Biggest problem with the attack

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bulldogfan1

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I know there has been plenty of threads on this, from my perspective, the biggest issue with the halves and hooker is, they do not ENGAGE the opposition defensive line. The dont force the defense to make decisions.

This attack is very very similar to the Dragons. Widdop/Mcrone/Benji (last season) were not engaging the line. That is, they were passing the ball well BEFORE the line.

This makes it easy meat for the defense and that is why we struggle big time in the opposition red zone and that is why the Dragons also struggled big time last season.

Look at it objectively.

5-10 metres out. The ball gets played. Lichaa either shovels it out to Mbye or Reynolds, these 2 almost immediately pass it to Morris or Lee depending on which side.

Its as if Lichaa, Reynolds and Mbye are shirking there main responsibility. They pass the ball and tell there outside men "do your best". Giving them absolutely nothing to work with, because they did nothing themselves.

Look at out ONLY try last night. Did Reynolds do anything at all to CREATE that try? No. He just shoveled it out to Lee. It was Lee's individual brilliance that CREATED the try. He just burned Cheyse Blair, thats what CREATED the try, not Reynolds.

In contrast, look at people like Foran, Norman, Milford, Moylan etc etc. These players take the ball right to the line with 2 hands on the ball with a threat to pas. When you do this, you are ENGAGING the opposition to make a decision. It is as this point opportunities come up.

Now, why dont our halves, hooker do this? Is it Des? Is it the halves? Are the halves SCARED to take the ball to the line, because when you do and you pass, your body is exposed. You hear Andrew Johns say it requires bravery.

Lichaa also needs to engage the defense close to the line.

The bottom line with the attack is, we are not forcing the defense to make decisions. All the passing is BEFORE the line, NOT AT THE LINE. This is the same as the Dragons. I dont know if this is a coaching issue, a player issue, player bravery, i dont know.

Thoughts?
 

CrittaMagic69

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How does a half engage the line when his forwards aren't their in support? From memory our halves took 15 runs last night and not one time can i remember them having an option available. They can't play at the line with the way the team is setup. Anyway we try to play around teams and not through them, that is why we see this hot potato sideways shit.

Things might change as the season goes on, but atm it is very hard to change because we have played a certain way for so long that it is basically natural. I swear at one stage Tolman shit himself as the pass went behind him thinking it was for him like in previous seasons haha
 

Interestingg

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Before every play, the good halves like JT, Cronk and even 21 year old Ash Taylor tells his teammates where to stand and run. Our halves can't take control like this for 2 reasons.
1) the teams structures don't allow it
2) they are both shit players.

Blame Hasler till the cows come home, but he is coaching a dud spine (which is kinda his and Crushers fault anyway).
 

Interestingg

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I would bet my house on the fact that if Mbye was not fast, he would be nowhere near first grade. And likewise, if Reynolds had less passion, but exactly the same skill set, he'd be lucky to start for Auburn Warriors.
 

CrittaMagic69

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Before every play, the good halves like JT, Cronk and even 21 year old Ash Taylor tells his teammates where to stand and run. Our halves can't take control like this for 2 reasons.
1) the teams structures don't allow it
2) they are both shit players.

Blame Hasler till the cows come home, but he is coaching a dud spine (which is kinda his and Crushers fault anyway).
That's not entirely true. JT and co don't just decide where x players stands or runs as they practive the plays about a million times at training. The players around them already know what they need to do, the halves jjst need to pick the best options and the players around them need to be ready to react to it. Last season i saw Tamou countless times play the ball and then sprint into position for following play to run a line and provide an option. I have never seen a dogs player do that in recent years.
 

Boxer

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Why are people still judging our attack ?
We had niagara falls at belmore what do expect.
 

Interestingg

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That's not entirely true. JT and co don't just decide where x players stands or runs as they practive the plays about a million times at training. The players around them already know what they need to do, the halves jjst need to pick the best options and the players around them need to be ready to react to it. Last season i saw Tamou countless times play the ball and then sprint into position for following play to run a line and provide an option. I have never seen a dogs player do that in recent years.
You just elaborated on my first point. But JT definitely still guides them on nearly every single play in the attacking 20. Watch him pointing and screaming. Like I said we don't have the same structures and even if we did, our halves wouldn't be able to kick/pass to the right places to take advantage of any set plays. I'm still in shock at the attempted chip kick Reynolds tried in the first half that went 2 metres high and 3 metres backwards.
 

pupmichelle

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Paul Kent mentioned on NRL 360 this week that Nathan Cleary definitely wants to play under his old man, when Ivan gets his next gig as an NRL first grade coach.
 

OITENTA-E-NOVE

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Paul Kent mentioned on NRL 360 this week that Nathan Cleary definitely wants to play under his old man, when Ivan gets his next gig as an NRL first grade coach.
hes not off contract for another couple seasons and he removed his father-son get out clause from his new contract so cant see him following his dad anywhere
 

silverelvis69

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I know there has been plenty of threads on this, from my perspective, the biggest issue with the halves and hooker is, they do not ENGAGE the opposition defensive line. The dont force the defense to make decisions.

This attack is very very similar to the Dragons. Widdop/Mcrone/Benji (last season) were not engaging the line. That is, they were passing the ball well BEFORE the line.

This makes it easy meat for the defense and that is why we struggle big time in the opposition red zone and that is why the Dragons also struggled big time last season.

Look at it objectively.

5-10 metres out. The ball gets played. Lichaa either shovels it out to Mbye or Reynolds, these 2 almost immediately pass it to Morris or Lee depending on which side.

Its as if Lichaa, Reynolds and Mbye are shirking there main responsibility. They pass the ball and tell there outside men "do your best". Giving them absolutely nothing to work with, because they did nothing themselves.

Look at out ONLY try last night. Did Reynolds do anything at all to CREATE that try? No. He just shoveled it out to Lee. It was Lee's individual brilliance that CREATED the try. He just burned Cheyse Blair, thats what CREATED the try, not Reynolds.

In contrast, look at people like Foran, Norman, Milford, Moylan etc etc. These players take the ball right to the line with 2 hands on the ball with a threat to pas. When you do this, you are ENGAGING the opposition to make a decision. It is as this point opportunities come up.

Now, why dont our halves, hooker do this? Is it Des? Is it the halves? Are the halves SCARED to take the ball to the line, because when you do and you pass, your body is exposed. You hear Andrew Johns say it requires bravery.

Lichaa also needs to engage the defense close to the line.

The bottom line with the attack is, we are not forcing the defense to make decisions. All the passing is BEFORE the line, NOT AT THE LINE. This is the same as the Dragons. I dont know if this is a coaching issue, a player issue, player bravery, i dont know.

Thoughts?
Our line speed is bad
Mbye needs to move away from the halves! Shit kicking game
Lichaa show big improvements
Tolman is useless and we need a forward that can bend the line- go hard for forward( cant rem his name- the one whomwon dally m)
 

_G-Dog_

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Yes they dont engage but we dont have a halfback either.. very frustrating.. its a simple fix really
 

CrittaMagic69

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You just elaborated on my first point. But JT definitely still guides them on nearly every single play in the attacking 20. Watch him pointing and screaming. Like I said we don't have the same structures and even if we did, our halves wouldn't be able to kick/pass to the right places to take advantage of any set plays. I'm still in shock at the attempted chip kick Reynolds tried in the first half that went 2 metres high and 3 metres backwards.
Obviously JT guides them, he calls pretty much every attacking play for the Cowboys so he needs to make sure everyone is positioned and ready for him to run the play. It is unreasonable to think our halves could get close to that at this stage after they have played a certain way for so many seasons. Des has just created a mess for us and it is going to take a while to clean it all up with him still here.
 

Packy

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It all starts with Service from dummy. it is slow and not decisive. From there runners aren't confident of their roles. Hooker should be our first priority.
 

Kila R Ralai

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Paul Kent mentioned on NRL 360 this week that Nathan Cleary definitely wants to play under his old man, when Ivan gets his next gig as an NRL first grade coach.
Hint...Hint...Dib/Castle.
hes not off contract for another couple seasons and he removed his father-son get out clause from his new contract so cant see him following his dad anywhere
 

KLil

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That's not entirely true. JT and co don't just decide where x players stands or runs as they practive the plays about a million times at training. The players around them already know what they need to do, the halves jjst need to pick the best options and the players around them need to be ready to react to it. Last season i saw Tamou countless times play the ball and then sprint into position for following play to run a line and provide an option. I have never seen a dogs player do that in recent years.
That's correct... The pass is only as good as the run BUT at the end of the day when blokes aren't running lines somebody needs to step up and start telling blokes to start hitting gaps and that's usually the ball players and coaching staff.

The biggest problem at the dogs is EVERYBODY is flat footed and nobody wants to run. E.g klemmer standing 2m away from lichaa when he should be coming off the back fence.
 

jasonsmith1994

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THE NRL SHOULD BAN THE DECOY DARREN LOCKYER BACKLINE PLAY THAT EVERY TEAM USES EVERY PLAY,SO TO ANSWER THE QUESTION WE NEED MORE CREATIVE HALVES OR FOR A DUMMY HALF THAT RUNS
 
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