- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 25,208
- Reaction score
- 19,656
You don't know what race means?Hi @Freakzilla, respectfully, define "race" for us.
You don't know what race means?Hi @Freakzilla, respectfully, define "race" for us.
I'm trying to understand the sense you are using the word "race".You don't know what race means?
The other poster compared not making a cake for a gay marriage to someone not being served for being black.I'm trying to understand the sense you are using the word "race".
That's cool, but can you define "race" ?The other poster compared not making a cake for a gay marriage to someone not being served for being black.
No one should be forced to make a cake with 2 blokes on it if it against their religion to do so.
Lol, what's with the 3rd degree about race? I don't have a special definitionfor it that others don't.That's cool, but can you define "race" ?
Sexual preference can change, but you can't choose to change it. You can't choose to like a different sex.Comparing sexual preference to race is idiotic. You can change your sexual preference, you can't change your race.
I rest my case.he worked on sunday and should be put to death
I disagree about choosiing to be gay or not. Religion wasn't even being mentioned.Sexual preference can change, but you can't choose to change it. You can't choose to like a different sex.
You can choose your religion though.
I tend to support freedom of association. Let the market decide it.I disagree about choosiing to be gay or not. Religion wasn't even being mentioned.
Anyway it's all irrelevant. The point is you can't force people to do things against their religion.
Not serving anyone who wants to buy what you've already made is wrong but you can't force them to make cakes with 2 men or 2 women on it.
Whilst I agree from a LEGAL perspective, it appears he did nothing wrong.Another reminder: Folau did absolutely nothing wrong.
It's the same thing as supporting them. You aren't doing anything gay but you're supporting them by doing something that the faith stands against.I tend to support freedom of association. Let the market decide it.
But I can't remember which book in the Bible said, "thou shalt not make cakes for gay dudes"
Here is what you need to understand.I tend to support freedom of association. Let the market decide it.
But I can't remember which book in the Bible said, "thou shalt not make cakes for gay dudes"
Well there you go, I couldn't have put it better myself. Well said.Here is what you need to understand.
The cake will be part of a ceremony, of which as Christians/Muslims/Jews, this is against their respective faiths. By you involving yourself with it (ie - making a cake), you are condoning the action, of which they believe is a sin. You may not understand religion, you may detest it - but they believe it. For example - I may disagree with ones stance that they, even though born a man, they believe that they are a woman. But they can choose to believe so, and I will continue to disagree - but I am not stopping them from living there life. We can all be against someones lifestyle choices (and I am not saying sexual preference is a choice - but the freedom to marry is a choice), and that also means we do not need to celebrate them.
If you are morally against something, and you stand to lose from it (these people are losing sales), then they have every right to conscientiously object. At the end of the day, either someones' feelings will be hurt, or one's morals trampled. I will never allow my morals to be trampled if it is something I am passionate about.
I hope that clarifies if to for you
I've always found it a mixed thing. I support freedom of association, being that any person should be able to choose who they sell to as long as it doesn't cause a larger problem. For example, as long as there's another baker willing to help then a baker should be able to choose to refuse to make the cake.Here is what you need to understand.
The cake will be part of a ceremony, of which as Christians/Muslims/Jews, this is against their respective faiths. By you involving yourself with it (ie - making a cake), you are condoning the action, of which they believe is a sin. You may not understand religion, you may detest it - but they believe it. For example - I may disagree with ones stance that they, even though born a man, they believe that they are a woman. But they can choose to believe so, and I will continue to disagree - but I am not stopping them from living there life. We can all be against someones lifestyle choices (and I am not saying sexual preference is a choice - but the freedom to marry is a choice), and that also means we do not need to celebrate them.
If you are morally against something, and you stand to lose from it (these people are losing sales), then they have every right to conscientiously object. At the end of the day, either someones' feelings will be hurt, or one's morals trampled. I will never allow my morals to be trampled if it is something I am passionate about.
I hope that clarifies if to for you
It's not about them choosing to be gay or straight, it's about them as gay people choosing to get married - that's the difference. We don't have something against people because they are gay. There are a lot of gay people who I work with who I respect and vice versa. There are gay people involved in their religious institutions who chose not to get married because it's against their religion.I've always found it a mixed thing. I support freedom of association, being that any person should be able to choose who they sell to as long as it doesn't cause a larger problem. For example, as long as there's another baker willing to help then a baker should be able to choose to refuse to make the cake.
That said, it's literally no different to a person refusing to serve someone of a certain skin colour. I think that's the main problem with the cake situation and with what Folau did. It's not about what they say or do, but it's about the underlying meaning.
In each instance the stance is that, "I should be free to do what I want because they chose to be that way". Which is complete bullshit. No one chooses to be gay or straight. It's just what they are. So you can understand why they take offence when they are treated like someone who decided to be different.
But I also understand it from the religious perspective. When it comes to faith vs facts, a truly religious person will take faith over evidence. And they will support their beliefs over what society tells them.