• Be cool and Register to set your username and display picture get the full features of the site. Talk Bulldogs NRL News, match reviews, live score, ladder, injuries, player signings and team performance.

Opinion 2022 thoughts...

kap123

Kennel Regular
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
242
Reaction score
294
Just doing some rough analysis and emphasizing rough, but we have 14 players contracted for 2022 (in brackets is salary approximation). Averillo (300), JAC (550), Cotric (650), DWZ (500), Burton (500), Flanagan (400), Thompson (750), Hetherington (250), Elliott (400), RFM (300), Jackson (600), Waddell (200), Wakeham (150) and Stimson (150).

That total's about 5.6 mil, leaving us with around 4 mil to get a hooker, strike centre and 14 depth signings. Assuming it's B Smith/McInness and Staggs/Crichton that's around 1.5 mil for both. so that is a bit over 2.5 mil to sign 14 players. Acknowledging many of these will be around the 100k mark, I think this may reduce our chances to keep guys like Doorey, Topine or Schoupp if they have breakout years this year which will be disappointing.

Teams like Manly have 3 players on 1 million per season so if they can get around it I am sure we can.

Thoughts?
 

Spoonman84

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
15,447
Reaction score
21,482
Hooker is essential and the number one problem that we need to fix but if Cotric fires at centre I don’t think we should be splashing out big coin for a another centre. I’d prefer to buy a decent NRL standard centre and invest that Crichton/Staggs money into other areas of the team. We are right on the edge of having too much cap invested in the outside backs and another big money signing would tip us over the edge. If one of the junior back rowers don’t establish themselves over the next year I think we need to look for a big tackle busting second rower.
 

TwinTurbo

Kennel Addict
Gilded
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
3,942
Reaction score
3,044
Condensing it down, it depends on what you mean by "depth";
14 depth signings.
No long term successful team can have only 16 (30 - 14 = 16) true NRL level players, we probably need 19 to 21 at around that level to cover injuries, SOO and International duties plus suspensions if any. In my terminology that means ~10 "depth" players, being players on the way up, players on the way down (but their experience is needed) and journeymen.

Go Dogs
 

boggie23

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
5,915
Reaction score
2,531
I think the best thing is we can finally remove the second lot of deadwood and overpaid players end of this year. I was saying it all along that is wasnt jus the war chest for 2020 but we have pretty much the same situation at 2021.

The good thing is we do have some great talent in the ranks now moving forward.

I'd only be looking at keeping Antoni and Ogden (assuming they continue their development and fit in with Barrets gameplan). Id maybe throw a bone to Okunbor but we are talking about 200-250k range no more. And Id keep either JMK or Chris Smith only on a utility contract (again no more then 200-250k). JMK has shown he can excel coming off the bench for 15-20 mins a game with his speed and footwork. If we can keep him then I dont see a space for Chris Smith who I actually like as a player (reminds me a bit of Tim Browne who I also liked).

Thats all Id keep, meaning Hoppa, Lewis, katoa, napa, Meaney, Critchon are all let go. That should open up atleast 2 million which should allow us to get a good hooker (thinking B Smith, Mcinnins, probably out of play for Clarke in UK) and we should be ok (maybe 1 more mobile prop). Zelezniak is a player Id try to move, shame we extended and upgraded him last year.

Best case scenario for 2022

1. Averillo (assuming he can transition into a top level fullback)
2. DWZ
3. Cotric
4. (either a up and comer or might be in the market, hoppa only stay on a salary of 350k)
5. Jac
6. Burton
7. Flanno
8. Thompson
9. (looks like we are chasing someone)
10. Atoni
11. Jackson
12. (any number of back rowers on the squad, Waddell, RFM, Stimson)
13. Elliot

Honestly not a bad looking team. Hopefully Wakeham gets game time with Flanno instead of Lewis for 21. Can see many teams to compete with our speed and skill which I can say I dont remember the last time I could say that (even our 04 squad had Hazem and Utai as wingers, hardly a speedy backline).
 

FaceBreaker

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
6,569
Reaction score
1,102
So we spend over a million a year on two wingers yet we still have a dud fullback.

This is the reason we won’t win a comp.

Really hoping adocarr can develop into a fullback.
 

Spoonman84

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
15,447
Reaction score
21,482
So we spend over a million a year on two wingers yet we still have a dud fullback.

This is the reason we won’t win a comp.

Really hoping adocarr can develop into a fullback.
We just have to hope like hell some of these positional switches work or we will be in a but of trouble.

Cotric to centre and Avo or JAC at fullback just have to work now we have shelled out the money.
 

Bulldogsteve

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
1,240
Reaction score
1,771
I'm really hopping that Aaron Schoupp can force his way into First Grade....This kid is something special. If he does I can see him being Hoppas replacement at centre.
schoupp and Doorey need a good year in reserve grade and if good enough they can come into the squad after june 30, same with Tapine. That way we dont waste top30 spots. Getting conditioned week in week out in reserve grade will be good for their games.
 

TwinTurbo

Kennel Addict
Gilded
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
3,942
Reaction score
3,044
I think the best thing is we can finally remove the second lot of deadwood and overpaid players end of this year. I was saying it all along that is wasnt jus the war chest for 2020 but we have pretty much the same situation at 2021.

The good thing is we do have some great talent in the ranks now moving forward.

I'd only be looking at keeping Antoni and Ogden (assuming they continue their development and fit in with Barrets gameplan). Id maybe throw a bone to Okunbor but we are talking about 200-250k range no more. And Id keep either JMK or Chris Smith only on a utility contract (again no more then 200-250k). JMK has shown he can excel coming off the bench for 15-20 mins a game with his speed and footwork. If we can keep him then I dont see a space for Chris Smith who I actually like as a player (reminds me a bit of Tim Browne who I also liked).

Thats all Id keep, meaning Hoppa, Lewis, katoa, napa, Meaney, Critchon are all let go. That should open up atleast 2 million which should allow us to get a good hooker (thinking B Smith, Mcinnins, probably out of play for Clarke in UK) and we should be ok (maybe 1 more mobile prop). Zelezniak is a player Id try to move, shame we extended and upgraded him last year.

Best case scenario for 2022

1. Averillo (assuming he can transition into a top level fullback)
2. DWZ
3. Cotric
4. (either a up and comer or might be in the market, hoppa only stay on a salary of 350k)
5. Jac
6. Burton
7. Flanno
8. Thompson
9. (looks like we are chasing someone)
10. Atoni
11. Jackson
12. (any number of back rowers on the squad, Waddell, RFM, Stimson)
13. Elliot

Honestly not a bad looking team. Hopefully Wakeham gets game time with Flanno instead of Lewis for 21. Can see many teams to compete with our speed and skill which I can say I dont remember the last time I could say that (even our 04 squad had Hazem and Utai as wingers, hardly a speedy backline).
Apologies in advance if this seems harsh;
You left out 14/15/16/17/18 and 19, what NRL level players are you aiming to have to fill those positions? That are better and cheaper than JMK, Katoa, Meaney and Crichton (who is on the minimum, so there is no such thing as "cheaper" than him).

Then you need players 20/21 they will also be required to cover injuries, SOO and International call ups plus suspensions if any. To be competitive we can't have $100k players in all of the 14 to 21 spots and even if they were $100k players that's still $800k spent.

In the backline you have 4 players with less than 2 years experience at NRL level, seriously that's asking for trouble when the game is on the line. And the 2 most experienced players are on the wings, the furthest from the play. It may look like a skilful back line but it's severely lacking for NRL level competition experience.

You have also dodged the Jackson playing wide problem and avoided even naming another complimentary back rower, and that's in the 13, let alone the back rowers on the bench and the utility (if we have one) or prop rotation.

Overall looks like a pretty terrible "best case scenario" as it lacks bench players, has no season coverage and most of all has back line that is full of inexperienced players at NRL level, some of whom may not have it in them physically or mentally to even play at that level week in week out.

Go Dogs
 

Dognacious

Administrator
Staff member
Premium Member
Gilded
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
18,330
Reaction score
3,443
I really hope though we can snag Burton for 2021. Moreso than JAC. What we need most asap is a good halves combination. JAC would get more chances in 2022 once our halves had a year together to gel.

2022 spine?:

Fullback: JAC
Halves: Burton / Flanagan
Hooker: B Smith

Thats a big improvement. 3 x 2020 grand finalists, and 1 x 2020 semi finalist
 

Bulldogsteve

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
1,240
Reaction score
1,771
Condensing it down, it depends on what you mean by "depth";

No long term successful team can have only 16 (30 - 14 = 16) true NRL level players, we probably need 19 to 21 at around that level to cover injuries, SOO and International duties plus suspensions if any. In my terminology that means ~10 "depth" players, being players on the way up, players on the way down (but their experience is needed) and journeymen.

Go Dogs
manly this year was a classic example.
 

dogwhisperer

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
2,869
Reaction score
3,626
Condensing it down, it depends on what you mean by "depth";

No long term successful team can have only 16 (30 - 14 = 16) true NRL level players, we probably need 19 to 21 at around that level to cover injuries, SOO and International duties plus suspensions if any. In my terminology that means ~10 "depth" players, being players on the way up, players on the way down (but their experience is needed) and journeymen.

Go Dogs
So in other words if it all works out we’ll be able to scream out Go Dogs from the stands long term
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
6,357
Reaction score
4,371
Apologies in advance if this seems harsh;
You left out 14/15/16/17/18 and 19, what NRL level players are you aiming to have to fill those positions? That are better and cheaper than JMK, Katoa, Meaney and Crichton (who is on the minimum, so there is no such thing as "cheaper" than him).

Then you need players 20/21 they will also be required to cover injuries, SOO and International call ups plus suspensions if any. To be competitive we can't have $100k players in all of the 14 to 21 spots and even if they were $100k players that's still $800k spent.

In the backline you have 4 players with less than 2 years experience at NRL level, seriously that's asking for trouble when the game is on the line. And the 2 most experienced players are on the wings, the furthest from the play. It may look like a skilful back line but it's severely lacking for NRL level competition experience.

You have also dodged the Jackson playing wide problem and avoided even naming another complimentary back rower, and that's in the 13, let alone the back rowers on the bench and the utility (if we have one) or prop rotation.

Overall looks like a pretty terrible "best case scenario" as it lacks bench players, has no season coverage and most of all has back line that is full of inexperienced players at NRL level, some of whom may not have it in them physically or mentally to even play at that level week in week out.

Go Dogs
Best case scenario
1. Averillo
2. JAC
3. Cotric
4. Hopoate/Schoupp
5. DWZ/Okunbor
6. Burton
7. Flanagan
8. Thompson
9. Smith
10. Leniu
11. Jackson
12. RFM/Topine/Doorey
13. Elliott

14. Waddell/JMK
15. Hetherington
16. Atoni/Ogden
17. Stimson

That'll leave just under ~200k for 18-30 imo.
 

Spoonman84

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
15,447
Reaction score
21,482
Best case scenario
1. Averillo
2. JAC
3. Cotric
4. Hopoate/Schoupp
5. DWZ/Okunbor
6. Burton
7. Flanagan
8. Thompson
9. Smith
10. Leniu
11. Jackson
12. RFM/Topine/Doorey
13. Elliott

14. Waddell/JMK
15. Hetherington
16. Atoni/Ogden
17. Stimson

That'll leave just under ~200k for 18-30 imo.
Just looking at that back 3 and it’s a little concerning how we will get early tackle metres out of our own end. You almost have to have Okonbur there similar to how the Storm had Vunivalu.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
6,357
Reaction score
4,371
Just looking at that back 3 and it’s a little concerning how we will get early tackle metres out of our own end. You almost have to have Okonbur there similar to how the Storm had Vunivalu.
I think DWZ is a player we should try and shop around (I mean I hope he comes good too) but we've brought his brother in around the team so maybe that isn't the plan. If I'm just looking at the player and what we need I agree with Okunbor. I just don't think it'll go that way due to DWZ's pay packet. I guess he has leadership qualities too. DWZ's contracted until the end of 2022.
 

Bulldogsteve

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
1,240
Reaction score
1,771
Best case scenario
1. Averillo
2. JAC
3. Cotric
4. Hopoate/Schoupp
5. DWZ/Okunbor
6. Burton
7. Flanagan
8. Thompson
9. Smith
10. Leniu
11. Jackson
12. RFM/Topine/Doorey
13. Elliott

14. Waddell/JMK
15. Hetherington
16. Atoni/Ogden
17. Stimson

That'll leave just under ~200k for 18-30 imo.
if we happen to get Leniu he will play 13 like JT. Elliot will play on a edge
 

Kempsey Dog

Previously Prison Mike
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
11,186
Reaction score
7,279
I'm really hopping that Aaron Schoupp can force his way into First Grade....This kid is something special. If he does I can see him being Hoppas replacement at centre.
100% absolutely no need to chase Crichton or Staggs imo
 

Kempsey Dog

Previously Prison Mike
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
11,186
Reaction score
7,279
I think DWZ is a player we should try and shop around (I mean I hope he comes good too) but we've brought his brother in around the team so maybe that isn't the plan. If I'm just looking at the player and what we need I agree with Okunbor. I just don't think it'll go that way due to DWZ's pay packet. I guess he has leadership qualities too. DWZ's contracted until the end of 2022.
He will be around, he's on good money and he won't get that elsewhere ... He'd be foolish to move on as much as I'd love him too
 
Top