the development or improvement of individual players or the team roster.

That was his first priority and it was a fail in 2020.

You don't have to agree. My opinion. Others are free to agree or disagree as they saw it this year.

 

[wendog33]

Can't speak about Atoni, but there is no doubt Ogden was pushed, frequently and hard. He had achievable KPI's and milestones that he never ever managed to reach. He just didn't seem to have the drive, despite warning after warning, counselling, countless one on one training and fitness sessions and being dropped numerous times. He had more than enough chances, more than enough help and he still failed.

Always a Bulldog

Yet JK says Ogden is still in the mix for retention?

Do you reckon Atoni was pushed as hard?

 

[LordSidious66]

I asked John Khoury about Ogden this was his response

Hi Jackson we are still working through a few tweaks. Decision on Ofahiki Ogden is still in progress

How about Crichton?

 

[Jackson_1994]

How about Crichton?

I didn't ask about Crichton

 

[D- voice]

Couldn't agree more. We've neglected our juniors for ages so its the reason we don't have 5x Paul Alamoti's in our Top 30. People on here expecting every player to be Addo Carr quality.

Probably as much a cost based decision as anything else. Can't have 12 high priced outside backs. When cotric and Jac are likely on pretty good coin we had to pay a couple of budget wingers as back ups.

Boys, getting rid of 12 none contracted players is the easy part, the difficult one is clearing the overpaid contracted players like Stinkson Elliott Flanagan Allen Cotric and the lesser priced Wakeham and Waddell.
The rest of the out of contract player's fate will depend on how we manage the above contracts, I am expecting surprises good ones at that !
Gus will try and do what ever it takes to balance the team / squad and if possible move contracted players on.
I have an idea for Gus...If he is adamant there is a player that is needed to improve the team and can't be done differently, he should contemplate what we did in 2002 and that is ask the highly paid players to take a minor pay cut for the bettering of the team, it's complicated but can be done !!!

 

[Sloth]

What happened with Watson Heleta? Heard so many great things about him on here

I know it’s because we have an abundance of backs that’s why we let him go but that one I was quite surprised about

 

[TwinTurbo]

Yet JK says Ogden is still in the mix for retention?

Personally, I believe Ogden has a big upside, maybe that might be enough to offer him a minimum or T&T.

Do you reckon Atoni was pushed as hard?

Physically yes, although he didn't need it as much as Ogden, he passes his KPI's and hits milestones. Can't say about his mental approach, he's a really nice guy, maybe not enough mongrel. As a comparison, off the field JWH is also a really great guy with a good sense of humour, but when he steps over the white line Mr Hyde takes over. Atoni just seems "nice" all the time, only my opinion of course.


Always a Bulldog

 

[wendog33]

Personally, I believe Ogden has a big upside, maybe that might be enough to offer him a minimum or T&T.

Physically yes, although he didn't need it as much as Ogden, he passes his KPI's and hits milestones. Can't say about his mental approach, he's a really nice guy, maybe not enough mongrel. As a comparison, off the field JWH is also a really great guy with a good sense of humour, but when he steps over the white line Mr Hyde takes over. Atoni just seems "nice" all the time, only my opinion of course.


Always a Bulldog

Yeah agree. Be really interesting to see what Robinson can get out of him.

 

[speedy2460]

Still didn't have them playing to even 70% of their ability, nor get selections, bench rotations, mount any sort of competitive game plan or cohension or develop any skills or confidence in any player.

That's a coaches job.

He failed as much as the players did this year...and is as much to blame as them, at least.

Totally wrong on all levels. 70% of their ability is not enough to win games. I dont even know how you arrived at 70%.
Barrett was severely handicapped by the personnel he had. He had little option but to select the players he did select.
How can you have competitive game plans when you dont have the personnel to carry them out?

 

[wendog33]

Totally wrong on all levels. 70% of their ability is not enough to win games. I dont even know how you arrived at 70%.
Barrett was severely handicapped by the personnel he had. He had little option but to select the players he did select.
How can you have competitive game plans when you dont have the personnel to carry them out?

I think I said he couldn't even get 70% out of them. A coach needs to get every bit of talent out of them no matter how average they are. They've all either played better elsewhere or haven't improved under Baz and same story as with Pay, with some even worse than with Pay.

There's no way you can say that Barrett has got each player playing to their best, either with effort or skill.

You are just using excuses to explain a very poor 2021. The coach is as much to blame for not being on point, as this bunch of players have been.

No cog in the wheel can say they've done their best for the Bulldogs, been successful, or improved as the season went on...and the wheels well and truly fell off.

You don't just win 2 games out of 24 and have the worst ever points for and against and then say it's all the players fault, but the coach did well (or even ok). All as bad performing as each other.

 

[2ndphase]

We only have 2 hookers at the club next year. Can I smell cheese?

Probably,Go have a shower!

 

[doggieaaron]

Hopefully player number 13 any day now

 

[Howie B]

Gus on Twitter dating Crichton and Ogden haven’t been offered deals

 

[gibbo2]

Montoya 2.0. I don't want anyone named Katoa to ever play for us again due to PTSD

Montoya is better than him. He actually looked half decent at times for the Warriors this year.

 

[GrogDog]

I think I said he couldn't even get 70% out of them. A coach needs to get every bit of talent out of them no matter how average they are. They've all either played better elsewhere or haven't improved under Baz and same story as with Pay, with some even worse than with Pay.

There's no way you can say that Barrett has got each player playing to their best, either with effort or skill.

You are just using excuses to explain a very poor 2020. The coach is as much to blame for not being on point, as this bunch of players have been.

No cog in the wheel can say they've done their best for the Bulldogs, been successful, or improved as the season went on...and the wheels well and truly fell off.

You don't just win 2 games out of 24 and have the worst ever points for and against and then say it's all the players fault, but the coach did well (or even ok). All as bad performing as each other.

I agree with you. No doubt the worst team I've ever seen but in saying that there was atleast 4 winnable games there this year that went by the wayside. The only player I think that improved this year was Meaney and I credit that all to himself and the only player I would have kept out of the ones leaving.

I just can't see how after the season we've had that the team can get the blame and not the Coach. Your not a Coach if you can only get something out of awesome players and not get other's to realise or even hit above their abilities. Surely winning a GF requires players to do exactly that, reach above their own abilities?

Tbaz without doubt failed this year BUT he has next year with better player's to make amends for that. 8 weeks should be enough with a pre-season to show us if there's any hope in his Coaching. I'm not saying he has to win even 6 of those but there has to be a sign from playing, strategy, fitness and players attitudes to prove that he can. The team will need time to gel but the signs will need to be present. This year there was zero signs. If I had to give him a mark this year he would get 0/10 for Coaching.

 

[Bulldogsteve]

I agree with you. No doubt the worst team I've ever seen but in saying that there was atleast 4 winnable games there this year that went by the wayside. The only player I think that improved this year was Meaney and I credit that all to himself and the only player I would have kept out of the ones leaving.

I just can't see how after the season we've had that the team can get the blame and not the Coach. Your not a Coach if you can only get something out of awesome players and not get other's to realise or even hit above their abilities. Surely winning a GF requires players to do exactly that, reach above their own abilities?

Tbaz without doubt failed this year BUT he has next year with better player's to make amends for that. 8 weeks should be enough with a pre-season to show us if there's any hope in his Coaching. I'm not saying he has to win even 6 of those but there has to be a sign from playing, strategy, fitness and players attitudes to prove that he can. The team will need time to gel but the signs will need to be present. This year there was zero signs. If I had to give him a mark this year he would get 0/10 for Coaching.

Tbaz coaching this year really disappointed me. He coached the structure he wants but didnt coach to the teams strengths. He didnt adapt, we have no cleary.

 

[speedy2460]

Tbaz coaching this year really disappointed me. He coached the structure he wants but didnt coach to the teams strengths. He didnt adapt, we have no cleary.

Hard to coach to the teams strengths when there arn't any.

 

[GrogDog]

Tbaz coaching this year really disappointed me. He coached the structure he wants but didnt coach to the teams strengths. He didnt adapt, we have no cleary.

Me too, especially considering I wanted Hollbrook and watching the style he's trying over there. I had hope for Tbaz and jumped on that wagon, I think I just bought into the whole "it's Tbaz's attack at Penrith and Cleary is a myth" talk. Man was I naive! It was hard as the season progressed and seeing no sign's that the team was being coached. His selections and bench use was amateur and it was just as disappointing as the team's performances. He has a fukin long way to go before next season IMO.

 

[Bulldogsteve]

Me too, especially considering I wanted Hollbrook and watching the style he's trying over there. I had hope for Tbaz and jumped on that wagon, I think I just bought into the whole "it's Tbaz's attack at Penrith and Cleary is a myth" talk. Man was I naive! It was hard as the season progressed and seeing no sign's that the team was being coached. His selections and bench use was amateur and it was just as disappointing as the team's performances. He has a fukin long way to go before next season IMO.

agree grogdog, as a coach you all have a "style" that you want to play, but if you dont have players to play that way, then you have to change. Tbaz didnt do that.