Are the "Ultra's" of politics loosing their appeal?

[KambahOne]

Kevin Andrews loses seat to former commando after Liberal preselection battle

Kevin Andrews becomes the first sitting Victorian Liberal MP to be ousted by members in more than 20 years.

www.abc.net.au

Veteran Victorian Liberal MP Kevin Andrews has lost preselection for the federal seat of Menzies in Melbourne.

He was defeated by commando-turned-barrister Keith Wolahan at a preselection ballot of members on Sunday.

Mr Andrews had been backed by senior MPs including Treasurer Josh Frydenberg, and the defeat is being viewed by some Liberals as a rejection of their tactics.

He also had the support of former prime ministers John Howard and Tony Abbott.

Mr Andrews is the first sitting Victorian Liberal MP to be ousted by members in more than two decades.


Tony Abbot, now Kevin Andrews two pillars of the Liberal ultra right both gone while the greens are also loosing voters on the other side of the spectrum.

Are people heading to the middle to become swing voters? I certainly hope so as swing voters keep political parties in the middle where they do more for the most.

I hope the extremes of the left and the right are abandoned by more and more as people finally see those positions while opposite, are fundamentally the same.

Politics needs to go back to being boring.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I hope the extremes of the left and the right are abandoned by more and more as people finally see those positions while opposite, are fundamentally the same.

I've heard so many different variations of the far left. From my interactions with you, you seem to be balanced enough. Can you tell me what far left is

 

[KambahOne]

I've heard so many different variations of the far left. From my interactions with you, you seem to be balanced enough. Can you tell me what far left is

My interpretation only, but I would consider ANTIFA far left. I've seen them be the aggressors and get violent. Some of the Greens policies are fanciful to say the least. I don't see socialism as the big boogyman, more of a balancing mechanism for capitalism, note I didn't say against capitalism as I'm not against capitalism. I just think it needs balancing and I think we have that here in Australia. Medicare is a socialist concept, so is taxation, mandatory superannuation, the PBS, Welfare etc, I like that capitalism funds those socialist concepts more here in than in most western countries. That said they are constantly under attack from farkers like the IPA, the HR Nicholls Society, Murdoch, the BCA, all the usual ultra right greed driven pricks. But again those concepts need scrutiny or their costs will exceed their benefit and that's when they become vulnerable to those attacks so I'm big on compliance.

I detest the arrogance of the right. They all, and I mean all talk with an undeserved authority that just stands my hackles up. A leftie will try and convince you, usually through emotions and that doesn't work on me either as my emotions are perfectly balanced between my devout love of the Roosters and my seething hatred of lol@souffs. But as soon as a rightie begins to talk up goes the red mist and I rarely hear a thing.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is I'd be just as happy kneeing a conservative in the balls as I would be headbutting a feminist.

 

[wendog33]

Kevin Andrews loses seat to former commando after Liberal preselection battle

Kevin Andrews becomes the first sitting Victorian Liberal MP to be ousted by members in more than 20 years.

www.abc.net.au

Veteran Victorian Liberal MP Kevin Andrews has lost preselection for the federal seat of Menzies in Melbourne.

He was defeated by commando-turned-barrister Keith Wolahan at a preselection ballot of members on Sunday.

Mr Andrews had been backed by senior MPs including Treasurer Josh Frydenberg, and the defeat is being viewed by some Liberals as a rejection of their tactics.

He also had the support of former prime ministers John Howard and Tony Abbott.

Mr Andrews is the first sitting Victorian Liberal MP to be ousted by members in more than two decades.


Tony Abbot, now Kevin Andrews two pillars of the Liberal ultra right both gone while the greens are also loosing voters on the other side of the spectrum.

Are people heading to the middle to become swing voters? I certainly hope so as swing voters keep political parties in the middle where they do more for the most.

I hope the extremes of the left and the right are abandoned by more and more as people finally see those positions while opposite, are fundamentally the same.

Politics needs to go back to being boring.

Hope so. No place for one issue (kinda) troglodytes in our ever evolving society.


We have too many bland Hillsong "plants" tho infiltrating the Libs by the looks of it

 

[CaptainJackson]

My interpretation only, but I would consider ANTIFA far left. I've seen them be the aggressors and get violent. Some of the Greens policies are fanciful to say the least. I don't see socialism as the big boogyman, more of a balancing mechanism for capitalism, note I didn't say against capitalism as I'm not against capitalism. I just think it needs balancing and I think we have that here in Australia. Medicare is a socialist concept, so is taxation, mandatory superannuation, the PBS, Welfare etc, I like that capitalism funds those socialist concepts more here in than in most western countries. That said they are constantly under attack from farkers like the IPA, the HR Nicholls Society, Murdoch, the BCA, all the usual ultra right greed driven pricks. But again those concepts need scrutiny or their costs will exceed their benefit and that's when they become vulnerable to those attacks so I'm big on compliance.

I detest the arrogance of the right. They all, and I mean all talk with an undeserved authority that just stands my hackles up. A leftie will try and convince you, usually through emotions and that doesn't work on me either as my emotions are perfectly balanced between my devout love of the Roosters and my seething hatred of lol@souffs. But as soon as a rightie begins to talk up goes the red mist and I rarely hear a thing.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is I'd be just as happy kneeing a conservative in the balls as I would be headbutting a feminist.

Love your analysis, especially of red mist lol

I guess the question I'm asking is what traits of say ANTIFA (or greens) is it that makes them far left. And what traits that aren't reactionary ones but staple traits ?

Anyone is welcome to answer these

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Love your analysis, especially of red mist lol

I guess the question I'm asking is what traits of say ANTIFA (or greens) is it that makes them far left. And what traits that aren't reactionary ones but staple traits ?

Anyone is welcome to answer these

My definition of far left would be anyone who wants to completely abolish Capitalism, usually someone who will use violence or terrorism to enact that stance.

I wouldn't say Antifa is far left, but there are people who are far left that declare themselves followers of the Antifa movement.

 

[The DoggFather]

What do you classify me as? I don't fall for this left v right bullshit. I hate all government elements that don't help the people they are supposed to serve.

I think every politician is an egotistical, corrupt **** that only want to serve their bank accounts.

I love to laugh at people who defend their wing and poke holes at the other wing, even though their wing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I am amazed and saddened that even educated, good people fall for the wing bullshit.

 

[Cook]

What do you classify me as? I don't fall for this left v right bullshit. I hate all government elements that don't help the people they are supposed to serve.

I think every politician is an egotistical, corrupt **** that only want to serve their bank accounts.

I love to laugh at people who defend their wing and poke holes at the other wing, even though their wing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I am amazed and saddened that even educated, good people fall for the wing bullshit.

To me it’s there sport. So they’ll defend there team no matter what. Like the footy follower who always complains about forward passes and shit

 

[CaptainJackson]

My definition of far left would be anyone who wants to completely abolish Capitalism, usually someone who will use violence or terrorism to enact that stance.

I wouldn't say Antifa is far left, but there are people who are far left that declare themselves followers of the Antifa movement.

So the defining factor is violence to achieve those means?

And agree about Antifa, it's made up of people with very different beliefs. Depending on a specific view, even conservative Lincoln Project could be classified as Antifa.

 

[CaptainJackson]

What do you classify me as? I don't fall for this left v right bullshit. I hate all government elements that don't help the people they are supposed to serve.

I think every politician is an egotistical, corrupt **** that only want to serve their bank accounts.

I love to laugh at people who defend their wing and poke holes at the other wing, even though their wing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I am amazed and saddened that even educated, good people fall for the wing bullshit.

Your social aspect is more down the middle bro, you have some leave people alone beliefs and some conservative beliefs. Your economic principles I have no idea, we've never discussed that.

I also don't think you're being fair on politicians, there are many (of either side) that go into it to have their view/stance/way represented but due to the nature of politics, they are forced to play the political game to achieve the desired outcome. For example, I have the utmost respect for Bernie Sanders as a politican for the people, with genuine interests for the people, but he has had to play the political game, i.e. his backing of Hillary Clinton after he lost the primaries for 2016. He disagrees with Hillary on many many levels and since 2016 elections, Hillary has done nothing but bad mouth Bernie Sanders (so the two are very much at loggerheads), but the alternative was Donald Trump, so Bernie had to play the political game and back Hillary.

 

[wigum]

What do you classify me as? I don't fall for this left v right bullshit. I hate all government elements that don't help the people they are supposed to serve.

I think every politician is an egotistical, corrupt **** that only want to serve their bank accounts.

I love to laugh at people who defend their wing and poke holes at the other wing, even though their wing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I am amazed and saddened that even educated, good people fall for the wing bullshit.

A person with common sense who has better things in life than to focus on convincing others about their own personal political stance

 

[Shanked]

its kinda why i stay out of political discussion. it's just toxic coversation. I watch, listen and vote. dont need to get into a shouting match with a tosser who has no interest in being civil

 

[CaptainJackson]

@Hacky McAxe how would you define Liberty?

Both sides have the same end goal of "Liberty" with some minor differences in the end results but both sides have vastly different pathways to liberty. So which side do we attach liberty to?

 

[DinkumDog]

how would you define Liberty?

 

[DinkumDog]

Veteran Victorian Liberal MP Kevin Andrews has lost preselection for the federal seat of Menzies in Melbourne.

He was defeated by commando-turned-barrister Keith Wolahan at a preselection ballot of members on Sunday.

Mr Andrews is the first sitting Victorian Liberal MP to be ousted by members in more than two decades.

Probably for the best.
Kev needs to look after his health.
He had a quintuple charisma bypass 20 years ago .

 

[Hacky McAxe]

So the defining factor is violence to achieve those means?

And agree about Antifa, it's made up of people with very different beliefs. Depending on a specific view, even conservative Lincoln Project could be classified as Antifa.

I wouldn't say that violence is the defining factor as you can have far left without violence, but extreme left definitely. Hence the "extreme"

It could just come down to someone who is not necessarily violent but will enact other methods. Be that cyber attacks, or just smear campaigns of extreme anti-capitalism or sometimes anarchism. Basically just left of Communism.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

What do you classify me as? I don't fall for this left v right bullshit. I hate all government elements that don't help the people they are supposed to serve.

I think every politician is an egotistical, corrupt **** that only want to serve their bank accounts.

I love to laugh at people who defend their wing and poke holes at the other wing, even though their wing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I am amazed and saddened that even educated, good people fall for the wing bullshit.

Welcome to the Centre. Come join me on the fence.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

@Hacky McAxe how would you define Liberty?

Both sides have the same end goal of "Liberty" with some minor differences in the end results but both sides have vastly different pathways to liberty. So which side do we attach liberty to?

I don't think you can attach Liberty to either side. It's not really a left/right concept. It's the up/down concept. Libertarian VS Authoritarian. Liberty being either right wing Classical Liberal, or something like the left wing Social Democracy.

The right choosing freedom of the individual by removing restrictions (and taxes), while the left provides freedom through support for those who oppressed or can't afford to enjoy freedoms.

Some would say that the left wing freedom will choke Capitalism due to a lack of economic freedom. Some say that right wing freedom provides freedom for the rich over all else.

In the end the horseshoe theory could be an actual thing. Two different paths for the same goal. But not the same result.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I don't think you can attach Liberty to either side. It's not really a left/right concept. It's the up/down concept. Libertarian VS Authoritarian. Liberty being either right wing Classical Liberal, or something like the left wing Social Democracy.

The right choosing freedom of the individual by removing restrictions (and taxes), while the left provides freedom through support for those who oppressed or can't afford to enjoy freedoms.

Some would say that the left wing freedom will choke Capitalism due to a lack of economic freedom. Some say that right wing freedom provides freedom for the rich over all else.

In the end the horseshoe theory could be an actual thing. Two different paths for the same goal. But not the same result.

Forgot about that given both sides claim ownership of it

 

[KambahOne]

What do you classify me as? I don't fall for this left v right bullshit. I hate all government elements that don't help the people they are supposed to serve.

I think every politician is an egotistical, corrupt **** that only want to serve their bank accounts.

I love to laugh at people who defend their wing and poke holes at the other wing, even though their wing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I am amazed and saddened that even educated, good people fall for the wing bullshit.

100% agree mate, I'd classify you as a middle of the run arsehole.

Sorry it's getting close to footy season so I thought I'd start throwing a few barbs to get into the mood.