Bill Nye Vs Ken Ham

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Dogandgunner

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Did anyone have a chance to check out this interesting debate? quite long but well worth a watch debating creationism vs evouloution. Im firmly on the evolution side of the debate as i dislike the argument that the creationism evidence is the bible therefore fact.

Just wanted to hear other peoples view or reaction to the debate.
[video=youtube;z6kgvhG3AkI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI[/video]
 

CroydonDog

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I didn't see the debate, but there must have been a thousand memes uploaded to 9gag following it!

I felt a bit saddened the creationism guy is an Aussie...

(On a side note, my father, who I due to arrive at my place later this morning, stayed in your town last night (at one of the caravan parks).....)
 

Hacky McAxe

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It was quite an interesting debate, but unfortunately it showed how strong ignorance can be. I disagree with the atheists that go after theists and call them idiots for believing but when a Creationist is shown masses of evidence to show that evolution is real, they usually ignore it or call it a fallacy.

Evolution is a fact. There is enough evidence to prove that evolution happened and we can even observe micro-evolution as it happens now.

The problem I get is the Creationists who will openly quote pastors and biblical passages as scientific proof of the young earth theory and many even call themselves scientists and contradict all the major tenants of science.

Science means taking a belief and attempting to disprove that belief. If enough evidence is provided to disprove that belief then it's logical to assume that the belief is wrong and start again. Creationist "scientists" take a belief and attempt to prove it ignoring anything to the contrary.


The one part that summed up the whole debate for me was when they asked what it would take to change their belief. Bill Nye said that if evidence was provided to show that he was wrong then it would change his belief. Ken Ham said that nothing could ever change his belief.
 

The DoggFather

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If we "evolved" from monkeys, why are they still around today?
 

Hacky McAxe

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If we "evolved" from monkeys, why are they still around today?
I've always loved this question. I see it fairly often and I blame those who dumb down evolution. People seem to skip the fact that we didn't evolve from the monkeys that are around today. Humans and chimps are the closest relation as both evolved from the same ancestral species. This species is extinct.
 
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The DoggFather

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Each to their own but I can't believe a big bang created everything.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Each to their own but I can't believe a big bang created everything.
Evolution and the Big Bang are two separate theories. They support each other but are not mutually exclusive. While there's enough evidence to say that evolution happened to the point where it's virtually impossible to debate against, the same can't be said about the Big Bang Theory.

There's enough evidence to say that the big bang most likely happened but not enough to be fully definitive.
 

K E

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Why is evolution fact, because scientists say so? They also said the Earth was flat....
 

Nano

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Why is evolution fact, because scientists say so? They also said the Earth was flat....
That is the beauty of science, as we move further so does it and discoveries of better/more accurate theories. Science allows us to question things and find the facts behind something in better ways over time.
 

K E

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That is the beauty of science, as we move further so does it and discoveries of better/more accurate theories. Science allows us to question things and find the facts behind something in better ways over time.
It also renders past "facts" as useless, too.
 

Nano

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It also renders past "facts" as useless, too.
That is how we humans are, we find better and more accurate things as we progress.
 

K E

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That is how we humans are, we find better and more accurate things as we progress.
We humans are flawed and so are our current theories. We will never have the answers or facts for life's most important questions. The Bible has contradictions and so does the theory of evolution. What goes for one goes for the other.
 

Rodzilla

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If we "evolved" from monkeys, why are they still around today?
if there is a creator and he is directly involved in day to day life causing everything then he is a prick
 

K E

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sort of like how new religions renders zeus as useless
I rendered him useless as I destroyed him. And I will destroy you if you cross me. (pun possibly intended. If it's funny, it was definitely intended but if it's not funny and/or lame, then it definitely wasn't intended)
 

The DoggFather

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if there is a creator and he is directly involved in day to day life causing everything then he is a prick
He is involved but has given us free will, God didn't fuk up the world, we did.
 

Hacky McAxe

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We humans flawed and so are our current theories. We will never have the answers or facts for life's most important questions. The Bible has contradictions and so does the theory of evolution. What goes for one goes for the other.
That's why we have theories and hypothesis. Flat earth was a hypothesis. Through observation the earth was believed to be flat. Then through observation and attempts to confirm the earth was flat we discovered that it was less likely that it was flat and more likely that it was round. Through constant observation and thorough testing including analyzing stages of the moon, the stars, the horizon and venturing around the world we found enough evidence to conclude that the earth is round. This is when it is no longer a hypothesis and it becomes a theory that the earth is round.

Evolution is also a theory because there is enough evidence to show that it is real and constant testing to attempt to prove it wrong has only proven it more true. That's how scientific theory works.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world or Universe, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation. This is why Gravity is considered a theory.

The good thing about science is that when a contradiction is found then science attempts to figure out why the contradiction exists. For this reason there was contradictions in evolution and contradictions appear now and then but each time they do science eventually finds a way to explain them.

The issue with the Creationist belief of a young earth is that the contradictions are too many and rather than investigating the contradictions to their belief they ignore them.
 

Hacky McAxe

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if there is a creator and he is directly involved in day to day life causing everything then he is a prick
Could be, but at the same time if you made something and it spat in your face then I doubt you'd be willing to help it out either.

I think it depends on your interpretation of the bible. If you read the old testament as actual chronological facts straight from the mouth of God then he is a prick. Ordering bears to kill children. Ordering a person to be stoned to death because they collected some wood on the Sabbath (not a euphemism). Wiping out entire villages because of their sexual preference.

If God is real, I doubt the bible is an accurate account of him/her/it.
 

Rodzilla

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He is involved but has given us free will, God didn't fuk up the world, we did.
he is involved but only in certain situations, for example when the earthquake hits in haiti its him doing it because he doesnt like voodoo

when a tornado hits middle america its just natural wind getting out of control and god didnt do it

or according to people in yemen, when something went wrong with the space shuttle and it explodes, that is gods work

but when america has created the ability to flatten yemen with a push of the button, that is human work and god was caught off guard
 

K E

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That's why we have theories and hypothesis. Flat earth was a hypothesis. Through observation the earth was believed to be flat. Then through observation and attempts to confirm the earth was flat we discovered that it was less likely that it was flat and more likely that it was round. Through constant observation and thorough testing including analyzing stages of the moon, the stars, the horizon and venturing around the world we found enough evidence to conclude that the earth is round. This is when it is no longer a hypothesis and it becomes a theory that the earth is round.

Evolution is also a theory because there is enough evidence to show that it is real and constant testing to attempt to prove it wrong has only proven it more true. That's how scientific theory works.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world or Universe, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation. This is why Gravity is considered a theory.

The good thing about science is that when a contradiction is found then science attempts to figure out why the contradiction exists. For this reason there was contradictions in evolution and contradictions appear now and then but each time they do science eventually finds a way to explain them.

The issue with the Creationist belief of a young earth is that the contradictions are too many and rather than investigating the contradictions to their belief they ignore them.
Just because you can explain your mistake, doesn't make your theory any truer or your theory as fact especially when contradictions are constant. It's all theories and what is believed to be correct at this very moment but it doesn't necessarily mean they are fact. Who's to say that in 10, 100 or even 500 years from now scientists claim they have proof that something else started life and claim the theory of evolution wrong?

Scientists will always try to prove their theories/studies/tests as correct in order to justify their beliefs and so will the people who believe in creationism. It can't be said that either side have 100% proof of anything because of the various and many contradictions. It all comes down to beliefs. It what we choose to believe and what works for us.

Humans can debate/argue until the end of time about how whatever was created but it will not achieve or prove anything.
 
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